Weapons development

@d142:

has anyone devised any way’s to get weapons development without having to get the exact number on the dice,
maybe having to roll a possible of 2 or 3 number’s or using ipc’s to buy technology, what work’s best?.
i dont mind rolling for one number, but it does get frustrating when your rolling 10-15 ipc’s worth of dice every turn to get a development and the number never come’s up.

This is how Axis and Allies Revised Enhanced fixes this problem:

8. The 4:2 Tech Rule
-The first time you roll for a particular Tech, you MUST purchase a minimum of 4 rolls that turn
-The second time you roll for that Tech, you MUST purchase a minimum of 2 rolls that turn, but you receive the Tech automatically
-You MAY purchase ALL 6 rolls in ONE turn, and receive the Tech automatically
-In all cases, Tech doesn’t come into effect until the Mobilize Units Phase you receive it (as per LHTR rules)

Personally, I consider it a good rule.

You could try implementing the AA50 tech rules if you want.  (Every 5 IPC gives you a tech token, for every tech token you have in weapons development, you roll a die for your tech, once you get the tech discard all tokens).  That guarantees you will get the tech eventually.

@d142:

@Rakeman:

8. The 4:2 Tech Rule
-The first time you roll for a particular Tech, you MUST purchase a minimum of 4 rolls that turn
-The second time you roll for that Tech, you MUST purchase a minimum of 2 rolls that turn, but you receive the Tech automatically
-You MAY purchase ALL 6 rolls in ONE turn, and receive the Tech automatically
-In all cases, Tech doesn’t come into effect until the Mobilize Units Phase you receive it (as per LHTR rules)

in this scenario, it means that after 6 roll’s, if they are all unsuccessful the tech is developed regardless.
can this be used in conjunction with the official rule aswell, you know, if i need tech and i am low in ipc’s, if i have only 5- 15 ipc’s to spare can i spend that and take my chances and try to get tech with only 1 dice roll?.,

@Rakeman:

You could try implementing the AA50 tech rules if you want.  (Every 5 IPC gives you a tech token, for every tech token you have in weapons development, you roll a die for your tech, once you get the tech discard all tokens).  That guarantees you will get the tech eventually.

does that mean that i can buy tech tokens and save them until a later round and roll as many dice as i want for 1 tech or can i buy tech tokens for multiple techs and roll for them on any round?.

Officially, no.  You MUST buy 4 rolls the first time, and 2 the second time.  However, in Enhanced, some techs only cost 4 IPC per roll, while others cost 5.  Of course, you can play however you want.

Let me copy and paste the tech rules from AA50:

Item: The way the new research system works is this: you buy research tokens. For each token you have, you get to roll one die. On a six, you get a research breakthrough. If your die roll misses, you roll again the next round. And the next, and the next, until you finally get a research breakthrough. Once you finally do, all your research tokens go away, and you get a new technology in their place. To determine which technology you get, you choose from one of two charts. (There are six items per chart.) After choosing an item, you roll a die. Whatever number comes up on the die is the technology you get.

1. Each researcher costs 5 IPCs, each means you get one roll for R&D per turn until you succeed, at which time you must buy new ones. (Not as before where IPCs spent on R&D only bought one roll.)
2. Once you succeed you choose from one of two charts and then roll a die to determine which tech you actually get (not as in AAR where you research a specific tech).
   Item: The Weapons Development rules are similar to the scheme in 2nd Edition. The development you get is random, and it takes effect immediately.

In AA50, however, as you can see, the techs are randomly acquired, you don’t pick a tech.  That is a downer to me.

I was playing around with a rule similar to the one in the Revised Historical house rule set.  Basically, that works where your tech rolls are either hits or misses, and you get a point for every hit.  Once you get _ points, you get the tech.

So that could be implemented like this:

Buy dice at the start of your turn for 5 IPC each.  For every 1-3, you get one point for a technology you desire.  Once you have a total of 3 points, that technology is yours.

On average, this will cost the same amount as the standard rules, because you will on average need to buy 6 die to get a hit.  However, the advantage is that you don’t need an exact number, and your progress is saved turn by turn.

Buy dice at the start of your turn for 5 IPC each.  For every 1-3, you get one point for a technology you desire.  Once you have a total of 3 points, that technology is yours.

On average, this will cost the same amount as the standard rules, because you will on average need to buy 6 die to get a hit.  However, the advantage is that you don’t need an exact number, and your progress is saved turn by turn.

The reason why i prefer this approach have many reasons:

Technology is no longer a surprise. AS you get close to the technology the other side can play along with a tech race, but it will be more clear when your close to getting the bomb and can adjust technology. The solution where you basically got it from nothing before can lead to game play situations that crap out the game with an unprepared result of technology.

Second, it removes the type of person who gambles on a poor position with the hope that he may get lucky and immediately turn the game over. I prefer to cut that sort of thing out with a slow progression of effort and ability to track progress toward technology.

Thirdly, Historically it was a progression rather than an immediate “poof” here are your atomic bombs. If you gain a level of technology, your opponent will invest as well but not have to scrap all his money to guarantee the result in order to compete under the previous system where you either have or you dont.

@d142:

thank’s, i think i will try these rules, the aarhe variant look’s ideal, the aare option is good aswell, because i have in the past bought 4 dice, and missed, then bought another 2 or 3 dice and missed again, and lost a lot of ground in the process.
and by the next research tech phase, i cant risk the ipc’s on more tech roll’s.

Please report how the rules work out for you.  I’ve been typing up house rules for various A&A games that I’ve been meaning to play with, I may add this to the list.

I will toss one more idea into the pot, as it is something that I have been thinking about for the A&A games where tech in built into the game:  Classic, Revised, and A&A50.

Buy a research token for 5 IPC, and roll one dice.  One turn on, you need a 6.  Keep the token, and on turn 2, roll one die, and succeed on a 5 or a 6.  Keep the token, and on turn 3, roll one die and succeed on a 4 to 6 roll, and so on.  If you get to turn 6, you will automatically get the tech that you want.  If you succeed earlier, the turn in which you succeed dictates the die roll you need to select the desired tech.  On turn One, a 6, on turn Two, a 5 or 6, and so on.  If you do not succeed on the roll to choose the tech, you roll for a random tech, which still gives you the possibility of getting the desired tech.  You can buy multiple research tokens and use each for a differing tech.  You have about a 75% chance by turn three to get a tech, with a roughly 60% chance of getting the desired tech.

Basically, this represents a sustained research effort, with the longer in goes on the more likely you are to succeed with the desired tech.  The earlier you succeed, the higher the chance for a different tech breakthrough.

For A&A Pacific, I have worked up a random event card chart, including techs, and I am working on one for Europe, tailoring the chart to each game.  I am doing the same for Classic and Revised, but with different techs on the random event chart, but also a card which if drawn, allows you to select a tech from the game tech chart.

What do y’all think about this house rule for technologies.

My friends and I really like playing with techs, but we hate the thought of just spending money but getting absolutely nothing for it or getting a tech which is almost useless (i.e. America rolling Radar), so we modified the new AA50 tech system, and this is what we came up with.

Use the normal AA50 rules for tech to see if you receive a tech by rolling a “6”.
After you roll a “6” and choose the Land chart or the Air/Naval chart, you roll 1 die for each of your research tokens, and then you may choose the tech you would like to receive from the numbers that your dice show.  For example, if you paid for 3 Research Tokens, and then you finally roll a “6”, and you choose the Air/Naval chart, then you roll 3 dice, and you roll a “4”, a “5”, and a “6”, then you may choose what you would like from the following:  Shipyards, Super Subs, or Jet Fighters.  If you happened to roll 3 “5’s”, then God must have wanted you to get Super Subs.

We like this system, but what do y’all think?

I’m thinking about a system where all rolls are free, and based on your country’s income.  This is because, obviously, the choice wasn’t “develop technology or put those scientists in shermans and liberate europe”.