What’re your guys’s thoughts on this?
Previously I was like no way! Just let the US shuck its own units, and let the UK have the money because the UK needs it bad.
While it remains indisputable that the UK needs as much cash as it can lay its hands on due to losses of its fringe territories, a US IC in Norway appears to have its own benefits.
First, the US IC is not vulnerable to strategic bombing, because it is very easy to stick an excess AA gun in there (the ones from e/w us).
Second, let’s compare 2 tran vs 1 IC for the US. 2 tran increases the flow of units by 2 units due to how widely splayed out the Atlantic is; it’s not 4 units because 4 units can’t make it every turn based on 2 transports to Europe. The IC is worth 3 units. And furthermore, those 3 units can all be tanks, while the best that comes out of 1 tran of units is 1 inf 1 tank.
Does one way have a clear advantage over the other?
It appears that while the UK could really use the money, the US can get faster offensive troops into Europe with the Norway IC.
Norway is a good staging area. Worth 3, so it becomes worthwhile to build a complex here. (Transport carries 2 costs 8 and it takes two turns to get there from America. IC costs 15, builds instantly there with 9-45 IPC worth of units (ground/air only).)
However, have you considered building a British complex there? If England’s earning more then 35 IPC a round, it’s a pretty good deal for them, better then America anyway.
However, have you considered building a British complex there? If England’s earning more then 35 IPC a round, it’s a pretty good deal for them, better then America anyway.
I find it takes too long for the British to generate 35+. They’re usually in the 28-32 range, even with Norway. :|
Kinda depends on the dice and what happens with German strategy I guess. I prefer to let England gather land, America doesn’t need it and Russia usually can’t afford to attack after round 7 or so. Leaves England mostly.
I send America to Africa early to clear it, saves the Brits income. Even so, unless the allies are trading E. Europe/Belorussia/W. Russia (hopefully E. Europe and Belo to England) I don’t know why you’d risk an IC in Norway.
I send America to Africa early to clear it, saves the Brits income.
Well I hope you let the Brits pick up the 2 IPCs in Algeria/Libya, I try to anyways.
Even so, unless the allies are trading E. Europe/Belorussia/W. Russia (hopefully E. Europe and Belo to England) I don’t know why you’d risk an IC in Norway.
What’s the risk of a US IC in Norway?
The risk is it falling to the Germans.
And I don’t always let the Brits have Algeria/Libya. It kind of depends on what the board looks like on UK 1.
The risk is it falling to the Germans.
I would consider that risk insignificant if you build the complex when it’s safe to do so.
And I don’t always let the Brits have Algeria/Libya. It kind of depends on what the board looks like on UK 1.
That would seem to conflict with your theory of allowing the UK to gather as much IPC as it can. In what situations do you believe that the UK shouldn’t gather every IPC it can?
I’m still letting England get every IPC it can, it just cannot get Algeria and Libya. :P
Seriously, there are times when England just cannot afford to go to Africa on round 1, in which case, America gets those two areas. Either way, Germany has to lose them as fast as possible, IMHO.
Sometimes England needs to land in Karelia/Archangelsk on Round 1.
Sometimes England needs to invade W. Europe and get 2 fighters because the Germans didn’t stack it well enough (my 2 on 2 loser game is like that, couldn’t pass up the 2 free fighter kills.)
Does it happen often? No. But it does happen and you have to have a contingency for it.
Meanwhile, the point I was making about it being in jeapordy was that England’s probably trading E. Europe, Belorussia and W. Russia when you build it. Otherwise it might be in jeapordy. In other words, England’s probably got a very large stack in Karelia and you only need the IC in Norway because England cannot spend all it’s money on land units, it just has too much!
Seriously, there are times when England just cannot afford to go to Africa on round 1, in which case, America gets those two areas. Either way, Germany has to lose them as fast as possible, IMHO.
Well yes I agree, but why not go in round 2? :? When the Germans build a navy I usually have to build in SZ2 on Uk1, then go to Algeria on round 2, thats when I grab them, not immediately.
Meanwhile, the point I was making about it being in jeapordy was that England’s probably trading E. Europe, Belorussia and W. Russia when you build it. Otherwise it might be in jeapordy. In other words, England’s probably got a very large stack in Karelia and you only need the IC in Norway because England cannot spend all it’s money on land units, it just has too much!
That seems infrequent, and also I was talking about the Americans building an IC there, because they usually have the cash available and it’s more efficient than building tran for that case.
I’ve never built one in Norway with the US because I simply don’t like to wait until US can take Norway.
In most of my games the US is pre-occupied with Africa in the beginning and I allow UK to take Norway a lot sooner than US gets into the N Atlantic. Unless Germany recaptures it I will allow the UK to keep it for the whole game.
Yeah I see your point mr AJ, that’s what I’m used to doing as well. I just saw this move recently and was like hmm, does it have merit? I think it’s a toss-up if both forces are available to take it, but you might be “forced” to default it to one power when the other power has to do something else.
Bean, it seems your questions are, 1) US vs. UK taking Norway and building an IC there, and 2) Norway IC vs. just shucking with boats. On #1, it really depends on Axis strategy and the dice, to some degree. If Germany falters early in Africa, British income could potentially reach the mid-30s by turn 5 or so, in which case, Britain will have a little extra income to support a Norway IC. In some games, though, America ends up taking Norway through a weird set of circumstances, and when that happens, I am more than happy to build an American IC there. And why bother shucking over an American AA? Why take up the transport space? Just move over Britain’s and build another to replace it, if needed. If the German bomber is dead, though, don’t bother. So I guess in most games, I prefer UK to take Norway for income reasons. I don’t really go out of my way to let America take it unless, as you say, Britain is tied up elsewhere.
As for buying an IC versus just shucking, I look at it this way. To get 3 units from America to Norway, America must invest in 32 IPCs worth of boats (2 to get them to UK and 2 to get them to Norway/Karelia). Granted, that actually gets 4 units over, but that’s the investment that’s required. Compare that to 15 IPCs for the factory, and the fact you’re building on the front, and it’s an easy decision.
Thanks mr gamer. I do already realize that it’s better to buy the IC vs transports, from the very first post. I was wondering however if you should try to set it up such that the US takes Norway, or just let the UK have Norway, given that they both could take it without stressing any other attacks.
And why bother shucking an American AA? Because you may not have enough men to fill all of your transports early on anyways, very common. Why spend 5 IPCs to make an AA gun when you have freebies? That’d be like strategically bombing yourself for 5 IPCs, not to mention you can only make 7 men on UK if you made an AA for the 8th slot.
I also agree that an US factory in Norway is much more effective than 2 transports, and more like 4 ! (3 tanks vs 2inf 2tanks)
But it’s not always possible, if Germans have a counteroffensive force ready in Karelia, strong enough to wipe the US if they come alone. But two Allied waves are much more solid defensively: not only the British troops, but also the US planes that may arrive on the airfields captured by the British.
UK 4inf, 4tnk US 4inf, 3tnk, 4fig, 1bmb, 1AA
OR: it’s possible Norway was swapped by light forces between US and Germany; then one time, Germans fail to recapture it (say 1inf,1art,1fig vs 2inf, quite possible) and the flag remains US. THEN would be the time for UK+US to come in force, with all UK planes too.
Basically:
US IC in Norway is great IF YOU CAN GET IT, but because of turn order and other various factor, it is very difficult to get in practice.
I think it is a good option,
It should provide indeed 3 units, and not being attacked after you got a nice cover from USSR or UK, at least not from Karilea, since you keep the pipeline going into that country.
I think it is worth it, but ah well, I doubt wether UK or US should build it, US is btter I think, they need to travel way more then UK.
Or America builds it in Norway, leaves it empty, Germany takes it, and England takes it away so England gets a free IC? :P
And, for the record, Algeria dies on Round 1. I don’t want to wait until Round 2. That’s more time for that solitary Transport to put annoyances in my way for my war for oil!
What if US builds the IC in Norway, UK lands as many troops as possible to protect it, and US starts building ships in the Baltic? (Like a BB and 2 subs). Germany would have to fight them or move, right into range of the Atlantic Fleet, which if built right, could destroy them. A quick way to expose more German shoreline to protect.
Interesting, but would need thought out in detail to work.
/Yes, I use to many apostrophes.
I think building a fleet there is not going to lead anywhere,
Germany retreats (well I would at least) when you build an IC in Norway from the Atlantic, and keep all units focuses now on the entire Russian line, with additional US forces,
Building this IC, would you still build the one in Sinkiang?!
I think building a fleet there is not going to lead anywhere,
Germany retreats (well I would at least) when you build an IC in Norway from the Atlantic, and keep all units focuses now on the entire Russian line, with additional US forces,
Building this IC, would you still build the one in Sinkiang?!
who builds in Sikiang anyway? YOu need an indian IC there first
