German navy

@Jennifer:

For instance.  If you do not purchase a navy, England is extremely tempted to hit SZ 5, but all they have are expensive fighters and bombers.  Those are fighters and bombers they will NOT have after the battle and will either have to rebuild (tough if they are down Africa) or do without (more likely, assuming Africa is gone.)

Meanwhile, Germany’s out a couple of submarines and a destroyer they most likely never would have used anyway.  The transport is a shame, since it does add flexibility to your troop movements in Europe.  But even the loss of that vessel isn’t going to make or break you.

The single most common outcome of 2 Fig, 1 BMR vs. an unreinforced Baltic fleet is UK winning with 1 Fig and the bomber surviving.  Though if Germany does not submerge the subs, taking them as casualties instead, he has a pretty good chance of nailing the 2nd fighter.  But in any case, the Bomber survives 65%-70% of the time, so it’s not like the UK is down ALL its planes after the attack in most cases.  And with the Baltic navy sunk, both the US and UK can start strong landings in Europe sooner, which is more valuable to the Allies than a couple of UK fighters.

@Jennifer:

After all, it’s going to take America 3 to 5 rounds to set up her infantry stacks.  It will take England 3 to 5 rounds to get up to optimum production as well, assuming she wants to bring the fleet up from the Indian Ocean.Â

I’m not bringing the Indian Ocean navy up if I’m UK. That navy’s job is to hinder Japan as much as it can until it dies, and/or to help retake Egypt from Germany.Â

In most games where germany does not reinforce the Baltic fleet at all and I sink it on UK1, UK is landing three TRNs of stuff in Norway on UK2, 3-4 TRNs of stuff somewhere in Europe on UK3, and 4 TRNs of stuff from UK4 onward.   And since the UK and US combined dumped 4 TRNs of stuff in Algeria on UK1/US1, Africa generally stays in UK hands.

@Imperious:

details?

What turn?

What was used?

Did you get to shuck stuff to russia? did that work in your favor?

I did get to “shuck” stuff at russia which was nice, and the extra tranport helped infantry get online against russia alittle earlier.  but I think a detroyer and a tranport would have had the same effect plus given me 6 IPC’s extra…sooo

I was destroyed on turn 2 or 3.  i forget.  I’ll look back at my notes.

a good german navy is a navy that destroys at least one RAF piece before it goes down.

What if you moved the baltic fleet to sz 7. UK can either do an all out attack with air and fleet, attack with just fleet or air, or just leave it alone (very doubtful). US can also bomb later if its worth it. The point being, this gets my fleet moving. Now if the “Average” result happens, then I pry took a fig and or Transport with me and I’m destroyed. Not too big of a difference than before, but if things go well for me than I have a real chance of unifying the fleet. If the fleet is unified, then I’d add maybe a destroyer and sub or something. Something to make the Allies not want to park in sz 12. Helps keep Afrika Deutschlands. And on the flip side, if my fleet gets destroyed, nothing new happend. If UK uses their fleet then I probably will get 1 trn and keep them from hitting Norway or Algeria first round anyways. I don’t use my transport that much either.

In conclusion, if things go well, then fleet unification and make some modest Navy buys.

If things go to crap, I say screw it and stay with my normal German strategy. For some reason, whenever I play, it always gets destroyed on UK 1 anyways. If its gonna be attacked, why not atleast give it some hope if it survives.

UK is blocking at SZ#6… if the baltic fleet stayed in the Baltic for G2, then UK and USA catch up because your then dealing with 2 full turns of builds… Each turn the Allies get stronger, while the axis only bought the g1 fleet buys and spent 40 IPC (1 CV and 3 AP). Uk just gets in position to exchange AND gets the ability to kill one of your stacks at its leasure once the medd fleet moves out. They cant combine on the same turn of UK is in SZ#6 unless the baltic fleet decided to attack. If they stay put then UK and USA attacks anything moving out of the medd.

@Imperious:

UK is blocking at SZ#6… if the baltic fleet stayed in the Baltic for G2, then UK and USA catch up because your then dealing with 2 full turns of builds… Each turn the Allies get stronger, while the axis only bought the g1 fleet buys and spent 40 IPC (1 CV and 3 AP). Uk just gets in position to exchange AND gets the ability to kill one of your stacks at its leasure once the medd fleet moves out. They cant combine on the same turn of UK is in SZ#6 unless the baltic fleet decided to attack. If they stay put then UK and USA attacks anything moving out of the medd.

Not sure if you are replying to me, but if you are, Im suggesting you move out first turn thus UK is not blocking you and that you do not buy unless either you are not attacked or get lucky with the dice.

are you better off just buying infantry to defend your shore rather then buy navy?

@zosima:

are you better off just buying infantry to defend your shore rather then buy navy?

That depends on the board position.

If the Allies have kicked Germany’s ass in the Atlantic already, newly produced German navy just dies, so infantry is the ONLY way to go.

If the Alllies haven’t kicked Germany’s ass in the Atlantic already, Germany can use its navy in various ways.

It’s not a matter of “infantry > destroyers zomg lolz” or “subs >> tanks HAHAHA”.  Good decisions depend on the board position!

Would somebody be interested in writing an article for the main website about the German aircraft carrier purchase on turn 1 strategy?

Just looking for an article of any length that explains how-to, the benefits, the drawbacks, and when to use it and when not.

Thanks.

@djensen:

Would somebody be interested in writing an article for the main website about the German aircraft carrier purchase on turn 1 strategy?

Just looking for an article of any length that explains how-to, the benefits, the drawbacks, and when to use it and when not.

Thanks.

How to build:  Well, you have these pieces of paper called “industrial production certificates” that you trade in to build units.  These certificates are like money, see.  But you can’t pay your rent with them, and most hookers won’t take them.

Benefits:  Protect the German Baltic fleet.  If Germany builds nothing in the Baltic, UK can send 2 fighters and a bomber to blow up Germany’s 2 subs, 1 transport, and 1 destroyer.

Drawbacks:  You have less ground units produced in Germany that can threaten the Russian front on subsequent turns.  The carrier can’t do much other than protect the Baltic fleet, and give German fighters a bit of extra effective attack range.

When to use it:  When you’re feeling defend-y.

When not to use it:  When you’re feeling attack-y.

Um, okay, that’s a good start. Why is it good that the German boats don’t get blown up. Basically, in the article you have to assume that the reader has played Axis & Allies maybe 5-10 times. Enough to understand the game and a few basic strategies but not enough to have considered this strategy.

@djensen:

Um, okay, that’s a good start. Why is it good that the German boats don’t get blown up. Basically, in the article you have to assume that the reader has played Axis & Allies maybe 5-10 times. Enough to understand the game and a few basic strategies but not enough to have considered this strategy.

I assume that the article is to use out of the box rules AND the FAQ that’s available on the Wizards site.  (so OOB/FAQ).  Also, I assume no preplaced bid.

Are these assumptions correct?

Any other things you want in the article?

Any other volunteers?  (peering around)

It would be up to the person writing the article but yes. I think those criteria would be a good starting point. Maybe at the end of the article could be a quick mention of how things would change with a bid and also if you are using LHTR 1.3 instead of the OOB rules.

The Germany 1 Baltic Carrier:

This article is written for the casual Axis and Allies Revised player that either uses or is considering using a carrier buy in the Baltic for Germany’s first turn.

Germany starts with two subs, a transport, and a destroyer in the Baltic sea zone.  If Germany does not purchase any naval units on its first turn for the Baltic, the United Kingdom player can attack the German navy with two fighters and a bomber, and have a good chance of destroying 36 IPC of German navy at the cost of 20-35 IPC of United Kingdom air units.

Once the Baltic fleet is destroyed, unless Germany spends a considerable deal of IPCs on German navy during a single turn, the only units that Germany can use to repel an Allied fleet in the north Atlantic will be air units, as newly produced German naval units are vulnerable to air attack from London.  The Allies can very quickly produce a navy that can easily repulse any German solely air attack at very little cost.

For this reason, some players choose to attempt to preserve the German Baltic navy by building a Baltic carrier.  With a Baltic fleet, the German air force can take care of any small Allied transport fleet, while the German Baltic navy can be used in conjunction with the German air force to destroy even a considerably sized Allied fleet.

There are other approaches to playing Germany; building nothing but ground units, building air and ground units, building transports instead of a carrier at Baltic, building transports and a carrier, researching various weapons development advances – but those fall outside the scope of this article.

Plan A:  Threaten London:  1 carrier, 3 transports.

At the end of the first German turn, some German fighters will land in territories or sea zones that are too far for the fighters to attack London on the second turn and also land.  However, the Baltic carrier can give some of those fighters the extra effective range they need to hit London on G2.

Building a carrier and three transports on the first German turn means no German ground units produced that turn, which means that Russia will be able to press in on Germany quite early, as Germany will not have the units to respond.  In turn, this means that Russia will have an increased income for some turns, and will therefore be able to produce more infantry, making Russia far more difficult to attack.  The German transports can be used to transport infantry from Germany or Western Europe to Karelia to pressure the Russians by Germany’s third turn, but as that will tie up the expensive German fleet, Germany cannot count on being able to use its transports to move units to the Russian front.

However, the carrier and transports allow Germany to pose a significant invasion threat to London that the Allies must respond to.  This is of limited benefit, as unless Germany builds even more transports, the Allies can quickly make London’s defenses tremendously strong with transported ground units and fighters from Eastern US, and ground units produced at London.

Although Russia is stronger early and London can be defended against any German attack, to do so, the Allies cannot secure Africa early (as Allied resources are tied up at London, so Germany can use its Southern Europe transport to help claim Africa on the second and third Germany turns).  Additionally, the size of the Baltic fleet means that the Germans can move the Baltic fleet around early without having to constantly worry about reinforcing the Baltic fleet, which in turn means that the Germans can hold the Atlantic for far longer, which in turn means that the Allies will have to take longer to set up any transport chains to London.

(By transport chains, I refer to the Allied Kill Germany First strategy of producing 4-5 UK transports that offload 8+ units in Europe or Africa a turn, and 6 US transports, with 6 US ground units produced at Eastern US marching to Eastern Canada, then being transported from Eastern Canada to London on 3 of the 6 US transports, and then being transported to Europe or Africa on the other 3 of the 6 US transports).

Plan B:  Fend off Allies:  1 carrier, 8 infantry, or 1 carrier, 4 infantry, 3 artillery

Although this plan still has a carrier, it plays out much differently from Plan A.  Now, London is not threatened, so the Allies can immediately begin producing transports and other units to start invasion of Europe, or air units to attack the Baltic fleet.  Furthermore, the Baltic fleet is now not nearly as strong, having far less fodder.  If the Baltic fleet leaves the Baltic now, the Allies can very likely destroy it immediately with Allied air from London and Allied naval units used as fodder.  (The Allies will both in greater or lesser quantity if they are carrying out a Kill Germany First plan)

Russia remains strong in this scenario, as German infantry and artillery are slow to reach the front.  However, since eight German infantry have been produced, Germany can reliably start pressing into Russian territory around the fourth turn.  (German infantry produced in Germany on the first German turn can move to Eastern Europe on the second turn, Belorussia or Karelia or Balkans on the third turn, and Archangel, West Russia, or  Ukraine on the third turn).

–

It is likely that Russia will have stacked a lot of units on West Russia at the end of the first Russian turn, and taken either Belorussia or Ukraine.  On Russia’s second turn, Russia will probably try to take Karelia, Belorussia, and/or Ukraine with units from West Russia, and Russia will probably try to continue trading territory with Germany for as long as possible, both to destroy Germany’s infantry at the Russian front, and to gain territories for IPC income.

Both Plan A and Plan B allow Russia to make early claims on territory that Germany cannot really respond to.  If Germany attempts to place a lot of units at Karelia, Belorussia, or Ukraine, Germany risks a hit and run attack from West Russia.

(A hit and run attack is one in which units in one territory attack another units in another territory.  The attacking forces attempt to destroy a great deal of defending units while losing relatively little.  The attacking forces retreat before completely destroying the defending units, as if the attacking forces destroyed the defending units and captured the territory, the defender would be able to counterattack the attacking forces next turn, inflicting expensive casualties.  After the attacker retreats, the attacker moves up reinforcing infantry, making the attacker’s position very difficult to counterattack.)

Therefore, Germany should probably only use Plan A or Plan B if Russia moved some of its attacking units (tanks) east.  If Russia is not in position to exploit a German weakness, the German “weakness” will not really be all that weak.

If Russia moved units east, Germany can try the more aggressive

Plan C:  Fend off Allies:  1 carrier, 3 infantry, 3 tanks.  Here, Germany produces tanks at Germany that can move to Karelia, Belorussia, or Ukraine on Germany’s second turn.  Germany really needs to move infantry to the Russian front, so there an additional Southern Europe transport or two to move units to Ukraine and/or Caucasus may be useful.

@newpaintbrush:

Russia remains strong in this scenario, as German infantry and artillery are slow to reach the front.  However, since eight German infantry have been produced, Germany can reliably start pressing into Russian territory around the fourth turn.  (German infantry produced in Germany on the first German turn can move to Eastern Europe on the second turn, Belorussia or Karelia or Balkans on the third turn, and Archangel, West Russia, or  Ukraine on the third turn).

Should read German infantry produced in Germany on the first German turn can move to Eastern Europe or Balkans on the second turn, Karelia or Belorussia or Ukraine on the third turn, and Archangel, West Russia, or Caucasus on the fourth turn.

@rjclayton:

@newpaintbrush:

Russia remains strong in this scenario, as German infantry and artillery are slow to reach the front.  However, since eight German infantry have been produced, Germany can reliably start pressing into Russian territory around the fourth turn.  (German infantry produced in Germany on the first German turn can move to Eastern Europe on the second turn, Belorussia or Karelia or Balkans on the third turn, and Archangel, West Russia, or  Ukraine on the third turn).

Should read German infantry produced in Germany on the first German turn can move to Eastern Europe or Balkans on the second turn, Karelia or Belorussia or Ukraine on the third turn, and Archangel, West Russia, or Caucasus on the fourth turn.

thanks.  I wrote that article pretty late.  T_T

One thing, though - the bulk of the infantry should almost always go to E. Europe on the next turn instead of Balkans; E. Europe has a better location.

Yes, unless EE cannot be defended properly against a kitchen sink allied attack (large allied navy).  The southern route is a way around that and still march reinforcements to the frontlines.

Great article, well written. I’m going to post it today.

oo imma published author.

Please remember to correct the article as rjclayton mentioned.

thx.