Pac win Round 4

[eames57]

What’s the earliest anyone’s ever won a game?  I think I found a viable strat for Japan to win in 4 turns.  I haven’t playtested it; I’m just curious if anyone has tried anything like this.  And it’s not guaranteed of course - else the game would be broken.  It actually requires a somewhat inexperienced America who doesn’t see it coming.  But I dont think it’s a complete Hail Mary.

J1
    Buy 2 transports and also either a bomber, 2 subs, or another transport/art.
    Move 2 loaded carriers to Midway or Wake.
    Otherwise set yourself up for a Sydney crush: everything that can moves to Carolines, including all planes (not on carriers) in range. Everything that can’t moves to Palau.  Your carrier/destroyer originally off Carolines down to New Guinea or Queensland.  (If he attacks that, then scrap this plan and just start clearing out Anzac forces and taking islands.)

J2 Pearl Harbor DOW
    Bring everything except your transports.  2 pairs of planes from the Carolines to land on your carriers while your carrier planes land on Marshalls.  This of course requires that America staged his fleet off Hawaii which an experienced player probably wouldn’t do considering how you set yourself up.  But even an experienced Yankee just might just leave it there as bait hoping to win a war of attrition and expecting to counterattack you A2.  He might not even scramble with this in mind.  But here’s the trick: take only planes as hits.  Kill off the planes headed to the Marshall’s first and replace any extra casualties with planes from the Carolines.  Dont even damage your BB unless his sub hits.  He wont be able to counter attack and you’re in good position to kill off any new fleet off San Fran, or at least set up blockers.
    Clear out Anzac navy with the rest of your fleet and take North or West Australia.

J3
    Take Hawaii.
    Move all available planes to Australia ready to take Sydney.
    Buy whatever you need to take Philippines.

You should still have 2 fighters and a tac left on China to keep them at bay for a turn or two and then to defend Hong Kong.  Don’t worry about Russia; bring all your Manchurian and Korean troops south to defend Shanghai.

It’s an all or nothing strat that doesn’t leave a lot of options if the gamble doesnt pay off.  But it’s the quickest way I can think of to win as either side.

[MarshmallowofWar]

Respectfully, this is a very simple plan to counter. It only has a high chance of success if the Allies cooperate by playing rote moves that are actually hurtful to them in this situation. If I saw you setting this up, there are very specific countering moves that I would make. If the Allies actually assess the situation and play correctly, you would suffer massive casualties by J4 that you could not afford to replace and you would only hold four victory cities at the end of C4/UK4.

The first obvious problem is that you do not have enough force on the mainland to keep the Chinese at bay. The rest you can work out for yourself.

Marsh

[eames57]

Agreed.  Its absurdly simple to counter by America not staging his fleet off Hawaii or even just working with Anzac to throw a couple blockers off both halves of New Guinea.  And if you dont succeed by round 4, you lose the game.  I wasn’t trying to come up with a foolproof strategy or even one in which high risk is matched by payoff.  I was trying to find out if anyone has tried to win in 4 turns before just for kicks.  And I think this one might work against an America who’s only played one or two games before.  Just to mix things up and try something new.

As for China, take Yunan and Hunan as usual.  Then hold out in Kwangsi for a turn if you can’t retake Yunan J2.  Retreat into Kiangsi on J3  if China/Brits move into Hunan.  From there you should be able to have about 20 troops, an AA gun, and 3 planes ready to defend either Hong Kong or Shanghai as needed (with an extra 4 from Korea on Shanghai).  I’m not worried about China within 4 turns.  If it goes to 5 turns, then yeah, you’re obviously screwed on the mainland.

[taamvan]

If you don’t attack J1, America will move all of its forces away from the ambush.  It can block supplemental forces coming in from Japan with one DD.  It would be manifestly unwise to put all of its forces where you can attack them with everything you have.  The real problem with Hawaii is taking the land space once either Japan or America occupies it with like 4 infantry and 6 fighters.  Until Japan controls that landing space, its like a giant carrier shuttle for an unlimited amount of fighters (as many as 7 bought and 2 borrowed) to come from the US and either attack you, or defend Hawaii, his choice.

If the US sees you going 100% anti-US, he can sit back in the knowledge that Japan can never win (alone) in any of the attack lines it can pursue.  If it invades, the US can turtle.  If it suppresses the US with all of its naval assets, the US turtles at sea, and can build a vicious carrier killing counterattack (with subs and fighters;  in this scenario its not wasting money on troops or transports yet).  If it turns its back on the US, the US creeps around the fringes until US5, when it is overwhelming and Japan is out of position attacking the minor powers.  If Japan waits until J3 or J4, the little powers have a chance to grab massive income compared to what they will be left with if you trim them starting round 1.

[eames57]

America should pull back and most people playing them probably would.  But I’ve played Allies who are perfectly content trading units at parity convinced that they have time on their side.  Those inexperienced with carrier hopping might not realize you can bring 4 pairs of planes instead of 2.  These are the people who might leave a fleet off Hawaii as bait in the hope that they can trade off units at parity in a counterattack, rebuilding their fleet later but crippling Japan’s offensive options in the meantime.  It’s not smart, I know, especially since my plan of killing off higher value units prevents their counterattack, but such people do exist and I believe in playing the player, not the game.
  At any rate, I’m not even advocating this strategy.  I guess my real question is what’s the quickest anyone has ever won a game, has anyone ever won it in 4 rounds and what did it look like, and has anyone ever tried anything like what I proposed and how did it turn out?

P.S.  Taamvan, J1 builds should be either 2 subs, a bomber, or a third transport with art - I haven’t put the work in to figure out which would be optimal. America can’t block a bomber of course.  If it blocks the subs, that’s one less dd in the pearl harbor attack - kill it with one sub and a couple planes from Japan (buy a carrier) and move the 2nd one to Hawaii as fodder.
    America stacking Hawaii with planes is a problem, especially since you need those transports down towards sydney as well.  But if instead of attacking any fleet off of California and just sending out blockers, you should be able to take it I think with a couple transports, your planes and your bombardments.  This is assuming he didnt build all planes A1, because this strategy only works if America isnt preparing against it.

[taamvan]

Attacking the US first, and early, might not be an awful plan;  my buddy maphead did exactly as you describe in one of our recent games he first took out the US fleet, then the next turn took Hawaii, then fortified it.

However, the problem is that while Hono is a VC, focusing all your efforts there as Japan invites a mighty 100% defensive buy from the now at-war US.  Since Japan has not readied for Calcutta, Sydney, or Siberia, there isn’t a way to achieve the other important strategic goals.  Maphead decided to make a play for Sydney via Hawaii, but a stronger player will have fortified ANZAC too much by J4 to make it takeable without 100% japan commit.

As soon as you pivot, America then takes back Hawaii, since they are dedicating everything to it (and so is Japan in the form of defensive planes etc)

Strategies that try to win the game quickly often take gigantic risks.  Strategies that win the game slowly trade time for risk.