• I beleive this could be a factor, but you are still overestimating land based aircraft.

    In this case yes, but only because of Goering “whatever flies belongs to me” and due to his pigheaded behavior, the capabilities of the Luftwaffe were stymied into planes that were not utilized into torpedo bombing planes. To see what air power does you have to look exclusively at the pacific campaign. Where do you see that air power was weaker compared to naval power in naval combat?


  • @Imperious:

    In this case yes, but only because of Goering “whatever flies belongs to me” and due to his pigheaded behavior, the capabilities of the Luftwaffe were stymied into planes that were not utilized into torpedo bombing planes. To see what air power does you have to look exclusively at the pacific campaign. Where do you see that air power was weaker compared to naval power in naval combat?

    I am not saying airpower was weaker compared to naval power, I agree with you, carriers raped battleships, torpedo bombers were to surface ships as knifes are through warm butter. But in the pacfic all these planes came from carriers or from inland airbases. These location were extremly close to the front line and so planes could engage targets multiple times through out a given day.

    I am talking about aircraft based from land, in axis and allies, aircraft traveling thousands of miles to there target are just as effective as aircraft fighting from and a carrier or inland airbase that are already at the battle. If a plane flew from Norway or France  to fright a naval battle in the middle of the North atlantic, it would have enough fuel to do maybe two strafing runs, while aircraft on a carrier however, could fight until the world ended.

    my suggest is simply land based fighters and bombers attack navies at 1 for fighters and 2 for bombers.


  • Yea on that point its probably correct due to the specialized training on bombing sea targets and torpedo runs.

    2 and 1 is a bit extreme. id say -1 for both, so fighters are 2, bombers are 3


  • 2 and 3 is still two powerful and allows crazy things like the German baltic fleet being obliterated by Britsh air units.
    Fighters on land should represent air-superiority aircraft, while bombers should represent stratigic aircraft and ground attack(dive bombers whould also tend to be more useful agaisnt ships so thats why they get 2). Therefore only the aircraft on carriers and inlands are antiship and torpedo aircraft


  • Well thats true, but thats fixed by the game using ports and preventing allies in the Baltic like it exists with Turkey or controlling both sides before entering rules.

    Land based air should only be able to cross ONE SEA ZONE for combat movement is another way around this.

    Making changes from OOB can be addressed many ways to prevent bogus looking moves.


  • I think its simpler and more logical to reduce there combat rating when attacking surface targets. The same should be true for attacking gorund units as long as the aircraft can pick their target


  • The same should be true for attacking gorund units as long as the aircraft can pick their target

    But they don’t do this. If you have to pick one rule to solve all problems the easy way is leave everything OOB and just say: Air units attacking cannot cross more than one sea zone. That solves all the problems you address with minimal impact on all other aspects of the game.

    Now German fleet cannot be sunk, unless UK takes Norway first which makes sence

    Also bombers cant perform all sorts of weird movements attacking the Italians and must base in africa, because they are now crossing 2 sea zones to hit Italian fleet.

    Most people are looking at minimal changes to address glitches and ahistorical rubbish


  • Well its pretty glitchy and a historical for a fighter wing to mow down a whole army group or even bother firing at infantry.

    but I get what your saying, i just think in an advanced rule set fighter and bomber surface attacks should be reduced to one and two.


  • one ‘fighter’ is like 1,500-2,500 front line planes

    one infantry is an army of 35,000-50,000 men

    at the Bulge on the 23rd of Dec allied sorties demolished the 6th Panzer Army spearhead and if augmented with ground units air power was devastating to ground troops and they had no defense against it except with counter air power.


  • yah, so planes should be able to target other planes, tanks and artillery becasue thats what they were devistating against.

    If i was defending against only infantry I would rather have the machineguns and autocannons of the aircraft given to my infantry rather than have them used on the planes. Why would u not do this?

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