National objectives

What do you think about implementing respectively national adventeges  from 1941 spring (included in Larry Harris tournament rules v 2.0)  to the 1942 2ed?

Especialy together with a initialy proposed by Larry Harris new setup.

I think, especialy the Soviet –Japan non aggression treaty would make the game a lot more historical correct.

If you think it would be accepteble the problem is German Scientists national idea is not implementabe to the 1943 2ed, since in 1942 2ed there is no weapon development, so  I think, it could be replaced by Fortress Europe (included in Larry Harris tournament rules v 1.3) or some national ideas from Mr. Andersson’s House Rules for Axis & Allies Revised v1.1

Personaly I woul prefer using one or two of national ideas per country, if using this national idea would not destroy the game balance  at all.

Also I do not know, wheter the Panzerblitz national idea:

(Panzerblitz THE COLOSSAL PANZERS RUMBLED ACROSS EUROPE AND NORTH AFRICA. THEY WOULD BREACH ENEMY LINES, THEN TURN AND WREAK HAVOC ON THE 38 DEFENDERS. If your attacking forces destroy all defending units in a territory in one cycle of combat; or, if no combat was necessary, any of your surviving tanks in the attacking forces may move 1 territory during the noncombat move phase.)

means, that the tank can move not only to a friendly  territory (due to the standard non combat movement rules), but also to enemy controlled (but not enemy occupied territory).

What is correct understanding of it?

I am also afraid, that the Luftwaffe Dive-Bomber national idea:

(EUROPE WAS BLITZED AND BOMBED. THE JU-87 STUKA DIVE-BOMBER, A SMALL PLANE, PLAYED A BIG ROLE. ITS SCREAMING SIREN GENERATED TERROR ON ALL BATTLE FRONTS. Your fighters may conduct first round tactical bombing runs. They are subject to antiaircraft fire as normal. In the first cycle of combat, if there are no defending fighters present, the fighters hit on a roll of 5 or less in land battles only. Any units hit still fire back normally in that round of combat. In succeeding cycles of combat, the fighters hit normally. If defending fighters are present, this first cycle ability is cancelled.)

can make, that the odds in potential intitial G1 battle in West Russia can get slightly towards Germany, but I did not check it out precisely yet.

Sub: (Classic) National Advantages - A new way to help balance Classic

Here is 7 of n for discussion of my Classic House Rules

Here are my optional rules for national advantages for the different national powers in the Milton Bradley edition of A&A. These rules are not completely developed and need more play testing. These rules are meant for two purposes - to add some flavor to the various powers and to give a boost to a less-experienced player. A veteran player can give a new player a boost by letting them pick a couple of these advantages before play begins.

I don’t recommend using National Advantages and Research in the same game as that can lead to some wonky results.

Soviet Union
Penal Battalions: Gives a +1 to defense rolls of Infantry, Paratrooper, and Trooper units in the second round of combat (not the first round, the second).

Treaty of Non-Aggression with Japan: If Japan attacks, it will have blood on its hands. If this happens, the Soviet Union will receive three infantry units, to be placed in Yakut, Soviet Far East, or the territory under attack if it is not one of the proceeding two, as the Soviet Union sees fit. The advantage Penal Battalions will not be usable against Japan on the first turn of defense against Japanese aggression. The treaty expires on the turn after Germany is conquered by the Allies. (To be paired with Japan’s “Treaty of Non-Aggression with the Soviet Union”.)

Germany
Panzers and Panzergrenadiers: The elite armored troops of the Wehrmacht - Panzers (Attack 4, Defend 3, Move 2, Cost 6); Panzergrenadiers (Attack 3, Defend 4, Move 2, Cost 6). Not more than a combined total of 5 Panzers and Panzergrenadiers may be active at one time. The German player may re-designate up to 3 Armor and up to 2 Troopers, of player’s choice, as Panzers and Panzergrenadiers before the start of play.

Stuka Dive Bombers: German Fighters are especially potent in the attack. For each attacking German Fighter that rolls a 1 for its attack roll, 2 enemy defenders are destroyed.

Wolf Packs: German Subs cost 6 IPC and whenever two or more are attacking in the same sea zone, they each attack on a +1.

United Kingdom
Commonwealth of Nations: UK may place purchased infantry units in the Commonwealth Nations (Eastern Canada, South Africa, India, Australia and New Zealand) without needing a factory to be built. One infantry placed per territory per turn, UK must have current ownership of the receiving territory, not more than three infantry total per turn. If a factory has already been built in the target territory, then the one infantry placed in that territory due to Commonwealth of Nations will not count against that territories normal placement limits.

RADAR: UK Anti-Aircraft fire defending the United Kingdom territory hits on a roll of a 1 or a 2.

Empire of Japan
Banzai Charge: Gives a +1 to Infantry, Paratrooper, or Trooper attacks for the first round of combat.

Long Lance Torpedoes: Gives a +1 to Cruiser and Submarine attacks for the first round of combat.

Treaty of Non-Aggression with the Soviet Union: If the Soviet Union attacks, it will have blood on its hands. If this happens, Japan will receive three infantry units, to be placed in Manchuria, Kwangtung, Japan, or the territory under attack if it is not one of the proceeding three, as Japan sees fit. The treaty expires on the turn after the last of the United Kingdom and the United States are conquered by the Axis. (To be paired with Soviet Union’s “Treaty of Non-Aggression with Japan”.)

Unites States of America
Legacy of Kitty Hawk: Gives a +1 to all regular combat rolls (attack and defense) by US air units, and a +2 per bomber to IPC damage inflicted by successful US Strategic Bombing raids.

Old China Hands: US may place purchased infantry units in Chinese territories (Sinkiang, China, Kwangtung, Manchuria, and Indo-China) without needing a factory to be built. One infantry placed per territory per turn, US must have current ownership of the receiving territory, not more than three infantry total per turn.

The original idea for these dates to from before A&A Revised produced its own version of National Advantages. The intent with these rules is not to rewrite the Milton Bradley edition of the rule book into the Avalon Hill edition of the rule book but to discuss a modern version of my rules from 2003. Some of these are similar to Avalon Hill’s ideas for National Advantages and some are quite different. If players prefer an admixture of the A&A Revised National Advantages and this list, there’s no reason why those National Advantages that are not similar to each other couldn’t be compiled into a larger list of National Advantages.

-Midnight_Reaper

This is a mod which changes some rules and adds many more pieces to the setup. It uses the pieces and countries of 1940. I would love for everyone to try it and give their opinion.

Rules changes:
All units are added from 1940 2nd Edition except air and naval bases. ICs printed on the map are not used; ICs from 1940 are used instead. Strategic bombing raids can be done against these. No new ICs can be built. Units such as carriers and battleships which have different rules in 1941 compared to 1940 keep the rules of 1941.

All spaces are worth double their printed value. Countries start with double IPCs as well.

Italy: Italy is its own power now. It receives control of Southern and Western(ahistorical but the best I can do) Europe. Italy’s capital is in Southern Europe.

ANZAC: ANZAC is its own power now. It receives control of Australia, East Indies(ahistorical again), New Guinea, Sllolomon Islands, and New Zealand. Its capital is in Australia.

China: China is its own power. China must stay in China. China may only purchase infantry and artillery. China may deploy anywhere in China(Northwestern China, Szechwan, Manchuria, and Coastal China). If all four of these are captured by Allies, China gets control of all of them and may build all units (anywhere in China) and may move out of China. The US may give China as many IPCs as it wants; however China may only purchase one unit with US funds per turn. If all China is controlled by Axis, US gets China’s IPCs.

France: France is its own power now. France receives control of France(note that this has been captured) West Africa, Equatorial Africa,and  Madagascar. France is considered an originally controlled territory of France. If France is liberated France assumes control and places one infantry there(this happens each time France is captured). Note that if France is liberated by Alllies and Germany takes it back, Italy will NOT assume control as it is an original French territory.

Anything blunt or unspecified should be corrected. Feel free to ask me abut any rules.

Note that the setup is really three setups in one: the original, the setup pictured on the back of the box, and the units I added. A bit crowded. It plays well but some problems are still here. Please try it out and give me feedback.

Turn order and starting IPCs in hand/ starting income(don’t forget that everything is doubled):
Soviet Union: 14
Italy: 8
Germany: 16
ANZAC: 6
France: 0
United Kingdom: 18
Japan: 18
United States: 32
China: 2

Setup:
Germany:
Germany:6 infantry, 2 mech, 1 fighter, 2 S bombers, major IC
France: 3 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 AAA, 1tank, 1 fighter, 1 T bomber
Norway/Finland: 3 infantry, 1 AAA
Southern Europe: 2 infantry
North Africa: 3 infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery, 1 tank
Eastern Europe: 5 infantry, 2 artillery, 1 AAA, 3 tanks, 1 fighter, 1 T bomber, 1 S bomber
Ukraine: 3 infantry, 2 tanks, 1 AAA
West Russia: 4 infantry
SZ 5: 1 sub, 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, 1 battleship
SZ 6: 1 sub
SZ 9: 1 sub
SZ 16: 1 sub, 1 transport, 1 cruiser
SZ 17: 1 transport, 1 destroyer
SZ 18: 1 transport, 1 cruiser

Italy:
Southern Europe: 4 infantry 1 artillery 1 AAA 1 fighter 1 t bomber minor IC control marker
Western Europe: 1 infantry minor IC control marker
North Africa: 2 infantry 1 artillery 1 mech. 1 tank
SZ 17 1 transport 2 destroyers 1 cruiser

Japan:
Japan: 6 infantry 1 artillery 1 mech. 1 AAA 1 tank 1 fighter 1 T bomber 2 S bombers major IC
Iwo Jima: 1 infantry
Okinawa: 1 infantry 1 fighter
Manchuria: 4 infantry
Coastal China: 3 infantry 1 artillery 1 tank 1 fighter
Southeast Asia: 2 infantry 1 artillery
Caroline Islands: 2 infantry
SZ 45: 1 transport 1 destroyer 1 cruiser 2 carriers(carrying 3 fighters and 1 t bomber) 1 battleship
SZ 46: 1 transport 1 destroyer 1 carrier( carrying 1 fighter and 1 t bomber)
SZ 31: 1 destroyer 1 sub
SZ. 38: 1 transport 1 destroyer 2 cruisers 1 carrier(carrying 2 fighters)
SZ 37: 1 sub

Soviet Union:
Russia: 8 infantry, 2 mech., 1 artillery, 1 AAA, 1 tank, 2 fighters 1 T bomber 1 S bomber major IC
Archangel: 4 infantry
Karelia: 3 infantry 1 AAA
Caucasus: 5 infantry, 1 artillery 1 AAA 1 tank minor IC
Urals: 1 infantry 1 tank
Siberia: 5 infantry
SZ 4: 1 sub
SZ 3 1 sub 1 transport
SZ18: 1 transport 1 cruiser

ANZAC:
Australia: 3 infantry 1 artillery 1 AAA 1 fighter minor IC
New Zealand: 1 infantry 1 fighter
New Guinea: 1 infantry
India: 1 infantry
Egypt: 1 infantry 1 artillery
SZ 33: 2 subs 1 transport 1 cruiser

France:
England: 1 infantry 1 fighter
Equatorial Africa:  1 infantry 1 mech. 1 artillery
Egypt: 1 infantry
Middle East: 1 infantry
SZ 25: 1 transport 1 destroyer 1 cruiser

United Kingdom:
England: 2 infantry 1 artillery 1 AAA 1 fighter 1 t bomber 2 s bombers major IC
Eastern Canada: 1 infantry 1 tank
Western Canada :1 infantry
Egypt :2 infantry 1 mech. 1 artillery 1 AAA 2 tanks 1 t bomber
Kenya :1 infantry 1 fighter
Union of South Africa :1 infantry
Middle East : 1 infantry
India : 3 infantry 1 artillery 1 fighter 1 t bomber minor IC
SZ 8: 1 sub 1 cruiser 1 battleship
SZ 10: 2 transports 1 destroyer
SZ 14: 1 carrier (carrying 1 fighter)
SZ 29: 1 transport 1 destroyer 1 cruiser
SZ 30: 1 battleship

United States :
Easter US :6 infantry 2 tanks 1 fighter 1 s bomber major IC
Western US :3 infantry 1 mech. 1 artillery 1 tank 1 s bomber major IC
Alaska : 1 infantry
Hawaii : 2 infantry 1 AAA
Philippines : 2 infantry
Midway : 1 infantry 1 t bomber
Wake: 1 infantry
SZ 11: 1 sub 1 destroyer 1 transport 1 cruiser
SZ 42: 1 sub 1 transport 1 cruiser 1 carrier (carrying 2 fighters)  1 battleship
SZ 40: 1 transport 1 carrier (carrying 1 fighter and 1 t bomber) 1 battleship

China:
Northwestern China: 2 infantry
Szechwan: 3 infantry 1 artillery 1 fighter

Alright, I finally got around to completing a full game with these rules. The results:
Soviet Union Victory! The game was close, with the last few turns being a race to see whether Russia could hold Berlin for a full turn before the US could capture and hold a capital. In the end, Russia was able to hold Berlin the turn before the US would have won for holding Rome. The game was 11 turns long, I think. I kind of lost count.

France was definitely the big loser of this game, never capturing a single victory city, and being almost completely wiped from the board by the end. Though France started fairly strong, its navy (the most expensive at the start) was too spread out to accomplish anything, and it slowly lost its African territories due to an inability to reinforce them. The final blow was when France, seeing a weak Northern Italy, send out too many forces on the offensive and lost its Capital to Germany.

Italy also did poorly. Though it easily dominated the Mediterranean, it lacked the economy to support its efforts against a UK that was going almost full Egypt. When France invaded Northern Italy, Italy withdrew as many of its forces from North Africa as possible to defend its Capital. After that, Italy managed to stave off a German assault and even counter attack back into a then dying Germany, but the US came in and crushed Rome just before the end.

Germany did quite well, before it fell apart. Early on, Germany held the line with France and Italy, while still throwing most of its forces at Russia. It managed to gain some good ground, and was greatly helped initially by the Finnish and Bulgarian troops. However, after France made it’s move on Italy, Germany was forced to march into Paris to prevent France from gaining control of Southern Europe and fighting Germany with all its might. This unfortunately destabilized the Western front, and Germany began losing ground in Russia while fighting with France and Italy. A rush to try and take Paris and Rome before the Russians took Poland failed, and Germany was eventually completely wiped from the board.

The United Kingdom struggled initially, as Italian forces opposed it in Africa. However, the UK put a Minor IC in Egypt and was able outproduce Italy over time. Eventually it took complete control of Africa as Italy pulled out to defend its European territory. The UK managed to defend against a US invasion, and at the end game launched an invasion of Belgium and took Normandy and West Germany. It was maybe one turn away from a victory at the end, but Russia and the US had just barely beaten it to meeting their objectives.

The United States was the “clock” of the game: with no opponents at the start, the US had a few turns to build up an invasion force to conquer Europe. It was a race for the other nations to win before the American behemoth arrived to crush them. Unfortunately, this made America really boring to play, as they had no action until the end of the game.

The Soviet Union had a great game. They struggled against the mighty German war machine at first, but in the end, their single-minded assault on Berlin won out. They were able to reached a staggering 50 IPCs a turn as they captured Berlin, and managed to hold it a full turn just ahead of the capitalist Americans.

So, what needs changing? Not much. The Major powers all seem pretty balanced, as any of them could have won if they had used an ideal strategy. Additionally, most of the game they were all at about 30 IPCs, with the US having slightly more and the UK having slightly less.

The Minor Powers need help though. Their starting advantage of having the most units quickly wears off, and then Italy is left neutered with IPCs hovering at about 14, and France loses IPCs over the course of the game as its colonies are taken.

Unfortunately, I can’t find a good way to balance it well. I believe a National Objective system might help, giving France and Italy NOs that are relatively easy to accomplish while giving the Major Powers NOs that require a lot of work.

I have a rule that gives every minor power a red number which represents the number of infantry units it is allowed to build after its entry. (only one time)
(look at my german game map)

For example Serbia beeing attacked by AH mobilizes 5 Inf and 1 Art. If AH doesnt manage to conquer Serbia with their initial attack, Serbia is allowed to place 2 more Inf units in Serbia.

1914Alpha9 (1) (1).png

Larrys new NOs for US look exellent and look like they will balance game better becouse they will scale down US income if conditions are not met

also if there is a germany > japan / russia > u.s.

ok ill make a third version with the changes you asked for. Tonight.