Whilst many focus on what the 30 IPC (plus money spent on reinforcements on the ICs) could be spent on - navy, troops and trasports, airforce etc - the idea is to PREVENT the invasion of Russia.
In games I’ve played with advanced opponents, the threat to Russia comes from Japan for two critical reasons:
1. Most important and most overlooked, the economic strength of Russia in this game is its eastern provinces that stretch from behind moscow to behind Cauc. Excluding Moscow and Cauc (with 12 IPC value and ICs) where is the rest of Russia’s income? Besides Karelia and Archangel, everything else is EAST.
That’s 8 IPC in Burytia, Soviet Far East, Yakut, Evenki, Novosibirsk, and Kazakh, if memory serves. Karelia, Belorussia, Ukraine, Archangel, West Russia, and Caucasus total 15 IPC. Besides that, there is the problem of logistics and defense for Russia. Infantry at Russia must travel to Novosibirsk then Yakut to threaten Japan’s front line, but at that point they bump into Japan’s infantry transport dumping. The alternative is for Russia to send in through China/Ssinkiang, but Russia can never go past that point in force, as if the Russians do hit French Indochina, Manchuria, or Kwangtung, Japan simply smashes them Russia CANNOT CONTROL Japanese expansion, particularly if the Japanese go heavy on tanks.
I believe the two ICs do not change this situation much. The only way I think it possible for a two-IC plan to work is for the United States of America to also build a Pacific navy.
2. The accessibility of the eastern provinces means that the US and UK need to build ICs. Russia, as I was saying, if played by a competent player, should be able to hold Germany off barring massive disasters. Russia gets into MASSIVE problems when assaulted by Japan AND Germany. If we look at the income, for example, though Germany could be earning somewhere between 45-49 ICs fairly easily a significant portion of that must be spent (I’d say close to half) on defensive purchases in WEu and Ger - especially if the Baltic is lost or through luck/bad planning German aviation totals less than 5 aircraft.
So you are a proponent of building Ssinkiang and India ICs, while trying an Atlantic buildup? Cracking Germany is a difficult proposition, and slowing down the attack on Germany by bleeding of IPCs into ICs and units in India and Ssinkiang is, I think, a losing strategy. Japan can pull its aircraft into range of Asia by J3, crack one of the ICs, and start seriously messing with Russia.
Thus, Russia can almost match production with Germany and is greatly aided by the accessibility of its ICs to the front. This is further enhanced by the R1 russian turn into West Russia. A good Russian player will hardly ever get overun there unless they get reckless with trades - especially in EEu. Bringing Russian troops into EEu unless WEu has been held by the allies is tantamount to a death sentence, even on T1. It negates the natural Russian advantages close to Moscow and gives them to Germany.
3. The Key to the IC builds is this: as Russia will only fall when Japan is at the gates of Moscow - because Russia now fights on two fronts AND has lost almost half of its income - the defence provided in Sianking and India cuts off two routs to the Capital. If Japan is in India, it can blitz to Cau; if Japan is in Sianking, it can blitz into Moscow - both aided by the always superior Japanese airforce. The IC builds block the two most vulnerable routes into Russia. It makes Japan crawl through the East, one turn at a time.
I disagree. Regardless of the Japanese moves, the Japs should have at least 5 fighter 1 bomber in Asia by J3, particularly if, as it seems you advocate, the Allies are ALSO building up their Atlantic fleet (Japan doesn’t need air in the Pacific). With Japan unthreatened, at least one of those ICs should crack, probably around J4-5ish.
I also think people underestimate the fleet advantages that the allies have in the east on the first turn. Adding to what I said earlier, I’ve even played this ultra-aggressive KJF centred on UK:
T1
Russia: as before, with a lone tank to India
UK: Destroyer off india to lone transport; India 3 men and one figther to FIC (2 men 1 fighter); Australian trans/sub/2 men into water off New Guniea (no attack); non-combat moves transport picks up anyone left in Persia/Africa, egypt destroyer to India.
US: as before.
The UK attack into FIC is an extremely aggressive move but often effective (out of four units, at least one hit often two - this leaves Japan with no units that can attack India on t1). FIC is often not taken, but it does not matter because no Japanese troops are left to fight. Japan is left with only men in Manchuria and Kwantang - hardly enough to take on the ICs or the Russian troops.
I disagree very much.
1. Egypt destroyer should either be cut off or destroyed. Every German player should take Anglo-Egypt on G1.
2. You bleed off India, and if you fail to destroy the Japanese fighter, you are totally hosed in Asia with nothing to stop the Jap advance; you get six infantry in India next turn (UK Persia infantry, UK transported infantry from Africa, 3 infantry built in India - IF you succeed. But Japan starts dumping infantry into the coast pretty quickly, and your 3 unit per turn build in India can’t match Japan’s churning out of 8 per turn.
3. Let’s not forget what happens if your destroyer attack on Kwangtung fails. Japanese transport dumps Jap infantry in India, supported by Japanese air. J1 IC in India is BIG BONUS for Axis.
The UK navy also create big problems for Japan. Unless the Aust transport is taken out either the Phillipines or Borneo will fall. The destroyer of Kwantung must be attacked too to allow reinforcements into FIC from Japan. The UK Navy of India also has a transport that can attack Jap islands when the 2nd Japanese Navy moves home to protect transport build from aviation. Plus, Japan must do Pearl Harbour. Significant difficulties.
Regarding other suggestions:
1. Pearl very light (dest, sub, fighter, bomber) is very risky - if the carrier is not destroyed, Japan faces significant invasion problems very early.
Who attacks Pearl with dest, sub, fighter, bomber? The answer is - only someone that can make TREMENDOUS gains elsewhere. Of course it is risky; I think anyone would agree with that. But if Japan is taking those sorts of risks, Japan is probably kicking a lot of a** elsewhere.
2. 9 bid is way too high (5-7 depending on skill)
I keep hearing the 9 bid is too high. I keep saying that THE BEST BID CHANGES WITH THE RULES USED FOR BID PLACEMENT (DUN DUN DUN).
3. Though its cool to discuss, does anyone actually fear a German invasion? Come on, even with India IC ( say 3 men build) that gives 6-7 men, plus 2 fighters, fleet to block, US reinforcements, and at least 10 units from starting and t1 builds. If Ger wants to try, good luck
Er, wat? German invasion of what? Hell, I’ll just ram Germany down Africa’s throat, run German infantry in towards Moscow, then switch to German Mediterranean infantry drops into Caucasus backed up by G3-4+ built tanks.
I think the emphasis on how the KJF weakens Allies into Europe is also overated. UK can go into Norway very easily, and push across to Karelia. The US can very easily get into Africa in T1. Germ, though having airforce in WEEu, must have some airforce in Eastern Front. If I’m allies, I’ll often send destoyer and 2 trans on first turn into Africa even if in range of Ger aviation. I can replace this very easily ( panama destroyer/ build 2 transports) and will slowly but surely drain Germ eco by fighting in Africa AND shooting down 1/3 planes.
You must be playing against some weak a** German players, srsly. They don’t even take Anglo-Egypt on G1. All these nebulous gains are easy if the Allies spend heavily in the Atlantic; if the Allies are bleeding off 30 IPC initially for 2 ICs and 9-15 IPC thereafter for infantry/tanks/fighters at those ICs, then German economy should be roaring. Unless, as said, German player is insane/idiotic. Which actually sounds like a lot of people I know. Lol. Maybe even me. :lol:
In essence the US into Afrcia plus Sianking IC, and UK into Norway plus INDIA IC is a giant containment strategy. And, as we know, the longer the game goes - ESPECIALLY with UK not losing all its cash - the harder it is for Axis to win. Send Japan backwards on T1 and everything that comes later is easier.
Cheers