Operation Sealion a Possibility with AA1940 Europe?

@SilverAngelSurfer:

The potential problem will be how the Allied naval position looks in 1940: Italy will be no help with being stuck in the Med by Gibraltar, extra sea zones between Germany and UK (Baltic will be 3 sz itself), and with whatever extra navy UK gets plus the new French navy, Germany might still have some major issues just getting to the UK to start with…

Maybe the French have a BB and destroyer which will join the UK when Paris is conquered. Or a penalty for Capital German warships could be created. In the real war Hitler had minor interest in a huge German navy.

I would think the RAF will be a force to be reckoned with, although it can’t scramble from England (unless Larry’s holding out on that). UK could pull in more nearby air if it needs to. Keep in mind that the Germans would have to sail out of the Baltic into an expanded North Sea. There will be several sz for the UK to block movement w/DD (stall). I suppose Italy might be able to send up a few ftrs to can opener for them (plan ahead), but the UK player should see a potential sea lion coming. If Germany starts building transports in the Baltic (don’t think they’ll start with enough) that should be a pretty good clue.

The only surprise would be if Germany got paratroopers (global) and was able to use them right away. That could swing a potential sea lion big time if all of a sudden Germany could para from like 2 AB in Germany, 1 in France, and maybe 1 in Norway. Hell w/4 AB (8 inf) even if Germany had to wait a round to use para it could possibly pull it off. Of course I don’t know how many AB Germany will have in range at start, but it could build some as well.

Now that UK has to split it’s income with India, Operation Sea Lion may become more viable.

Was reading  a thread where larry said that if  Russia isn’t at war by collect income phase on the 4th turn i believe then she will be at war with Germany. So this means 4 turns to gear up fo a sealion ,and crush France .!!EDIT!!- in the FAQ pg.3 reply #43

Possible Sealion in E40- of course- if you want to lose.
It will be possible- probably not very winnable though.
:-)

@questioneer:

Possible Sealion in E40- of course- if you want to lose.
It will be possible- probably not very winnable though.
:-)

Care to expound on that comment.

Back in the days of Revised there was a decent “Sealion” gambit going around.  I believe Larry made sure this time that the Sealion gambit could be possible but not w/o serious repercussions.  Best to ask him on his site though.

Well that option only existed because of the possibility of a high bid for Germany ( buying a transport), and adding the existing tech rules that allow developments to take place on the turn you successfully rolled for long range aircraft.

The number of spaces to invade England from the AAE40 setup for German naval would preclude this option. This would be based on Larry’s commentary regarding how out of range British air forces are from the German fleet on G1

@Imperious:

Well that option only existed because of the possibility of a high bid for Germany ( buying a transport), and adding the existing tech rules that allow developments to take place on the turn you successfully rolled for long range aircraft.

The number of spaces to invade England from the AAE40 setup for German naval would preclude this option. This would be based on Larry’s commentary regarding how out of range British air forces are from the German fleet on G1

Well, that means a G1 Sealion like in Revised is out, so UK gets some time to prepare at least.

In the end I feel that just as it would have been in real life, an incredible amount of luck will be needed to successfully execute. It can be done, but probably with odds of one in ten. But that’s just my guess, could be better, could be worse.

In the original A&A game, my Germany turn #1 was dedicated to eliminating the UK fleet and beginning my attack on Russia. Never gave Sea Lion much of a thought. I am wondering now how feasible it was. I am thinking it was not or I would have tried it.

I think that a sea lion could be possible for Germany rd #3.

G1-take Paris, and the French Atlantic coast (should be a minor IC on coast).
G1-attack/destroy the UK fleet (as much as possible)
G1-roll for tech-(paratroopers), but LRA could come in handy
G1-add to German navy/air (maybe a/c) in Baltic (should start w/BB and several support ships I hope)
G1-attack UK convoys that you can, and UK NO’s
G1-start ground march to Russia (to at least set-up def)

It1-attempt to take Gibraltar and more of the UK navy
It1-start reducing UK $ in Africa/Mid East
It1-attack UK convoys/NO’s that you can

G2-move German navy (with a/c) to French coast w/IC (English Chanel) (could also move to North Sea as Germany will have access to it with West German IC)
G2-position German air and left over ground units on French coast that just destroyed France to get in range and board trpts
G2-roll tech again (looking for paratroopers)
G2-SBR UK, to reduce UK $, and air force with escorts/interceptors, Germany may have superiority
G2-build 3 more transports on the French coast tt w/IC (or West German tt North Sea port) to put w/navy

It2-continue giving UK hell w/attacks and convoy/NO disruption
It2-maybe set-up a secondary Italian sea lion as well (just in case) if feasible or meet-up w/German navy if Italy took Gilb.

G3- if it looks like you have a chance to take UK down, go for it. If not you can always back track through the Baltic to attack Russia. You could also go north and land in Scandinavia. So at this point you have options.

UK will be building through this process, and making counter attacks. A Sea lion attempt will ultimately depend on the starting strengths of the German/UK navies and air forces, or their ability to get superiority. Italy could play a part by getting to Gibraltar, and cutting off the UK naval reinforcements.  I’m still not sure if you can pull off a Sea Lion w/o paratroopers.

@SgtBlitz:

Germany could probably industrialize some coastal territory off France/NWE and stack its navy off of it; but it’s still going to be expensive and impractical.  A factory could have better options: it could build more land units instead to hold France in case the Allies build a naval superstack in response to a potential Sealion.

What do you guys think?  Not sure if I’m good with the new AA40 ruleset either, it might not be possible for Germany to place a major factory off the coast like I suggested.

SgtBlitz, from my understanding the French coastal tt will start w/minor French IC, and the Paris tt (land locked tt) will have a major IC. Germany will get them both very early on. Also West Germany will have access to an expanded North Sea, so it will be able to build ships in the North sea between Denmark and the Low countries (kinda reflects the Kiel Canal I guess). This will be cool, could even come with a North Sea port.

You think that France is going to fall that easily? Didn’t they have troops in Africa

@idk_iam_swiss:

You think that France is going to fall that easily? Didn’t they have troops in Africa

Larry said France will fall regardless, it just might take an extra turn if the dice arent on your side.

Yeah from the sound of it they will fall by turn 2 unless you deliberately avoid conflict with them.

@idk_iam_swiss:

You think that France is going to fall that easily? Didn’t they have troops in Africa

It won’t be a cake walk, but yea I think France will loose the Paris tt, and the French coast tt rd #1. The Paris  tt should border West Germany (ouch), and the French coastal tt should boarder the low countries that will start out in German hands. The full blitzkrieg (tanks/tacs) should overwhelm the French (pending dice). I also think the Germans will have some inf on the front as well.  Italy should be able to come in and take southern France (Vichy) on it first turn as well. The scattered French units in Africa will be more of a nuisance then anything just backing up UK (they can’t replenish). Same with the starting French fleet, I see it as a shell of what it actually was. I would expect the (allied) French fleet to reflect the reduction due to the UK attacking it, and much of it kept in port or scuttled.

Now that we know that the US or Russia can’t attack the Euro axis until rd #4 (unless provoked). The UK is really the only main focus. Japan wipes out China, Germany/Italy wipes out France. Then its UK’s turn.

Yea you have to make sure that you keep enough troops on the Russian boarder, but as the axis you can take your enemies to their knees one at a time. You almost have to attempt a Sea Lion, there is no one else to fight. You must at the very least kick them out of strategic areas, like the Med, Middle East, and Africa, but you can’t take a pass at London if it doable. This might be a kill UK first, then go for India once everyone is at war. Saying that, however, if UK falls its not game over, US/Russia will be powerhouses, but you have to take advantage of the delay for them to enter the game.

UK’s strategy will be as it is in Pac 40 (India), stay alive as long as you can and wait for your friends to bail you out (RD #4). The only difference is they will have more units, and may be able to delay the inevitable long enough for their allies to prevent their destruction. Either that or enough time to setup a quick liberation that they could be a part of.