I don’t buy it. It doesn’t excuse USSR to be this weak. The only conclusion I can come up with is ether they didn’t test Germany vs USSR enough OR they wanted USSR to be this weak.
The Bright Skies
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When it comes to supporting Europe with the bright skies tactic they can do it with minimal use of force at the start of the war. USA can get onto Mororco once they can declare war with basically just their starting force. They can then move into Tunisia with ease and now Italy can be STR bombed by the USA from Africa. Also 4-6 subs from USA and or UK can totally decimate Italy in the med on convoy routes.
With a slow methodical build up of air power moving into Africa you can secure Egypt and crush italian production to the point that they can no longer “can open” for Germany. You dont have to kill off Italy, just reduce them to a rubble pile that can’t support Germany in any meaningful way on the Eastern Front. USA/UK can accomplish this goal early in the game around T4 if USA is in the war on a J1 or j2 Attack.
USA and Japan are very similar in the approach to the war since they are both naval powers. Air Power is key to their success and when they do attack 50%+ of the attacking force is usually with air power. That is why I advocate a more balance build approach build plan for the USA. Once they go into Europe they have overwhelming air power behind their small stack of land units.
Once USA can opens for UK they follow up with the land units to secure their conquest.
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My last battle USA was purchasing bombers in first two turns. Then turn 3-4 was used for pacific fleet as German had focused on the med and convoying UK with its buys and given Russia some space. Turn 5-6 bombers again as Germany had build extra fleet to keep its Baltic fleet alive. Afterwards just bombers to make sure any Axis fleet in Europe got directly destroyed + started pounding German factories.
So USA bomber buys are dependent on the situation. Is Germany messing around? Send your bombers against Japan + start building fleet in USA3.
To make Bright Skies work, just the first two turns building bombers is enough, third if Germany has build some additional fleet or protection for the Baltic fleet.
The initial post of this thread is from my first tuning, I got some more experience and feedback in the meantime. Will update it. You don’t need full bomber buys, however getting 9 in two first turns is always worth it I think. Lets call it the Bright Skies USA opener instead or something.
Great idea to start other topics about the Red Tide + Japan strategy. This one is called Bright Skies, but has devoted more time to Red Tide, so not sure how best to call this one.
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I will open a thread soon. To discuss these strategies is great. The different outcomes of the games using these strategies relies on the individual players on both sides of the game. It will be interesting to see these strategies implemented and tweaked into a nice refined workable strategy.
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I will open a thread soon. To discuss these strategies is great. The different outcomes of the games using these strategies relies on the individual players on both sides of the game. It will be interesting to see these strategies implemented and tweaked into a nice refined workable strategy.
I agree, and I see think you nailed them both already some posts earlier
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Anyone on here looking for a PBEM game? Please private message me.
Maybe Afrikakorps you could teach me your successful allies’ strategy?
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Curious as to why fast movers G2 are so important in your opinion?
Germany has a big enough stack of infantry that USSR can’t take them down very easily and slow movers bought G2 will arrive early enough for a G7 attack on Moscow. Unless you are targeting a G6 take down, of course.
The G2 fast mover build allows you to force the Russian forces to retreat to Moscow on R4, and allows you to move adjacent to Moscow on G5. Even if this does not mean the fall of the capitol on G6, you now can head south into the oilfields and get the German economy up to healthy 70-80 range. Slow movers bought on G2 require an extra round to get to the front which means your stack is not sufficiently strong to sit next to Moscow on the critical G5. Furthermore a stack of 20+ fast movers, with air support and Italian canopeners, allows you to project so much power from the very valuable regions south of Moscow. Slow movers just play a painful dance as Allied planes reinforce a critical territory and then can redeploy instantly in response to German movements.
The German airforce is often required to reinforce the ground forces on the pivotal move. It does place them out of position for a round or two, but they can usually get back to support the Western Front on the crucial G7 when the Allies often start mounting a major invasion in France. If your timing is off even a single round, the game could be lost.
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Anyone on here looking for a PBEM game? Please private message me.
Maybe Afrikakorps you could teach me your successful allies’ strategy?
I would love to. Also started two other forum games to test it out online. Unfortunately I don’t have the time this month and will be travelling the months after. As soon as I return I will have the time, so lets play then!
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Hello there!
Tomorrow I am Russia, USA and China again and will use the Bright Skies + Red Tide strategy again for a third time before I get to play the Axis again. The last two games were very succesful doing this strategy.
Lessons so far:
Bright Skies: USA bomber opening (2 turns) to destroy baltic fleet
Red Tide: a combination of artillery, mechanized infantry and tanks combined with Russian geographical advantage leads to a counter-charging Russia for their defense.
By sending early USA bomber fleet to Europe map they can take out baltic fleet or force Germany to expand its fleet. Both are great for Russia and equals Germany and Russia in power.
Russia will concentrate north to save time, can attack Scandinavia but also retreat to Moscoe, however will always be ready to strike for a counter-attack. Russia will be played with hit and run, many small battles with reserves to tire out Germany.
Best defense for Russia is offense as it negates Germany greatest strength: luftwaffe. Air can strike on offense but not participate in defense.
Italy can can-open but only from turn 4 onwards, by then time has been buyed against Germany. Also USA initial fleet will destroy Italy as there is war.
Russia keeps Siberian forces in the north to work together with UK and USA to give China more time to survive. China alive means a safe eastern border for Russia and lots of saved IPC needed for the war.
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Again the Allies returned from a convincing victory over the Axis. Especially there synergy between heavy bomber builds from USA (100% first 4 turns) worked very well again as Germany tried to keep control over the Baltic / Leningrad.
Russia build
6 art, 3 mech
3 tank, 5 mech for about 4 turns
Since turn 6 I was expanding rapidly as Germany was overwhelmed at all sides.Pacific also worked very well again, I even got to save the flying tigers to the end of the game. Lost all chinese and siberian forces but stayed alive long enough to mess up Japan plans and forced them to retreat back instead of full out UK that could therefore survive and later on counter-attack also.
Next time I am Allies and will likely do either Russia Crush or Afrika Korps.
How do you do a standard and effective Russia crush? (builds, DOW and advances?)
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My standard full-Russia crush is simple:
G1: 6 art + 2 mech
I1: mech + tankG2: 10 fast movers (mechs+tanks) + optional
I2 DOWG3 follow Italian thrust, purchase some more fast movers
I3 choose northern routeG4: follow Italian thrust plus minor opportunistic attacks, get some more planes
I4: move next to MoscowG5: reinforce Italian stack. Bring in planes to guarantee 90+% chance of defense
I5: step down towards Caucuses unless it looks possible to capture Moscow on G6G6 and beyond: decide on options to
A) attack Moscow
B) push to Iraq
C) head towards Siberia
D) distract Allies so Japan can win.This outline can proceed at least through G5 unless you have crazy dice rolls during the first couple of rounds. You can Battlecalc it, but there is very little that Russia can do becomes fall back to Moscow. They can choose to swap units straight up with Germany, or do minor opportunistic counters, but that won’t prevent them from being trapped in Moscow obviously R5. They might be able to delay the push by a round, but at a very high cost.
You must be playing against novices who waste too much German money on fleet or homeland defense.
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Oops, I meant 6 art + 2 inf for a total of 30 PUs. That gives an effective attack benefit of 20 when you are trying to push back a determined Russian defender. If I want to play a more balanced game with additional threats into the oceans and a possibility of Sea Lion, I will do a sub + 2 bomber build on G1. That reduces the attack to a mere 8, but likely saves a plane or two during G2. Furthermore the bombers reduce the number of UK fighters that will be stacked against you so it is almost as effective as 6 art + 2 inf.
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@Arthur:
Oops, I meant 6 art + 2 inf for a total of 30 PUs. That gives an effective attack benefit of 20 when you are trying to push back a determined Russian defender. If I want to play a more balanced game with additional threats into the oceans and a possibility of Sea Lion, I will do a sub + 2 bomber build on G1. That reduces the attack to a mere 8, but likely saves a plane or two during G2. Furthermore the bombers reduce the number of UK fighters that will be stacked against you so it is almost as effective as 6 art + 2 inf.
How do the bombers reduce the number of UK fighters?
I’d guess through strat bombing of UKE.
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If you do an all ground unit G1 purchase, UK can decide to just purchase a couple of planes on UK1. They don’t have to do a big spend on infantry to guard against Sea Lion, saving them 18 or more PUs. That allows an additional couple of UK fighters to be in Moscow on UK5, providing critical extra defense on the crucial G6/G7 turns where Moscow might fall. Hence the 2 bomber build gives Germany almost as good net attack strength as the 6 art + 2 inf build, plus has the flexibility to provide critical support in multiple operation theaters.
If the German player has below average luck or skill, the UK1-purchased fighters can also reach Bryansk on UK4. There is a potential for the Allies to make a determined defense in that territory and the extra defense points makes a HUGE difference in estimated battle outcomes. In many circumstances, it can make the difference between losing the entire German air force, versus losing only cheap ground units.
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Do you grab Brazil as US before turn 4 with this strategy? The land units could help protect Gibraltar and take the territory instead of only killing units on it. No real cost either since starting transport can grab half the force.
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Do you grab Brazil as US before turn 4 with this strategy? The land units could help protect Gibraltar and take the territory instead of only killing units on it. No real cost either since starting transport can grab half the force.
Yes I did this last game and it worked great. I only build an extra transport for the Atlantic as USA besides bombers and I ended up taking Rome.
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Wouldn’t the Allies be struggling if Germany does a Dark Skies strat to counter the Bright Skies plan? I would think that the Allied fleet would not be strong enough to approach Europe, and when they do drop off units the German counterattack would quickly crush the invasion forces. The fall of Rome is no big deal if Germany can just blitz down some fast movers and immediately retake the capitol. I still miss why Bright Skies would be effective against a competent Axis opponent.
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I will be playing Russia, USA and China again in two weeks.
So far my three plays with this combo, using Bright Skies with the mechanized Russia able to swiftly relocate and counter-attack has been quite succesful.
This time I want to be a bit more extreme with Russia, sending it’s aircraft (3 fighters and 3 tactical in R2) and two mechanized teams to China, to defeat the Japan on the mainland as soon as possible. As USA main focus is building bombers, with a focus on Italy/Germany in the first 3 rounds, Japan can misuse this lack of USA threat and win at the Pacific by decentralizing it’s fleet on JDOW1.
As Japan, I always find the lack of land troops on China the most difficult factor, especially when facing an offensive Allied push from all sides. This inflow of Russian aircraft will likely seal the deal. Aircraft can also reinforce India or be back in Russia when needed.
Japan can either respond by India crush and ignoring China (great: mission accomplished) or investing a lot in factories and mainland troops, slowing down it’s expansion (great: mission accomplished).
Of course, greatest downside is the lack of aircraft and a first turn artillery buy in Russia against Germany. Against a late push G3-4 this is not a problem, as the fighters can be back on time. Against early German push (G1-G2) or Sea Lion this plan should be aborted as you want Russia to be fully offensive against Germans.
For those that are not familiar with the concept of Bright Skies + Mechanized Russia this is the underlying doctrine.
Bright Skies
It takes a lot of time, ships and IPC to make USA useful at a particular front. It would be wiser to not use USA for troops and ships (as troops can be build a lot cheaper by the mainland forces Russia, China and UK) but for bombers. With the first 2 turn buys of bombers, you send this stack to London to kill the German Baltic Fleet. This destroys Scandinavian logistics and make it possible for UK or Russia to capture Norway giving big headaches to the Germans. You also send your Pearl Harbour fleet to the Med as soon as possible, which combined with a Taranto strike will neutralize Italy very early.Therefore, as USA you do not play to KJF or KGF, as this is not the task of the USA. Rather, you empower the mainland forces (Russia, China and UK) to become strong independent nations by hunting Axis fleet, denying their safe landing spots for aircraft, and bomb their factories. The mission of USA is to:
Stop Italy First (send it’s Hawaiian fleet to the med).
Stop Germany Second (destroy the Baltic fleet and bomb factories)
Stop Japan Third (hunt Japan fleet with bombers/subs)Mechanized Russia
Instead of the defensive infantry mindset, Russia should always be able to counter-attack, or relocate fast to different positions. It has a lot of starting infantry, and with a defense perimeter around Novgorod and Bryansk, both reinforced by artillery stacks, you can start massing mechanized infantry with some tanks. Due to Russian geography, you can become a lot more effective and dangerous with the bulk of your forces mechanized. This also fits more with the historical Russian doctrine, which has developed around the concept of the counter-attack. -
With the increased focus in pushing Japan out of China with Russia, I am considering to change my approach for next battle, and focus fully on Japan in the first 3 turns. Still, I will not build a single ship.
My plan is to buy 3 rounds of bombers and place them in striking range of SZ6 of Western United States. This gives Japan a VERY BIG problem, as it will be defeated in mainlaind China, and it can not build any ships around Japan, completely destroying his logistics. The only way Japan can respond, is by building more ships so the USA bombers can not overpower the SZ6 fleet, this is a losing strategy, as Japan has to remain defensive all game, while the Southern Allies (UK/ANZAC) can launch their offensive together with Russia and China.
As the starting post of this idea is quite old (2017), I will soon rewrite the idea behind Bright Skies and post it there. Looking forward to the discussion, such as that excellent new USA logistics post!
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@Afrikakorps it would be better to buy 3 CV’s the very first turn in sz 10 and then start with three, maybe four turns of Bmbrs and place them in WUS.
This gives you a way better defence in sz 54 where Anzak planes can be loaded on US CV’s and Bmbrs are able to keep Gibraltar and the Pacufic in check at the same time.
If Euro Axis decides to go for a Gibraltar grab, build a stack of Subs on one turn.
Along with the Bmbr any Axis Naval stands no chance against your Power.
You would be safe in that case for two turns in the Pacific.
Japan can simply out maneuver you in the Pacific bc they need the MI (Money Is.) and can build ships at FIC if needed and Subs along with Ftrs in Japan.
Therefore it is vital that you take Caro Is. asap.
Now you have the options you want for your Strategy! -
As USA I will still buy 4 bombers, and mobilize as much airforce as possible (keep carrier full) on Wake Island + Midway. If Japan did not attack USA in J1, this gives you a striking force of:
4 bombers (you can only build 3 in western)
5 fightersTo attack SZ6 in USA2, all possible to land in Amur.
Russia will buy 3 fighters + 1 tank, able to stack Yunnan or counter-attack Germans / protect factories against bombardments. After initial investment, only mech + artillery, with some tanks. I want to keep the option open to attack Northwest Persia R2 and Iraq R3 if GDOW2. I intend to have 4 Russian units (minimum of 1 fast mover) in Trans-Jordan R5 (Egypt R4) where they meet up with 2-3 USA transports to bring them to: Italian Somaliland, Sardinia, Sicily while fast mover moves to Ethiopia for a +13 IPC bonus R5-6 onwards.
USA will buy bombers again in USA2, and move all bombers to Eastern United States, to kill German Baltic Fleet in USA4.
In my play, Russia serves China, and USA serves Russia. I often play games without USA building anything different from bombers and some ships (mostly subs).
I have the philosophy, that China, UK, Russia infantry need to fight the Axis, while the USA hunts fleet, bombs factories, and convoys sea zones. It works quite well so far.
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