IC in Norway for Germany?

@creeping-deth87:

I was thinking the other day about building an IC in the 41 scenario in Norway. Being able to place 3 units there gives it some strategic value with an IC there, as you can use it to hold Scandinavia from the British (and thereby delay any invasions into France) or if the Brits give up on it you can use it to funnel units into a Northern front against Russia. Thoughts?

If I were the British player I would make your Norwegian IC my top priority… and since it’s not your (German) top priority (which is taken Moscow), I’ll eventually take it and use it to funnel units into Leningrad to support Russia myself.

@Gallo:

@creeping-deth87:

I was thinking the other day about building an IC in the 41 scenario in Norway. Being able to place 3 units there gives it some strategic value with an IC there, as you can use it to hold Scandinavia from the British (and thereby delay any invasions into France) or if the Brits give up on it you can use it to funnel units into a Northern front against Russia. Thoughts?

If I were the British player I would make your Norwegian IC my top priority… and since it’s not your (German) top priority (which is taken Moscow), I’ll eventually take it and use it to funnel units into Leningrad to support Russia myself.

Yeah, that sounds about right.  It will be a very difficult complex for Germany to hold, and unlike, say, a complex in France, it’ll be very difficult to retake if lost.

Cool an IC in Norway, I am sure UK or even better USA will be very happy with that one! :-)

@Driel310:

Cool an IC in Norway, I am sure UK or even better USA will be very happy with that one! :-)

smart a$$  :lol:

Seriously though. Let’s be constructive and try to see if we can’t figure out a way, if at all possible, to make this work. Two things are certain though:

1.) The British and/or Americans cannot be allowed to capture it. So that requires a lot of effort. And

2.) It does provide Germany the ability to open a new front with which to launch attacks (later). In addition to attracting the Americans and British away from lucrative IPCs and distractions from the Eastern Front.

IMO it takes too long for a British landing to gather against Norway with out the distinct possibility of being attacked by planes (my personal favorite).

I hope this helps for my first, but not last, post

@TheEaglesNest:

Seriously though. Let’s be constructive and try to see if we can’t figure out a way, if at all possible, to make this work. Two things are certain though:

1.) The British and/or Americans cannot be allowed to capture it. So that requires a lot of effort. And

That effort is what ultimately sinks the idea.  Germany now has an obligation to defend Norway, probably with a minimum of 9 units, and possibly more.  That means that the Norway complex won’t end up adding units to the Eastern front until four turns after it gets built (Since you have to pull those 9 units off the Eastern front for immediate protection).

Germany is going to have a very rough time protecting Norway, France, and Germany from the allies while the IC gets up to speed.  Keep in mind that the allies can very feasibly cut off your ability to reinforce Norway and whittle it down if they need to.

2.) It does provide Germany the ability to open a new front with which to launch attacks (later). In addition to attracting the Americans and British away from lucrative IPCs and distractions from the Eastern Front.

Capturing Norway is often an early allied step towards helping the Eastern front - the IC just makes an already standard allied option more tempting.

IMO it takes too long for a British landing to gather against Norway with out the distinct possibility of being attacked by planes (my personal favorite).

The British can build a fleet in the upper-left corner of Britian, meaning it’s safe from most German fighters.  That fleet can threaten both Norway and France, as well as Finland if he wants to land a force now, and a force to combine it with next turn.

If people want to try this, by all means - give it a shot.  I suspect that it simply won’t work, and will probably hinder the Germans even if they manage to keep it.

I hope this helps for my first, but not last, post

If you are hell bent on putting an IC in Norway as Germany you have to:

1. Have a strong Baltic fleet.  This is so you can “Land Bridge” from Berlin to Norway. With 5 transports you can move an additional 10 INF every turn.

2. Now you can’t move into Russia via the southern route because you are sending you units north. I’m sure someone will want to debate this but the fact of the game is stacks win wars. One small stack in the South and another in the North is just waiting to be widdled down by the allies and a nightmare for German logistics since you have to pick and choose what front needs them more.

3. Normally I would put the German Luft Waffe in France to watch over the Atlantic, with this method you should leave them in Berlin.  They can still reach France but can now also reach Norway and any advancing Allied fleet moving to the Baltic Fleet.  Plus your Capital is beefed up.

4. Italy may be on their own for a wile until Germany can spare some units when they feel the IC is safe.

LT

Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper for Germany to just take the Russian IC in Karelia if you wanted to produce units in that area?

I like EaglesNest’s approach, so let’s look into it a bit further.

What if, Germany’s main goal isn’t to kill Russia?
What if…you go for a KBF?

You have Japan go full force against the USA to keep 'em busy.
You have Italy go for Africa, to soak up Britain’s income.
Seeing the lack of Russia’s initial lack of atacking units, you could easily keep 'em back for a while with little effort.

Two worries though. You might be a bit short in Germany’s income, seeing how you neglect their only chance of extra income (the Russian battlefront), and you might not want to build the IC in G1, as that will immediately put all Allied focus on it, without having time as the Axis to prep.

Just some thoughts…

It could easily be my lack of taking risks, but I don’t usually dive headlong into Russia because I have to fend off British and American fleets. That’s why developing a vicious airforce is crucial. With this plan you have to have a divided airforce between Norway and France to be able to attack all seazones around Britain for when they build new ships. I think this approach could be used successfully against the British.

@Woodstock:

I like EaglesNest’s approach, so let’s look into it a bit further.

What if, Germany’s main goal isn’t to kill Russia?
What if…you go for a KBF?

Then I think a complex in France is better suited for the fight.  It’s easier to defend and retake, and can produce more units.  Without exactly remembering the map, I think it gives Germany access to more sea zones as well, but I’m not sure of that.  It’s also better suited for threatening both the UK and US, whereas a Norway complex can really only threaten the UK.

As the allies I wouldn’t be very impressed by a German factory purchase. France, Norway, Poland, none of them look all that promising.

Every time a new world map comes out we go through this same thing… Can Germany buy a Factory?
Nope, sorry. Either you or your opponent would have to be batshit crazy to let something like that happen.  :-D

Now if Industrial Complexes were cheaper, or if you had the ability to destroy your own factories to prevent them from falling into enemy hands, then we’d see all sorts of factory purchases. But so far the designer has come down against this idea. I’m not sure why though. To me the factory unit has more potential than any of the other units currently in use, and yet its continually neglected. When Revised first came out I was hoping for a reduction in cost down to 12 ipcs. Then again, when AA50 was announced, I got my hopes up, only to have them dashed once more. Under the current rules Factories don’t seem analogous to anything all that meaningful. They are just too expensive, and too dangerous if captured, to justify buying new ones. Maybe for the Japanese or the British, but certainly not for Germany.

I’ve recommended to Larry a Scorched Earth rule (destroyable factories) which I think would make IC purchases more viable, but who knows if it will get any serious consideration. I would hope that he waits a little while to gather actual feedback, before putting out any tournament rules for AA50.

Norway is very difficult to take back if lost.  The Allies could take it and keep it.

@a44bigdog:

Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper for Germany to just take the Russian IC in Karelia if you wanted to produce units in that area?

Heck it even saves ya 15 IPC’s :wink:

Norway is very difficult to take back if lost.  The Allies could take it and keep it.

But 2 rtrn, and ac g1, then it will be hard for Brits to hold norway.

in 1941 norway finnland is a “worse” place for uk/usa to funnel troops to due to the additional distance to go towards germany,. also since trn´s no longer works as cover, it´s harder to keep a fleeet alive for uk/usa.

So it´t´s viable but not neccesary since german ic works better, and i would agree a Ic in france would work better, but i would rather put one in balkans thought,  sió germany can put so e troops into africa if needed.

@Nix:

Norway is very difficult to take back if lost.  The Allies could take it and keep it.

But 2 rtrn, and ac g1, then it will be hard for Brits to hold norway.

So you’d hold it (maybe - UK can build more planes in response), but this is becoming a very costly endeavor.  That’s 41 IPCs worth of income for the IC and ships.

You’re pitting Germany’s income more directly against the UK’s, a fight which Germany could potentially win, except that Russia is going to have a big edge in the Eastern Front.