AARHE: Rule files

I am honored to be included in the list of those who helped to develop the AARHE rules, but feel that my own small contributions are not worthy of being listed with all of those who spent so much more time and effort developing the rules.

yea right buddy.

I don’t want to be updating very frequently. I’ll upload the Dec.6 version but after that, once a month, please.

Even though I’m sure Ncscswitch provided some good feedback, in a way I agree with him. There are those of you who put in many many hours and those who spent just a few (but valuable)  hours. I would like to break down the contributors into “Designers” and “Contributors”? Or some other designation. Let’s make it self-deterministic. Everybody will be considered a contributor unless you speak up and say otherwise. How’s that sound?

At best, I think I fall in to the “initial feedback and evaluation” category.

A couple of ideas for Italy NA’s and a few other devils advocate posts do not merit my inclusion in the credits for the finished product.

The project is not about a specific person who created most of its elements but rather the sum of its parts working in harmony. Of course it would be easy to say that one guy was most prominant, but one of the core values was to create a team where everybody had some effect on the final ideas and to be as inclusionary as possible to others who wanted to help. To each contributed to their abilities and naturally not everything that was contributed was included but it was a trial and error approach to the application of those ideas. We specifically didn’t want the project to be a “its about me” ego driven affair, but a few of us acted as facilitators to move progress ahead.

I understand completely, but I was just shocked to see my name listed as a contributor when I offered so little to the project.

I am honored by the credit, I just feel that my small role does not merit it.

:-)

Hey this is not about you… ok? :-D

@Imperious:

Hey this is not about you… ok? :-D

That was my point :-P  But OK, I’ll let it drop :-)

I will be doing some testing this weekend, The Neutrals rules are A+ I have always hate having those territories sitting there doing nothing.  That was one of the things I liked most about World at War.

One question, is it your intention that if a Player invades Spain from the sea they are required to clear the Spainish fleet prior to landing?  I went with that in my last game, it wasn’t dificult fo rthe US, but it was an influence to wait a turn.

The Tech is a vast improvement.  I think the only way to get people to use techs is to force it on them and giving each player one or two free rolls a turn works for me.  I also think the progeressive research is a great Idea.

I have a couple questions on the research.

The rule says: Roll for one technology at a time.  Tick off one box for each roll hitting on a one.  Each die costs 5IPC.

As Germany I have a capacity of 2+3 =5.  It says roll for one tech at a time, but can I split that between tech catagories?  Or is that one Tech per turn?

Also if I roll 5 dice for one tech and hit 2 ones do I get to check 2 boxes?

I look forward to play testing this.

Excellent, thanks.

Tekkyy, I have read the latest download, and I think you should add Norway and Southern Germany to the mountainous list.

And BTW how did we decide on this;

Build schedule
BB (battleship), CV (aircraft carrier), and CA (cruiser) takes 2 rounds to build. They are mobilised on the turn after the turn you’ve purchases them.

I mean do you pay them full in advance or half each round?

I think you half to pay at least 50%…of course you can pay 100% but you still wait for the second turn to actually get it.

This is my first time posting here. I can see that a lot of thought and creativity has gone into this effort. This team has done an excellent job of making the game more realistic in a tactical sense.

That said, very little has been done to correct the strategic historical inaccuracies of Axis and Allies Revised. Which is fine, but if you’re calling this rules set “historical” it may as well live up to the name.

During World War II, the Allies produced over four times as many tanks as the Axis, over twice as many military aircraft, five times as many artillery, over three times as many mortars, over four times as many machine guns, and over six times as many military trucks. In the pivotal battle of Kursk (1943), Germany had 900,000 men, 10,000 cannons, 2,000 aircraft, and 2,000 tanks. They’d denuded their forces elsewhere along the Soviet front to achieve this concentration. The Soviets had 1.9 million men, 20,800 cannons, 2,000 aircraft, and 5,100 tanks. They achieved this without accepting weakness elsewhere. The Axis and Allies Revised map dramatically understates the scale of Soviet and American military production. This inaccuracy is not corrected in the AARHE rules set.

An additional problem the Axis faced is this: in the real war, Japan’s army was engaged in an unwinnable land war in China. Japan simply didn’t have the available men to launch yet another land war against the Soviet Union, or to take India. In A&A Revised (and AARHE), Japan can mop China up quickly and relatively painlessly; and India typically gets abandoned.

Finally, making Italy a separate power is a bit of a stretch. The Italian military lacked proper equipment, training, motivation, leadership, and morale. When Italy declared war on France, a large Italian force was defeated by a French force only a fraction of its own size. The same thing happened again when Italy attempted to invade Greece. In North Africa, massive Italian forces surrendered to much smaller British groups. The Italians lacked the proper equipment to fight a desert war. Italy’s obsolete tanks couldn’t even damage British tanks! By 1943, the Italians had lost whatever willingness to fight they might once have had; and eagerly surrendered to any available Allied force. Including Italy as a separate power implies that Italy was more useful to the Axis than were nations like Finland, Bulgaria, Romania, or Hungary. This simply wasn’t the case.

I realize the changes I’m suggesting create game balance issues. If you bog Japan down in a painful and largely unwinnable land war in China, and if you accurately portray Soviet/American military production, the Allies should always win. But I’m sure that this team is clever enough to find some advantage to bestow on the Axis that will balance out what you’ll be giving to the Allies. Just about anything will be more historically accurate than sweeping the Allies’ industrial advantages or the China war under the rug.

A few comments…

An additional problem the Axis faced is this: in the real war, Japan’s army was engaged in an unwinnable land war in China. Japan simply didn’t have the available men to launch yet another land war against the Soviet Union, or to take India. In A&A Revised (and AARHE), Japan can mop China up quickly and relatively painlessly; and India typically gets abandoned.

IN AARHE we changed the very victory conditions so you don’t have to rely on your partner, much the same way as in the war. We cannot make wholescale changes in the map or it wont be a varient of revised… it will be too far removed from the game. WE added specific historical based cities which require fighting in new areas rather than the same old trouble spots.

Finally, making Italy a separate power is a bit of a stretch. The Italian military lacked proper equipment, training, motivation, leadership, and morale. When Italy declared war on France, a large Italian force was defeated by a French force only a fraction of its own size. The same thing happened again when Italy attempted to invade Greece. In North Africa, massive Italian forces surrendered to much smaller British groups. The Italians lacked the proper equipment to fight a desert war. Italy’s obsolete tanks couldn’t even damage British tanks! By 1943, the Italians had lost whatever willingness to fight they might once have had; and eagerly surrendered to any available Allied force. Including Italy as a separate power implies that Italy was more useful to the Axis than were nations like Finland, Bulgaria, Romania, or Hungary. This simply wasn’t the case.

Its not just Italy the 3rd axis player includes the economy of Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and Italy. In 1942 These economies actually were stronger combined than Japan was in this same period.

GDP 1942 ( source: Harrison -figures in billions)

Italy 145
Lybia 2.6
Hungary 24.3
Romania 19.4
Bulgaria 10.5
Yugoslavia 21.9

total: 223.7

vs. Japan at 197

BTW Germany is at 417 this same period ( it does not include Finland with is another 12.7)

If we conclude the economics purely as you put it on True Historical data… then we are left with a busted game because Japan will be too weak to defend herself against Allied counters.

Also, military leadership cannot be factored into a game of this type. The Russians lost many more soldiers than Italy ever did in 4 years of fighting during the first 5 months of Barbarossa. Stalin was the worst general than any Italian could ever hope to be. Eventually, he began to listen to his generals. IN Italy’s case when the Germans assumed command of Italian forces they fought much better. Besides Il Duce was not ready for war until 1944, but could conceivably struggle for a few short years and still remain effective. In Oct 1940 the Italians had 300,000 against 30,000 Brits, but stopped to make fortifications at the Lybian/ Egypt border. This is a choice that was made. If they pressed on their is little doubt that they would have taken the Suez… now the game gives them the new choice to become more effective. Italy had a modern Navy and air force and they were a complete military power.