@squirecam:
@Rakeman:
@Krieghund:
the US can’t ignore it and just let Japan have all of those VCs.
Why not?
If Japan captures every single Pacific victory city, so what? It doesn’t matter until the end. If America went purely KGF like they do most of the time in revised, the Allies can crush Germany/Italy, then, with an exceptional income, walk over Japan, just like in revised. It just appears that ignoring victory cities entirely, until victory is obvious (capitals have fallen), is the best method for victory. This makes victory cities seem, to me, more of an unnecessary complication than something that has an “effect on gameplay” like Harry wanted. The only time I see victory cities making a difference is if the Allies for whatever reason decided to capture every Axis victory city except for capitals… which doesn’t seem like a feasible strategy.
1- You dont need a capital to get to 13 VC. If you ignore Japan, that’s several “free” VC Japan gets.
2- Japan will get bonus income (and the allies lose it) which makes Japan even stronger.
3- Since Japan cannot just march to moscow easily, it has nothing better to do than conquer LA. Which it CAN do if you give it its starting (1942) 30 IPC, plus IPC for territories it takes, PLUS 15 bonus IPC for its goals. Japan will soon become a 65-70 IPC monster.
I dont think the allies can just “ignore” Japan. That was the whole point of the pacific VC and the bonus system. You will be forced to spend $ in the pacific, or you will lose.
I disagree.
1. Same in revised. If you ignore Japan, they take India (VC). But that didn’t matter.
2. Same in revised. If you ignore Japan, they could realistically get an income of about 45 IPC. But nobody cared.
3. If it’s anything like revised, which we don’t know, the IPC from territories it takes wont be very much. For example, in revised, you get 4 IPC for China. It seems like about this amount in AA50, but that 4+ IPC is spread among a good 5 or 6 territories, not 2 territories.
I understand the point, that’s why I’m debating it: I don’t think VCs made ANY progress in achieving a pacific theater, and I don’t think bonuses will matter enough to change the ignore-Japan strategy. If the VCs mattered, that alone would solve it, but clearly capitals are what matters since you need them anyway for a 15 VC win (standard win amount).
The only ways bonuses will change the pacific is if:
1. Bonuses for Japan are large enough to counter the increased soviet mass and china, therefore bonuses cancel out the JTDTM nerfs and allow Japan to capture moscow.
2. Bonuses for Japan are large enough for Japan to launch a successful invasion against North America.
3. Japan is able to do enough economic damage to the Allies through capturing territory so that Germany and Italy alone can take on the allied onslaught.
All of these seem unlikely, but I suppose we will see. I know the first thing I’m going to do is launch an all out KG&IF against Germany and Italy, ignoring Japan entirely, and see how it works. Japan will be powerful by the time Germany and Italy fall, but it wont matter since, well, the Allies will have Germany and Italy.
I think the problem is that adding Soviet territories, China, etc., attempt to fix the problem, but not the core mechanic, the root of the problem. Capitals are what matters in this game and Japan is in no position to threaten any, which led to the Allies ignoring Japan since they weren’t a threat, and Japan rushing to Moscow since it was the only capital within range. They fixed the whole “Moscow is the only capital within Japan’s range” part, but not the core of the issue, which was that Japan was never a real threat to anything besides Moscow using a lame gimmick strategy.
In Revised, they attempted to fix this by adding IPC value to Japan in the Pacific, but they did it wrong- if they added ALLIED IPC value to the Pacific, then maybe Japan would have been powerful enough to, if left unattended, cripple the Allies to a point where Germany could take them on.
So yes, in my opinion, the problem is that Japan isn’t a threat to anything significant, and until that is changed, JTDTM and KGF will still remain the most viable strategies.
Disclaimer: This is all based on speculation about past and future A&A games