Posts made by Vareel

This is a list of various tactics that work for the allies in dealing with a J1 war dec.  Most of these will deal with the two leading japan tactics with a J1 war dec, which are to attack phi, one DEI, and then either contain India with a major IC, or to crush India with overwhelming air power on J3.  I will list some corner cases later on.  A typical J purchase is J1: 3 trans, J2: Major IC or Airbase/Navalbase.  This is not to say the game is balanced without a doubt, I just know in the distant past many of these were discussed and people new to the board may not have seen them.  If you have something to add let me know and I will update the original post if everyone desires.

US
There are two main methods with the US, the ‘chain’ method, and the ‘northern method. 
Northern:  This works well against an India crush.  The idea is to bring as much firepower to the home island as fast as possible.  Your long term goals are to convoy raid the sea line and/or to get a factory on Korea and/or liberate some china coast.  This will give you economic parity.  On US1 purchase a carrier, you can bring 1 fig, 1 tac, and 1 bomber to SZ6 using your carrier, if you can sink the J1 purchase, do so.  Move your destroyer and some planes to kill the sub at pearl if you desire.  You will want to park the rest of your fleet in SZ 7 or SZ 15, and park your planes at Pearl.  On US2 you can hit SZ6 with 1 SS, 1 DD(if survived), 1 Cru, 1 BB, 1 AC, 3 figs, 3 tacs, and 2 bmrs.  On US2 you may want to take Iwo if you can safely, and continue a build up in SZ 7.  You will want to purchase mainly destroyers at this point with a few transports and subs.  If at anytime you can take Korea, or your fleet can move into SZ6 without it being destroyed, you should do so.  SZ6 is an 11 IPC convoy!  Japan will be hard pressed to keep you out while still committing to an India crush tactic, and typically will even be stuck to building fighters to secure the SZ instead of surface ships.

Chain: This is more of a simple strat, you simple send your fleets from LA, to Pearl, then to Australia.  You then simply trade DEI islands, take Truk, or go liberate Phi.  At no time do you send your entire fleet out unless it will survive a counter attack.  You slowly build up and push until you can take and hold a DEI island or something similar.  This method is far to slow with early pressure against Japan to work against an India crush.

China: This is a very simple country, and has one main goal.  To annoy japan as much as possible.  You have two main things you can do with this country, the slow northern push to meet up with the US, or stay south and keep the burma road open as long as possible.  The two big things to remember, against an India crush you must retake Yunnan, or atleast kill as many Japan units there as you can on turns 1 and 2, and that your plane can land in burma if that would be safe.  For the most part though, China has to follow the UK or US lead.  And remember, the US can liberate one of your territories and you can then drop units purchased into it that turn.

UK: You have 3 main tactics you can do.  Delay an India crush, kill as many planes as possible in an India crush, or hold Burma road.  For an India crush to work on J3 japan must take and hold one of 3 territories: Sham State, Yunnan, or Ceylon.  On UK1 to delay the India crush purchase 1 tank, 1 mech, and 2 inf.  Then move all India units (including AA) to Burma.  If Yunnan is held by Japan at this time, liberate it with planes and 1 inf from burma.  Also, move your DD/Cru to SZs 37 and 41 to protect Ceylon.  On UK2 simply counterattack either Yunnan or Sham State with units in Burma plus air and your tank/mech.  It is possible for japan to kill all your ground units in Burma with air on J2, but then they have to fly against the AA gun twice, very painful, and you may still have odds in liberating as they cannot land ground units there to stop your armor/mech and planes.  The other tactic, holding Burma road is simple.  Purchase 4 mech inf on UK1, move all units into Burma and Sham State.  On UK2 simply stack the daylights out of Yunnan.  You should have almost 20! allied units there.  And remember, china can move into burma if japan tries to build an IC in Malaya to help the UK hold there in later turns.  To make the India crush as painful as possible is extremely simple, build all INF.

ANZAC: This is a fun, odd, little country.  Your main goal is to stay alive, and annoy Japan.  Ensure you have enough ground units that Japan cannot overwhelm you with a drop.  You can use mech/arm for this or simply stack up in South Australia.  After that simply build subs and transports to convoy raid and/or snipe.  Do NOT send off all your planes or you will be too weak to hold off Japan!

Odd J1 attacks: (will post later)

J2 India Crush:
US First:

The power of the sub on defense is typically underestimated.  The US has to come at Japan, and Japan starts with alot of planes/carriers.  Because of this the added hits and killer attack per IPC of the sub makes it the perfect defensive buy against an aggressive US in the Pacific.  As being the ‘defending nation’ makes it easier to attack the US when they come to you.

Really what can the US do aside from build up at Solomons?  And that build-up can be easily matched/exceeded by Japan hanging out at the Philippines.

I disagree, if India falls J3 or J4 the allies have yet to get into position in sufficient force to overcome Japan’s starting naval advantage, and they have not yet had enough time with economic superiority to have a unit advantage in general.  And if India has fallen, with a major IC that close to the DEI, the DEI is lost to the allies as well.

Couple of things.

In the worse case India crush, japan cannot get a safe LZ for her planes.  This allows her to drop 6 loaded transports on India on J3 and bring 10 planes (using carriers to land).  That is 12 ground units and 10 planes against at most on India 15 ground units and 5 planes.  That is still decent odds when you can follow it up again on the following round.

@Gwlachmai
If they are going to take Shan state, they are going to take Burma as well.  The transports at Phi can reach, along with all the planes at Kwangsi.  Yes they would have to suffer AA fire, but then they don’t have to suffer it when the attack India, so the point is moot.  Yes a block on UK1 to stop them from being able to drop on Burma would work, but would not stop them as they can kill all allied boats in range of blocking the J3 assault and still pick of UK forces peacemeal if they want.  Heck, I might even still hit Burma with just air to kill all those UK units.

@Uncle Joe
Japan would still be in a good situation after this attack.  They will still have a TUV advantage in navy against the US, and they can place there builds at India starting on J4 giving them a logistical advantage.  Also, at this point the US has to ensure they can hold Pearl.  As far as China goes this does not divert a sizable quantity of units from attacking china in the least, and they now have a factory right below China saving them from worring about how to get more units into China to finish them off.  Yes the US could move its fleet into the DEI area on US3, but it would get smashed by the Japan fleet siting at India on the following turn.  There are no gains the US can make in 3 turns to offset the lose of India so soon.  Even if Japan were to lose 10 planes in this gambit, they would still have more planes and/or more boats than the US.

Ok now this can take many forms, but the basic principle is simple.  Japan finds a way to get her large airforce at India on turn 3 or turn 4, and then smashes it.  For an example of the long winded version
is this.

On J1 they declare war, hit Phi with 2 transports and take Celebes or Java.  On J2 they secure an LZ for the airforce by securing Sham State and by clearing out Burma with a drop, or taking the Cey island.  They also put an airbase and naval base in Kwangsi.  Then on turn 3 they hit India with 3 loaded transports plus around 15 planes and bombards.

The best thing I can do against this as allies is block SZ 37 so they cannot take burma and be sure to buy an armor or mech on turn 1 (as they can still clear burma with planes).  But that only delays it a turn at best.  And they can still bring 10 planes into India on J3 anyway along with 3 to 6 loaded transports.

Also credit goes to Stoney for pulling this tactic on me with the Cey island grab and inspiring me to explore other ways of doing this  :-P

The truely sad thing is with this tactic, the US cant even get into the DEI before India falls.

@Funcioneta:

That’s not totally true: you can prevent Japan taking aus, nzel, haw and Alaska and you can also conserve two NOs for USA and at least one for UK (sometimes two if Africa went well). Dutch East Indies and Philippines are there to take for the allies, and they are pretty rich

A wise Japan can see a full KGF from a kilometer and set a quick attack on mainland America. They start with 5 trannies and is not rare they buying other 2 J1, Polar Express or not. Even if the yanks manage hold the invasion, is enough for axis because for the time USA can restart the KGF, Japan tanks and bombers will be near to Moscow. The problem is Japan has enough money to attack both America and Asia at the same time, specially if yanks abandon the Pacific. And Japan is way quicker than USA

You cannot stop them from taking India, an 8 IPC swing.  You cannot stop them from getting there 1st NO that they start with, nor can you take away there island NO until late game no matter what.  As far as UK’s NO, without the US in the atlantic it is only a matter of time until Egypt falls, or even Gibralter for that matter.  For the occupied Japan territory even that is turn 3 at best for the UK to collect on and puts your boats in a bad spot.  Even with the US going 100% pacific japan can typically snipe Egypt.  As far as the 2 US NOs, you are not getting to Phi until late game if your lucky, and as for your island NO, japan can snipe it from you on J2 if they sacrifice the transports (when you start with 5 you can spare 'em) just to slow you down or to be a punk.

Italy can be taken down to 1 or 0 of her NO’s by turn 3 at the latest in a full on KGF, and Germany can be kept from getting her 3rd NO in a full blown KGF for the entire game nearly. (put 2 UK figs in Kar turn 1, turn 2 start the good ole Kar shuck).

And even in a full blown US pacfic showdown, G/I can defeat R/UK with ease, as Germany ALONE has a higher income and doesn’t have to deal with worrying about stupid can opener crap.  Also, Japan starts with more units the the pacific, and has a higher income than the US.  So please explain to me how on earth Japan falls against the US in the pacific unless she ignores it and keeps going after Russia.

And lastly, the US only has a handful of things needed to do in order to tip the balance of power in the atlantic.  They simply need to liberate Africa, sink the Italian fleet, and reinforce the UK fleet a bit.  And with any luck threaten a drop on Italy and/or France, but this is not required.  This only takes 2 to 3 turns to have setup, by then the US can and should start to look at Japan.  A polar express just brings Japan to the US.

You know, I keep hearing that but never seen a Polar Express work.

The US is just the bit of force that tips europe to the allies, typically even in a full on KGF they are better off around turn 4 ish to start putting something in the pacific.  If a polar express is going on that is even better for the US to drain japan resources.

The simple fact is the economics of the game.  You CANNOT stop japan from making alot of money, you CAN stop germany and italy from making alot of money.  You can get alot of money for the allies in Europe, you cannot in the pacific.

@Shakespeare:

How do subs deny income to India?

Dogfighting takes it toll on strategic bombing, I don’t think so.

Fighters can’t intercept strat bombers.

Subs deny income to India by convoy raiding in SZ 39.

Fighters CAN intercept strat bombers.  Tacs cannot.

@MaherC:

they work well v. india in this game.

I find subs work much better at killing India’s income.

This is simple to stop.

US1 DD block in SZ 7 & shuck some units to alaska.  Buy tanks with the US.  The key is to keep Japan from having an LZ for there planes to attack WUS with.  The moment Japan declares war the US can play hide & seek inside of canada to prevent Japan from having a place to put there planes.  No where for planes to land, no luck for Japan to win at WUS.

There are only 2 islands that I feel are worth this treatment, Carolines and Pearl.  But, the key is to put a decent amount of men on them, 4-6, and the land planes with the airbase.  This makes it a nightmare to assault.

Not true, Japan starts out with a huge advantage in the sea, they can afford a major IC and to build ground units there for a few turns before US can rival them.  And if the US ignores the north and wants to play in the south, Malaya is a perfect location for an IC.

destroyers

The largest problem I see with your strat idea, is if germany goes for a quick takedown of Russia.  How many turns can Russia survive against 10 tanks a turn coming out of berlin?  And with Italy making 20+ for 2 or 3 turns even there navy can be powerful.

I don’t think pacific is the problem, it is true that if the US goes 100% pacfic, and the UK/Russia send a bit to annoy Japan, Japan can be stalled/slowly torn apart.  The problem is, the UK/Russia cannot handle the G/I monster for very long without the US’s aid.

A simple 9 Inf, 1 Art, followed by 9-10 armor a turn by germany, will result in Russia hiding out in Moscow alone as early as turn 3, and moscow would fall a few turns after.  And with Italy making almost as much as the UK, it just writes itself.

Also note, the mostly armor buys by germany can be countered, with a full force KGF using the US.

If Japan abandons Caroline, the US should move in and take it on US2, followed up with ANZAC landing her planes there.  Carolines is a great base to launch an assault into either of the US’s NOs, threatens 2 DEI’s, and a good amount of Asia.

See I view the problem as being in Europe more than in Asia.  The simple fact of the matter is the allies have too many places they have to fight.  If they allow Italy to keep Africa for more than 2 turns making 20 IPCs europe will be a nut that is impossible to crack with the dozens of Italian infantry holding the beaches, not to mention there fleet can become very difficult to kill.  Combine that with how defensive Russia is forced to play in the early rounds due to the can opener threat, and the inability of the UK to do much harm to the G/I machine on her own, and it is very difficult for the allies to win.  Even a simple surge strat will dismantle Russia so fast it is not even funny, by that I mean G 1 buy 9 inf, 1 art, all following turns 10 tanks.  Let Italy deal with France.  And lastly, the bombers killing transports makes this even worse.

If the US does not devote a good amount of money to Europe, you will see Germany buying a bomber or two a turn.  This means the UK has to constantly purchase more boats to cover her transports, boats she cannot afford if she wants to put men into Europe.  Combine that with Germany’s income of 50 and Russia just cannot keep up, even with germany buying planes out the wazoo.  Then add in the can opener threat, and Russia cannot defend Moscow and Caucasus after turn 4 or 5.  And lastly, taking and holding france is nearly impossible for the allies, with the G/I factories right next door.

All you who say the imbalance is in Asia, explain to me how on earth the UK/Russia can fight and win in europe without a large amount of US aid.

The big thing about these heavy hitting J1s is they are gimmicky, once you have seen the plan once then you will know how to stop it a second time.  The allies will be prone to making mistakes, but after enough games I feel you will see how to exploit each and every J1 plan.

No matter what, Japan is on an economic time table.  They need to get there income into the 60s ASAP.  The best way to do that is to take the DEI.  Then they need capitals, the easiest one is India.

Use the ANZAC to harass Japan, put subs in convoy spots, block with DDs, grab islands with sacrifical transports.  Anything you can.

Use the UK to bloody there nose.  Create large stacks on burma road, or even in India itself.  You must be a magnet and draw Japan’s resources.

The US has to get the big hits in.  As early as US2 you can strike Carolines with your starting fleet and all your surviving starting planes.  Aside from that you must establish naval superiority against Japan and get the big hit in.

@MaherC:

how you are taking DEI on US3 with the LC in Hawaii dead on J1.

LC?  What is an LC?  I’ve said this before but I guess i’ll repeat

US1 Fleet from SZ 10 to SZ 26 OR 29
US2 Fleet from SZ 26/29 to SZ 54 or SZ 63
US3 take one of the DEI.

Answer my questions now if you don’t mind so I can better assist you.

Ok here is the thing, with mainly Inf buys there is no way India is falling unit J5 at the earliest, and in all likely hood not until turn 6 or 7.  On J1 they will buy whatever they buy, but more than likely no fighting boats.  On J2 they will buy a major factory and little to no warships.  On J3 they will buy ground units for Asia and once again, likely no fighting boats.  On J4 they might start buying some navy.

That means the US gets 3 turns to play catchup in the pacific.  Or with my main purchases 11 destroyers and 1 extra carrier.  Giving them, on US 5, a fleet of 12 destroyers, 1 BB, 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, and 1 sub at Queensland.  Wow imagine that, DEI is no longer safe, at all.  Not to mention, on US3 we stole Java or Sumatra (fun thing to do depending on japan’s fleet positioning is to fly ANZAC figs to Sumatra after US takes it, but depends).  This isn’t counting whatever ANZAC has purchased.

What turn does India typically fall in your games?  What are you doing with India?  What is happening in China?  These are important details you are not telling us.  And download Abattlemap, even if you don’t play with it it will show you the board.