Hi all again,

Thanks for the discussion…

In defence of the India IC and US IC in Sianking (they must both occur), both of them block what is the major allied weakness of the game: the ease and accesibility of Moscow and Russia generally to Japanese invasion.

Whilst many focus on what the 30 IPC (plus money spent on reinforcements on the ICs) could be spent on - navy, troops and trasports, airforce etc - the idea is to PREVENT the invasion of Russia.

In games I’ve played with advanced opponents, the threat to Russia comes from Japan for two critical reasons:

1. Most important and most overlooked, the economic strength of Russia in this game is its eastern provinces that stretch from behind moscow to behind Cauc. Excluding Moscow and Cauc (with 12 IPC value and ICs) where is the rest of Russia’s income? Besides Karelia and Archangel, everything else is EAST.

2. The accessibility of the eastern provinces means that the US and UK need to build ICs. Russia, as I was saying, if played by a competent player, should be able to hold Germany off barring massive disasters. Russia gets into MASSIVE problems when assaulted by Japan AND Germany. If we look at the income, for example, though Germany could be earning somewhere between 45-49 ICs fairly easily a significant portion of that must be spent (I’d say close to half) on defensive purchases in WEu and Ger - especially if the Baltic is lost or through luck/bad planning German aviation totals less than 5 aircraft. Thus, Russia can almost match production with Germany and is greatly aided by the accessibility of its ICs to the front. This is further enhanced by the R1 russian turn into West Russia. A good Russian player will hardly ever get overun there unless they get reckless with trades - especially in EEu. Bringing Russian troops into EEu unless WEu has been held by the allies is tantamount to a death sentence, even on T1. It negates the natural Russian advantages close to Moscow and gives them to Germany.

3. The Key to the IC builds is this: as Russia will only fall when Japan is at the gates of Moscow - because Russia now fights on two fronts AND has lost almost half of its income - the defence provided in Sianking and India cuts off two routs to the Capital. If Japan is in India, it can blitz to Cau; if Japan is in Sianking, it can blitz into Moscow - both aided by the always superior Japanese airforce. The IC builds block the two most vulnerable routes into Russia. It makes Japan crawl through the East, one turn at a time.

I also think people underestimate the fleet advantages that the allies have in the east on the first turn. Adding to what I said earlier, I’ve even played this ultra-aggressive KJF centred on UK:

T1
Russia: as before, with a lone tank to India
UK: Destroyer off india to lone transport; India 3 men and one figther to FIC (2 men 1 fighter); Australian trans/sub/2 men into water off New Guniea (no attack); non-combat moves transport picks up anyone left in Persia/Africa, egypt destroyer to India.
US: as before.

The UK attack into FIC is an extremely aggressive move but often effective (out of four units, at least one hit often two - this leaves Japan with no units that can attack India on t1). FIC is often not taken, but it does not matter because no Japanese troops are left to fight. Japan is left with only men in Manchuria and Kwantang - hardly enough to take on the ICs or the Russian troops.

The UK navy also create big problems for Japan. Unless the Aust transport is taken out either the Phillipines or Borneo will fall. The destroyer of Kwantung must be attacked too to allow reinforcements into FIC from Japan. The UK Navy of India also has a transport that can attack Jap islands when the 2nd Japanese Navy moves home to protect transport build from aviation. Plus, Japan must do Pearl Harbour. Significant difficulties.

Regarding other suggestions:
1. Pearl very light (dest, sub, fighter, bomber) is very risky - if the carrier is not destroyed, Japan faces significant invasion problems very early.
2. 9 bid is way too high (5-7 depending on skill)
3. Though its cool to discuss, does anyone actually fear a German invasion? Come on, even with India IC ( say 3 men build) that gives 6-7 men, plus 2 fighters, fleet to block, US reinforcements, and at least 10 units from starting and t1 builds. If Ger wants to try, good luck

I think the emphasis on how the KJF weakens Allies into Europe is also overated. UK can go into Norway very easily, and push across to Karelia. The US can very easily get into Africa in T1. Germ, though having airforce in WEEu, must have some airforce in Eastern Front. If I’m allies, I’ll often send destoyer and 2 trans on first turn into Africa even if in range of Ger aviation. I can replace this very easily ( panama destroyer/ build 2 transports) and will slowly but surely drain Germ eco by fighting in Africa AND shooting down 1/3 planes.

In essence the US into Afrcia plus Sianking IC, and UK into Norway plus INDIA IC is a giant containment strategy. And, as we know, the longer the game goes - ESPECIALLY with UK not losing all its cash - the harder it is for Axis to win. Send Japan backwards on T1 and everything that comes later is easier.

Cheers

Hi all,

Long time reader, first time poster.

Personally, I think the UK IC in India can be an excellent idea if co-ordinated into a clear allied strategy against Japan. Quite frankly, I don’t understand why so few people believe in targeting Japan and instead focus on Germany.

Japan is clearly the weaker axis player both economically and militarily. Besides its fleet, it has little other substantive forces necessary for taking the mainland in early rounds - no tanks, few troops and only 2 transports.

Allied T1 should target Japan - look at the accesibility of its key territories compared to the German turtle.

Russia: the setting up of American bases should be the goal. Move the eastern forces (6 men) into Bury to form a landing site for US avaiation. 1 Russian fighter to Sianking for defence and offense, and if you feel unsafe 1/2 men. Its range is good - it can support the six men into Manch next turn/ and or into Uk/WestRus/etc and land in Cauc. The threat to Russia from Germany is at its most minimal in the early rounds of the game and any decent Russian player should be able to handle Germany trades early on.

UK: IC into India. The UK is in many respects the key - its primary task, the most important of the game perhaps, is to sink the lone Japanese transport off the coast. At least the fighter, even the destroyer from India. What happens next depends on how Egypt transpired. Whatever occurred, move anything thats left to India. If the fighter has survived, very big bonus. Move your bomber to Moscow. Has range over Manchurian coast.

Jap: now has problems. It has one transport - the mainland cannot be effectively supplied, Russia will take Manchuria no matter what (suicidal 3 men + planes is gold for the allied player to watch a desperate Japan player do). Its fleet now has 3 big problems -  Pearl Harbour, India fleet (at least carrier, plane, transport - hopefully Egypt destroyer  and plane too), and planes threatening home waters - UK Bomber, India fighter can attack Manchurian coast and land in Burit; US Bomber, Hawaii fighter, Hawaii carrier fighter Japan’s pacific coast). Japan must take out Pearl Harbour - but must also send capital ships to Japan to protect transports built (2-3 on average). The India fleet is unlikely to be attacked - if it is, US fleet will rapidly dominate. In the end, will split forces and protect Japan and do Pearl Harbour light.

US: IC in Sianking. Counter-attack remaining Jap fleet at Pearl Harbour  with BB, trans, fighters from Haw, LA and Bomber. Haw fighter and bomber to Bury. If Japan did not protect its new transport airforce attacks there. Build carrier and transport in LA, 2 transports East (for pressure in Africa/WEur/ or eventually Norway).

This strategy works very well because it targets the weaker Axis player - Japan has only 30 IPCs!!! It cannot afford to lose territories, capital ships or boats.

Long-term - the US fleet on t2 to Solomons, t3 to big island. BUILD another IC. UK also tries for a big island too. Japan will be left with big problems due to US airforce and russian base. Its only long-term avenue is through far east. That will take 4-5 turns. US and UK to trade Japanese mainland territories, keeping their main forces in India and away from the coast.

The further advantage of this strategy is this: a good German player will obviously play defence from turn one and thus not be able to adjust quickly from a 8-10 inf build (plus either carrier/transports/tanks/fighter). They lack mobility from turn one onwards, withdrawing into the turtle.

Focus on Japan. They are weak and allies can co-ordinate all forces into Japanese territories. Once its loses its islands, it basically can’t get them back.

Cheers