The Italian overrun tactic

[Driel310]

I have to agree in the two games we played till decisive victory so far, the Italian proved very valuable in attacking Russia. With their fleet in the Med going to Ukraine and / Caucasus they can punch a hole in the lines of the Soviets.

Or as we did in the last game, Italy manages to take Caucasus (already had troops in the Ukraine) and then Germany lands their fighters so Russia is unable to take Stalingrad back.

In both our games, the axis won by the way. :wink:

[Imperious Leader]

310: can you post the moves on the first turn for Germany, Italy and Soviets

[Guest]

@Driel310:

I have to agree in the two games we played till decisive victory so far, the Italian proved very valuable in attacking Russia. With their fleet in the Med going to Ukraine and / Caucasus they can punch a hole in the lines of the Soviets.

Or as we did in the last game, Italy manages to take Caucasus (already had troops in the Ukraine) and then Germany lands their fighters so Russia is unable to take Stalingrad back.

In both our games, the axis won by the way. :wink:

I agree italy should stay in europe and attack russia. Africa has low resources and didn’t work out well for them in real life due to the desert.

[Driel310]

@Imperious:

310: can you post the moves on the first turn for Germany, Italy and Soviets

I hope I can remember them all, but from our second game Germany opened as follows:

Germany

• Build 10 inf (what else is new :p)

• Attacks:

SZ 2 with 2 subs + 1 ftr cleared without loss since both subs made First strike hits
SZ 6 with 1 subs + CA -> cleared without loss
Egypt with 2 inf, 1 rtl, 2 arm, 1 bmb -> LOST, with 1 arm, 1 ftr remaining of UK
Ukraine with 2 inf, 1 rtl, 1 ftr -> cleared, can’t remember how much I had left
East Poland with 3 inf, 1 rtl, 6 arm -> cleared, can’t remember how much I had left
Baltic States with 4 inf, 2 ftrs -> cleared, can’t remember how much I had left

That was it. Egypt was a real bad roll making the African campaign a loser after G1. It is a must do move IMHO since you can’t afford the British to stay alive there, due to a possible Indian IC or worse, Allied ships in the Med.

• Non Combat:
  1 inf, from Morocco to Lybia
  1 inf, 1 rtl from Germany to Poland
  1 ftr lands in Norway
  2 inf from Norway to Finland
  1 ftr lands in Germany
  2 ftrs land in Poland
  1 bmb land in Lybia

• Collect income:
  35 IPC + 10 NO = 45 Income

Russia

Now I played Germany myself, that’s why I can remember a lot in detail, from Russia I remember a little bit less .

• Build 1 inf, 1 bmb, 1 ftr, 1 arm

• Attacks:

On Baltic States with 7 inf, 1 rtl, 1 arm. But the rolls on the first round were not that good, so Russia decided to retreat back to Karelia.

Then a lot of non-combat, forgive me how they went exactly, but in the end it was like troops in Moscow, Caucasus and Karelia. 1 inf in both Eastern Ukraine and Belorussia. Nothing special in Siberia, just massing inf at Buryatin.

• Collect income:

26 IPC +5 NO = 31 income

Looking in hindsight the build of Russia was a bit too aggressive. Maybe 1 ftr less and 2 arm more would have been better. But from some things you learn.

UK

You didn’t ask for UK, but I’ll include them for short as well.  :wink:

UK Build 1 CV, 2 DD’s and 1 CA

UK cleared ALL ships of Germany, except one sub in SZ 6. So the nice rolls on G1 in the sea were cancelled out.
UK ftr from Egypt killed the lonely trn from Germany so that was game over in Africa for Germany. They never returned there in the entire game. India was abandoned, also due to pressure from Japan.
UK trn from Canada landed amph. in Morocco straight away.

All UK builds were placed in SZ2.

Italy
-  Build 1 ftr (the normal build would have 1 trn and 1 inf, but since Egypt was not down and there were UK ships in the Med I couldn’t and had to move the Italian fleet to Gibralter to kill those ships.

• Attacks:

1 inf, 1 arm, 1 ftr to Morocco taken
1 BB, 2 CA’s to SZ 13 vs 1 CA, 1 DD and 1 trn cleared without loss (BB took 1 hit)
2 inf from Lybia to Egypt taken

• Collect income:

10 IPC + 5 NO = 15 income

That was it. Overall, things didn’t go well for the axis due to the Egypt debacle. However Germany has to attack Egypt. UK will move those troops out and they will hunt you down later on if you don’t. According to the odds calc it is a 80% battle and in our first game Germany took it with 2 arm alive! Due to good rolls against the soviets the east front looked better and in the end that is what the Axis won the game.  Don’t know which turn, but first Italy took the Ukraine, to be followed by German armor + fighters. Then the same happened with the Caucasus, so Italy had a factory at Stalingrad (how cool is that ). Stalingrad was defended by Italians, Germans and even Japanese who had broken through India/Persia. The Germans only bought infantry in the first turns. With a USA going for 100% Pacific fleet (John Barbarossa can tell you about how that went), all those infantry moved east and after a few turns they ran over Leningrad, moved in to Belorussia and then the final blow on Moscow.

There a very long story on how the first turn looked.

[italiansarecoming]

Well i can see the italians have 2 choices to play.  they can go all out on africa or go for russia i like to help the germans in france and send in russia/africa i would choose a plane i just love how they retreat!

[Bluestroke]

LOL,

Excellent move and Great Name for the Tactic…

[Richter von Manthofen]

ll I can say: Avanti Savoia ;)

[italiansarecoming]

@Bluestroke:

LOL,

Excellent move and Great Name for the Tactic…

do i smell… sarcartisticness!

o well!

anyways i think it should be something like bessarabia attempts (make it sound historical !)

[Lucifer]

@Driel310:

Now I played Germany myself, that’s why I can remember a lot in detail, from Russia I remember a little bit less .

• Build 1 inf, 1 bmb, 1 ftr, 1 arm

• Attacks:

:? :? :? :lol: :-o :-o :roll: :roll:

What kind of games are you really playing???

[italiansarecoming]

a&a50 his answer will be lol (when i first read it i thought he was russia to what a waste laugh out loud!)

[shermantank]

Italy should attack the Russians because that takes pressure off of Germany in their invasion of Russia and it expands Italy’s income base, which it needs to do very quickly before the Allies take over Italy.

[Bluestroke]

@Sherman:

Italy should attack the Russians because that takes pressure off of Germany in their invasion of Russia and it expands Italy’s income base, which it needs to do very quickly before the Allies take over Italy.

After Italy, secures, Med and Africa? 
A slight delay, allows the German Player some time to build his strike force.
I would use this tactic.  It pressures USSR Stalingrad IC and UK India IC. 
We have used this overrun technique with UK and USA often enough.  It will be nice, now the Axis can use this same tactic.  I also believe this provides a strong argument for the Southern route to Moscow.

[shermantank]

@Bluestroke:

@Sherman:

Italy should attack the Russians because that takes pressure off of Germany in their invasion of Russia and it expands Italy’s income base, which it needs to do very quickly before the Allies take over Italy.

After Italy, secures, Med and Africa? 
A slight delay, allows the German Player some time to build his strike force.
I would use this tactic.  It pressures USSR Stalingrad IC and UK India IC. 
We have used this overrun technique with UK and USA often enough.  It will be nice, now the Axis can use this same tactic.  I also believe this provides a strong argument for the Southern route to Moscow.

I agree

[italiansarecoming]

Meh,  i choose the route that i think will be more profitable example :  i can send 2 inf. and 2 tanks at  place that is 5 ipc’s and has 2 infantry on it or a territory that has 7 infantry worth  2 ipc’s and you can send 3 fighters 5 tanks and 4 infantry!  hmmmmmmm which 1 like southern or northern what makes you get a better chance!