Let's talk Convoys

To make it simple i suggest these.

*SZ8, 28, SZ2–UK
*SZ3, --USSR
*SZ65 or 56–US

*SZ38, 49, 61, 62 (if Jap controlled)–Japan
*SZ14 --for Italy
*SZ5–Germany

To keep it simple, why not just give an IPC value to a sea zone?

The sea zone would have an original controller, and an attacker who moved a warship (subs included) into the sea zone would place a control marker on the sea zone, and would then be in control of the sea zone and would collect the IPC from the sea zone.  (Perhaps if the warship leaves the sea zone or is destroyed, then control of the sea zone reverts back to the original controller.)

@Bardoly:

To keep it simple, why not just give an IPC value to a sea zone?
 
The sea zone would have an original controller, and an attacker who moved a warship (subs included) into the sea zone would place a control marker on the sea zone, and would then be in control of the sea zone and would collect the IPC from the sea zone.  (Perhaps if the warship leaves the sea zone or is destroyed, then control of the sea zone reverts back to the original controller.)

Hmm, interesting idea, and instead of collecting IPC from the bank (can’t think of a better term), you would collect it from the original owner of the territory.  If for example Sz 2 (Revised) is UK (let’s say value of 1), if a German sub controls it, UK’s income would drop by 1 and UK would also need to pay Germany, when Germany collects cash at the end of the round?  Can anyone say piracy?

Or instead of giving each Sz a value, you would need to control certain Sz’s to get X income (similar to the Italian NO in AA50 but involving certain specific Szs.

Or what about instead of a certain country receving the money, it goes into the Allies or Axis pot to be used by any Allies or Axis country?

On the same thought, what about air drops of IPC by bmb’s instead of SBR, the opposite.  Your allies can send a bmb and it can SIR (strategic income run?) and air drops 1d6 amount of IPC (it would be subtracted from the owner of  the bmb) also it would be limited to the IPC value of the territory.

Limitation being the bmb has to start off in the owner’s territory (original or controlled) that has an IC and the territory being SIRed also needs an IC.

Sort of like a money train.

Sorry Bardoly for going off topic but your thread got my brain thinking.

The sea zone would have an original controller, and an attacker who moved a warship (subs included) into the sea zone would place a control marker on the sea zone, and would then be in control of the sea zone and would collect the IPC from the sea zone.

Their is no income to be taken. The enemy merchant ships are sunk and this loss is akin to losing IPC in the game. So their is no collection, but the sea zones that are assigned just need a token to designate them, which does not require map modifications and that must be the goal to make the variant accessible to most.

Well, in my vision on convoy sea zones, in order to keep the game as simple as possible, gaining IPC for controlling the sea zone would make sense.  i.e. A sea zone which starts in UK’s control - the IPC gain would model the US and Canada’s help which was sent to the UK during the war.  If Germany (or Italy) were to gain control of that sea zone and gain IPCs thereby, then that would model the moral boost to Germany’s economy hearing that they were winning the war in the Atlantic.  The same would apply to the Mediteranean and the Pacific.  I’m not suggesting that every or most of the sea zones be worth IPCs, just a few of them.

Here are my suggestions.  Of course some territory IPC values might have to be slightly tweaked.

SU - none
UK - sz8 and sz9 worth 1-2 IPCs each
US - sz56 and sz53 worth 2 IPCs each

Germany - none (maybe sz5 - worth 1-2 IPCs) if there is some sort of canal rule for the strait)
Japan - sz59, 60, 61, 62 worth 1 IPC each
Italy - sz 14 worth 1-2 IPCs

to keep it simple you make it like AAE or AAP which is a REDUCTION of enemy IPC when the space is occupied.

How many IPCs were reduced per zone in Pacific and Europe?

I do agree with y’all, that reducing IPCs is better game-wise, but trying to implement this in a very simple way is what I’m really trying for.

@LuckyDay:

I’m with IL, there is no piracy on the waters, the uboats are not stopping to check the holds, just sending them to the bottom. For the UK, if they didn’t have shipping to the island, they were out of the war.  Same with Russia, so many supplies were sent through the Novosibirsk in the Pacific and through the North Atlantic that they wouldn’t have survived.

I’m modeling the IPC gain as a morale boost because your ships are winning the sea war.

@Bardoly:

I’m modeling the IPC gain as a morale boost because your ships are winning the sea war.

morale boost!, are you serious

that is not logical at all, why  does succesful naval stratigic warfare of all things give you a morale boost

@Emperor_Taiki:

@Bardoly:

I’m modeling the IPC gain as a morale boost because your ships are winning the sea war.

morale boost!, are you serious

that is not logical at all, why  does succesful naval stratigic warfare of all things give you a morale boost

Well, when the citizens of a country at war hear heartening news from the front, it usually encourages them to work harder and longer back in the factorys.  I know that the opposite can also be true somewhat, but once again, I’m just trying to come up with a SIMPLE way to add something to the game which IMHO belongs.

Don’t forget that it’s just as crazy for a country to take a territory away from another country, gain the IPCs for the territory, and then the other country take it right back on their turn and gain the same IPCs as well.  Think France in AA50 - Germany collects 6 IPCs (+5 NO IPCs) on it’s turn, then UK captures France and also collects 6 (+5 NO IPCs), Italy liberates France (collects +5 NO IPCs), and then the US re-captures France on it’s turn collecting 6 (+5 NO IPCs).  So, in one turn, France produced at least 18 IPCs (38 IPCs if you count the NO’s.)  Now which is more crazy?  A morale boost because the German submarine wolfpacks are winning the Battle for the Atlantic?  or one territory - France in one round of play producing as many IPCs as any 1 other country normally would? (except Godzilla Japan of course  :-P)

Bardoly, you missed the point. why does morale boost only result from stratgic naval warfare, why does it not apply to stratgic bombings or regualr battles.

and just because A&A is illogical in one area does not meen house get to be illogical, one of the reasons play with house rules is so the game makes more sence.

In any book of WW2 they only have facts resulting in huge loses of shipping for the nation that LOST the resources that were just sunk, No literature exists that INSTEAD totally discounts these loses and attributes the GAIN in national prestige and (hence income) for the nation that sunk these ships.

So essentially if Germany sinks British ships it does not get richer, while the British get poorer… This can only mean the convoy zones are sappers of potential IPC.

Thanks.  I guess each zone must have a different value.  Alas, more charts.

When adding these convoy zones, does UK, US, ect, get extra IPCs?

@LuckyDay:

@Bardoly:

Don’t forget that it’s just as crazy for a country to take a territory away from another country, gain the IPCs for the territory, and then the other country take it right back on their turn and gain the same IPCs as well.  Think France in AA50 - Germany collects 6 IPCs (+5 NO IPCs) on it’s turn, then UK captures France and also collects 6 (+5 NO IPCs), Italy liberates France (collects +5 NO IPCs), and then the US re-captures France on it’s turn collecting 6 (+5 NO IPCs).  So, in one turn, France produced at least 18 IPCs (38 IPCs if you count the NO’s.)  Now which is more crazy?  A morale boost because the German submarine wolfpacks are winning the Battle for the Atlantic?  or one territory - France in one round of play producing as many IPCs as any 1 other country normally would? (except Godzilla Japan of course  :-P)

Actually, I believe that if Italy liberated France, then it reverts to German control and no IPCs are given out at that time for it, so it’s just the two Allied invasions that garner additional IPCs.

I was counting Italy’s NO for Axis control of France.

@Emperor_Taiki:

Bardoly, you missed the point. why does morale boost only result from stratgic naval warfare, why does it not apply to stratgic bombings or regualr battles.

and just because A&A is illogical in one area does not meen house get to be illogical, one of the reasons play with house rules is so the game makes more sense.

No, the point was to keep the game as SIMPLE as possible.  While still having some historical sense.

And as my example showed, morale boost does result from regular battles in the trading territories mechanic.

Once again, I PREFER the game having a sea battle mechanic which models the war in the Atlantic where many, many tons of shipping were destroyed, and I think that IPC reduction would be better, but in the interest of SIMPLICITY, I feel that an IPC gain would be closer to the OOB rules.

If anyone else has a simpler way to do this, then do tell.

And as my example showed, morale boost does result from regular battles in the trading territories mechanic.

Show how sinking thousands of merchant ships exactly ADDS to your IPC?

Use the historical record to illustrate these points.

If anyone else has a simpler way to do this, then do tell.

yes exactly the opposite, the guy who occupies the convoy zone, causes damage to the owning player, exactly like it is in AAE and AAP, and all the Xeno games