L20 #1 trulpen (X) vs AndrewAAGamer (A) P2V

TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 12

TripleA Turn Summary for game: WW2 Path to Victory, version: 3.0.0

Game History

Round: 12

    Purchase Units - Japanese
        Japanese buy 1 carrier, 4 infantry and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 

    Combat Move - Japanese
        4 artilleries moved from Burma to Eastern India
        5 artilleries moved from Burma to Yunnan
        1 infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan
        1 marine moved from Malaya to 38 Sea Zone
        1 battleship and 1 marine moved from 38 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
        1 marine moved from 21 Sea Zone to Manilla
        3 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Malaya to 38 Sea Zone
        3 artilleries, 2 infantry and 3 transports moved from 38 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
        3 submarines moved from 45 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 43 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 46 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from French Indo China to 37 Sea Zone
        3 artilleries, 3 infantry and 3 transports moved from 37 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Davao
        2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Manilla
        2 carriers moved from 43 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
        2 carriers moved from 44 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        2 fighters moved from 43 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 10 carriers, 3 cruisers, 2 destroyers and 4 tactical_bombers moved from 38 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
        5 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to 21 Sea Zone
        6 infantry moved from Burma to Yunnan
        22 infantry moved from Burma to Eastern India
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Burma to Eastern India
        8 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to 21 Sea Zone

    Combat - Japanese
        Battle in Eastern India
            Japanese attack with 1 armour, 4 artilleries, 22 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
            British defend with 1 artillery; UK_Pacific defend with 1 airfield, 1 factory_major and 1 harbour
                Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 4 artilleries, 22 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Eastern India, round 2 : 6/28 hits, 6,50 expected hits
                UK_Pacific roll dice for 1 artillery in Eastern India, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese and 1 artillery owned by the British lost in Eastern India
            Japanese captures 12PUs while taking UK_Pacific capital
            Japanese converts factory_major into different units
            Japanese win, taking Eastern India from UK_Pacific with 1 armour, 4 artilleries, 21 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 1
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Casualties for British: 1 artillery
        Battle in Yunnan
            Japanese attack with 5 artilleries and 7 infantry
            Chinese defend with 5 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 5 artilleries and 7 infantry in Yunnan, round 2 : 4/12 hits, 3,67 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 5 infantry in Yunnan, round 2 : 3/5 hits, 1,67 expected hits
                3 infantry owned by the Japanese and 4 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Yunnan
                Japanese roll dice for 5 artilleries and 4 infantry in Yunnan, round 3 : 2/9 hits, 3,00 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Yunnan, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Yunnan
            Japanese win, taking Yunnan from Chinese with 5 artilleries and 4 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
            Casualties for Japanese: 3 infantry
            Casualties for Chinese: 5 infantry
        Battle in 36 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 2 carriers, 1 destroyer, 3 submarines and 3 transports
            ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese roll dice for 3 submarines in 36 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits
                ANZAC roll dice for 1 destroyer in 36 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the ANZAC lost in 36 Sea Zone
            Japanese win with 2 carriers, 1 destroyer, 3 submarines and 3 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer
        Battle in Davao
        Battle in 21 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 2 battleships, 10 carriers, 3 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 15 fighters, 1 submarine and 9 tactical_bombers
            Americans defend with 1 battleship, 11 carriers, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers, 10 fighters, 1 submarine, 9 tactical_bombers and 2 transports
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 21 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Americans
                Japanese roll dice for 2 battleships, 10 carriers, 3 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 15 fighters and 9 tactical_bombers in 21 Sea Zone, round 2 : 21/31 hits, 17,00 expected hits
            Units damaged: 4 carriers owned by the Americans
                Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 21 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Japanese
                Americans roll dice for 1 battleship, 11 carriers, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers, 10 fighters, 9 tactical_bombers and 2 transports in 21 Sea Zone, round 2 : 20/36 hits, 17,50 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 carrier owned by the Japanese and 1 battleship owned by the Japanese
                1 submarine owned by the Americans, 2 destroyers owned by the Americans, 9 carriers owned by the Japanese and 7 carriers owned by the Americans lost in 21 Sea Zone
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 21 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 2 battleships, 1 carrier, 3 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 15 fighters and 9 tactical_bombers in 21 Sea Zone, round 3 : 20/31 hits, 17,00 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 battleship, 4 carriers, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer, 10 fighters, 9 tactical_bombers and 2 transports in 21 Sea Zone, round 3 : 10/27 hits, 14,50 expected hits
                6 fighters owned by the Japanese, 2 cruisers owned by the Americans, 1 destroyer owned by the Americans, 9 tactical_bombers owned by the Americans, 1 carrier owned by the Japanese, 2 destroyers owned by the Japanese, 4 carriers owned by the Americans, 1 submarine owned by the Japanese and 4 fighters owned by the Americans lost in 21 Sea Zone
                Japanese roll dice for 2 battleships, 3 cruisers, 9 fighters and 9 tactical_bombers in 21 Sea Zone, round 4 : 15/23 hits, 13,33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 battleship, 6 fighters and 2 transports in 21 Sea Zone, round 4 : 1/7 hits, 4,67 expected hits
                6 fighters owned by the Americans, 2 transports owned by the Americans, 1 cruiser owned by the Japanese and 1 battleship owned by the Americans lost in 21 Sea Zone
            Japanese win, taking Davao from Americans with 2 battleships, 2 cruisers, 9 fighters and 9 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 195
            Casualties for Japanese: 10 carriers, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 6 fighters and 1 submarine
            Casualties for Americans: 1 battleship, 11 carriers, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers, 10 fighters, 1 submarine, 9 tactical_bombers and 2 transports
        Battle in Manilla
            Japanese attack with 2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 1 marine
            Americans defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 1 marine in Manilla, round 2 : 0/5 hits, 1,67 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Manilla, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Manilla
                Japanese roll dice for 2 artilleries and 1 marine in Manilla, round 3 : 1/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Manilla, round 3 : 1/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
                1 artillery owned by the Japanese and 1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Manilla
                Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 marine in Manilla, round 4 : 2/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 artillery in Manilla, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 artillery owned by the Americans lost in Manilla
            Japanese win, taking Manilla from Americans with 1 artillery and 1 marine remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery and 2 infantry
            Casualties for Americans: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
        triggerUKPacificDestroyPUsJapanese: Setting destroysPUs to true for playerAttachment attached to UK_Pacific

    Non Combat Move - Japanese
        4 fighters moved from 21 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        5 tactical_bombers moved from 21 Sea Zone to French Indo China
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 21 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
        3 tactical_bombers moved from 21 Sea Zone to Japan
        1 fighter moved from 21 Sea Zone to French Indo China
        3 fighters moved from 21 Sea Zone to Japan
        1 destroyer moved from 45 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 42 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
        5 infantry moved from Burma to Eastern India
        1 aaGun moved from Burma to Eastern India
        1 aaGun moved from French Indo China to Yunnan

    Place Units - Japanese
        1 carrier and 1 submarine placed in 38 Sea Zone
        1 infantry placed in Malaya
        3 infantry placed in French Indo China
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 21 Sea Zone: 1 battleship and 2 cruisers
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to French Indo China: 3 fighters
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

    Turn Complete - Japanese
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 9
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 7 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,3,1,6,6,6,2,6,2,4,6,1,2,2,1,6,2,5,3
        Japanese collect 26 PUs (9 lost to blockades); end with 38 PUs
        Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 41 PUs
        Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 46 PUs
        Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 51 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : 1,00
Americans regular : -3,50
Japanese regular : 7,50
ANZAC regular : -0,33
UK_Pacific regular : 0,67

Savegame

@trulpen

@trulpen said in L20 #1 trulpen (X) vs AndrewAAGamer (A) P2V:

I’m sad to do it, but rules are rules. I’m taking the point at this stage due to time-limits.

Wow. Surprising…

You know I could tell you were upset about not being able to do some edits based on your last few posts. Frankly I did not understand your attitude since you knew and agreed to the edit policy. In fact, in an IM you said…

Knowing your stand on the matter, I’d try to be very careful when executing my turns, not counting on after-hand edits.

But for whatever reason you felt justified to be angry about my denying you a couple of minor edits recently. So now, when I just made my obvious blunder and forgot to move the 3 ANZAC fighters onto the US fleet, at first I was surprised with the apparent glee you took in attacking and taking advantage of that mistake. You made no mention at all about it and I thought “Okay – he is upset because he could not make edits however Trulpen is a nice guy and once he calms down he will realize that this game needs to be nulled or we go back to before the battle and put my ANZAC fighters back on the US fleet and play it without it being an official game.” After all, when you made your obvious blunder early in the game, with your German Build in the Med, I offered to null the game and do the same for you.

As you know, since we discussed it in depth, I have an edit policy not because I am mean or strict but because I want a mutually fair and even game with no arguments and no hard feelings. I play to have fun. I want to have fun and I want my opponent to have fun. When the game is over, no matter who wins, I want both players to be happy with the experience.

So when you made your obvious German Build blunder and were unhappy about it, because you were a nice guy, I did something I have never done in all my years of gaming. I offered you the chance to null the game and just make it for fun because I did not want any hard feeling over what was a colossal and obvious blunder. So when I did the same thing, when I made a colossal and obvious blunder by forgetting to move my three ANZAC fighters onto the US fleet, I was expecting YOU to offer to null the game. After all if you are a nice guy and an honorable guy you would offer me the exact same courtesy that I offered you. That is the only fair thing to do since I did it for you; at least an honorable person would think that way.

So I waited. I didn’t say anything about the game or the battle and I waited for you to calm down and realize you had to, in the pursuit of fairness, offer to null the game.

But instead what did I get? You claim victory over a time penalty.

Which is really interesting. Because earlier in the game when I was very busy with work and life and you gave me my first time penalty this is what you said…

I understand. I won’t be harsh with bumps, but mainly wanted to make sure you hadn’t forgotten about the game.

Then later after more bumps even though I told you I was busy you said it was not a big deal; I quote…

Anyway, I wouldn’t worry too much about the bump-thing if I were you.

I have never claimed a game due to time-warnings so far, but I think it mainly has to do with my relation to an opponent.

Basically I’m a nice guy, and I look at games as not the end of the world. Still I, as you, have a strong feeling of urging for what I perceive as fairness.

Most important for me is the good feeling of playing and having fun, which is something I can only do together with others. Winning is secondary.

So it turns out that not only are you not a nice guy. Not only are you not an honorable person. You are a liar.

So much for your fairness and winning is secondary philosophy. I can see how important that is to you.

All this over what? A game? Which means what? NOTHING! No one cares about these games. We play them for fun. Sure we all like winning but playing and having fun is paramount. That is why I strive so hard to make sure there are no arguments in the game and it is fair for everyone so when the game is over, win or lose, both players had a good time and are happy about it.

But apparently this particular game means everything to you. You are willing to be a jerk, you are willing to be dishonorable, willing to piss all over your integrity and you are willing to be a liar just to win 1 game. Amazing.

You know for some reason I do not even feel upset about this. I think I should. Maybe I am just in shock. I just feel sad for you.

I thought you were a really nice guy. I had thought I met a new friend online, like @surfer and @majikforce; instead it turns out you are just a jerk and a liar. How disappointing.

So take the game if it means so much to you; I no longer care. Just be assured I will never talk with you or play with you again. I have no interest in playing with a liar and a jerk.

I will continue to do the Tutor game because that is for the community and I made a promise to do it. However, we talked about switching sides and playing a second Tutor game when we are done. I will not do that with you. I will ask the community if they want a second game and if they do I will find another person to be my opponent.

As far as your Tournament I made a commitment to @majikforce to be his partner and I always keep my commitments so I will continue playing. If you have another one in the future I will not participate.

Adios…

@trulpen I would reconsider. While I find playing with no edit rules too stressful (even if I rarely make mistakes), Andrew was very upfront about his policy and you agreed to it. If you were similarly upfront about the bump policy, then this would clearly be a case of ‘rules are rules.’

But instead you made multiple mentions saying the bumps dont mean anything until with no notice given, you changed your mind and applied a rule that in this community is never applied like this and probably should be amended based on this.

@trulpen said in L20 #1 trulpen (X) vs AndrewAAGamer (A) P2V:

I think you are very right in most things you say here, if not all. I didn’t feel good about claiming that time-limit. Might have been a little rash in a bit pressed life-situation.

During the weekend, before the USN-slaughter, I had the option for several days, yet abstained.

I may reconsider, although it might also be too late. Especially since I realize you waited for me to offer the null.

Unfortunately I can’t make this conversation justice at the moment, since I lack the time for it, but will try to later. If you don’t want me to, of if you do, then feel free to tell.

Trulpen - We have a saying in America… “It takes a big man to admit his mistakes.” We all get upset at one point or another and sometimes, unfortunately, we say or do things we really wish we hadn’t said or done. I hope this is that moment for you.

I will await your more detailed conversation. Until you do send that let me throw in my two cents. I see no fair way to officially continue this game. If we do not null the game and only go back and correct my colossal blunder and let me place my ANZAC fighters on the US fleet that is inherently unfair to you as we did not correct your colossal blunder as you turned down my offer. However, since I did offer you to null the game it is only fair you make the same offer to me. Thus the only fair conclusion now is to null the game so neither one of us has to take the loss.

In retrospect I think I made a mistake in not insisting we null the game after your colossal blunder. I was so caught up in admiring your courage to accept your mistake and play on that I failed to consider the long term ramifications once we concluded the game. Unless somehow you could come back from your colossal blunder you of course would have hard feelings that the game continued and rightly so. We should have stopped then. My apologies on that for not thinking it all the way through.

So, I am frankly very disappointed in your response. Especially after I gave you credit for realizing you were being a dishonorable jerk and gave you the opportunity to make amends. Twice now you have hugely disappointed me. There will not be a third time.

Before I say goodbye forever let me address one item first. You are almost correct when you say…

Missing out on the 3 figs was not even close as big a blunder as losing 120 TUV of fleet for almost certainly free because of a new obscure build-rule. Of course, it was still a blunder and obviously so. Anyhow France, Germany and Russia had moved, so moving them back to the fleet afterwards is not an option in regard to your editing-policy.

Yes, the blunders are not comparable but not the way you state. Your blunder resulted in a TUV advantage of +$78 in my favor. Go back and look. For my blunder the expected outcome if my 3 fighters were on the US fleet was -$53. Instead the result was +$185. That is a $238 swing or 3 times as much as your blunder. So, don’t even try and say your blunder cost you more than mine did. Mine cost me three times what yours did.

So, when you had a blunder I offered to make the game just a fun game, or null it as I call it. Yet when I had a blunder that was three times as costly as yours, even though I offered to null the game for you, you did not offer to null the game for me. Now even after I have pointed out to be fair you should have offered to null the game you STILL are not offering to null the game.

Well all I have to say to that is to steal from General McAuliffe… “NUTS!”

I am not going to beg you to do what you should do. I am not going to wait for you to man up. I already have had to do too much to point out the only fair thing is for you to give me the same courtesy that I offered you. For you to say “play on” and I will think about a nullification is just pure horseshit. What am I? Some dog groveling at your feet hoping you will throw me a bone? Go jump in the lake. For someone who says they do not care about the points you are going to extreme measures to try and get them.

I play for fun. I am very busy and what little free time I have I want to enjoy myself and be entertained and have some fun, fair and competitive gaming. I do not want to have to argue or discuss endlessly how to play fairly. That is why I have the edit policy I have to avoid arguments and hard feelings. This game is no longer fun for me. In fact, before I was not mad and now I am. I am angry at your response. I am angry at myself for giving you the opportunity to screw me twice over. I cannot believe that after I pointed out that the only fair thing to do was for you to offer to null the game YOU STILL are not offering me that. Only because I do not like to curse am I not saying the things I am thinking about you right now. This is unbelievable to me. I have NEVER encountered someone who was a big as a jerk as you are. What you say and what you do are complete opposites. What a hypocrite you are. I have more respect for a jerk who acknowledges he is a jerk than someone who says they are a nice guy then is a jerk in reality.

DO NOT TALK TO ME AGAIN!!! We are done. Do what you want with the game; it does not matter to me.

Is a solution in which the sea battle dices are applied and ANZAC rolls for its 3 figs on rd 1, and then those results are implemented in previous sz 21 results acceptable to both parties?