To all you Pro-Israeli supporters here

OOoh oooh ooh! no religion! Sounds like my kinda place….gosh darn those gosh darn bible thumpers… :smile:

“Israel should never of been established imo. It was asking for trouble to start a nation surrounded by hostile neighbors.”

Maybe Islam should of never been established… The founder of the religion was knowingly corrupt, and so how is there such a strong religious following?

There wasn’t an israeli or palestinian state Yanny. There was supposed to be both…and guess what. The Arabs screwed up.

The world needs religion, it gives ignornant people with no incentive to stay good the reason not to be violent.

This all comes down to money and power. The figure of power in the middle east cover up for their own corruption and point at israel and america.

On 2002-04-29 19:19, Yanny wrote:
Israel should never of been established imo. It was asking for trouble to start a nation surrounded by hostile neighbors. People use religion as an excuse, as has almost every violent conflict in the history of the world.

I bet you if we eliminated all religion the world would be, and would of been, a better place.

I totallay agree with this post.
Religion causes far more violence that it prevents.

“The world needs religion, it gives ignornant people with no incentive to stay good the reason not to be violent.”

I totally agree….but isn’t that a BAD thing? and with bad things aren’t we supossed to try and get rid of them??? just a thought…

On 2002-04-30 15:54, Yanny wrote:
A) Islaam used to be “the” religion in the world, hell The Pope got pretty damn afraid. When Europe was stuck in the Dark Ages, and China was in civil war, Bagdad was the most cultured and peaceful city in the world. Read The 13th warrior, good book.

B) There were British and French colonies, which were 95% Arab. Nazi’s screw the world up, and the Jews migrate to Palestine, recieve US backing, and proceede to knock the Arab’s on their asses in 1948.

C) Problem starts in 1967. Israel makes a preemtive strike, and occupies all of Palestine, and parts of Egypt and Syria. This is where Israel screwed up and caused basically every violent conflict we’ve seen in the news in the last 10 years.

seems like you don’t care writing about the fact that israel had to endure artillary attacks and raids daily before their “preemtive” strike. Furthermore, you refuse to admit that immigration to Israel occurred before WW2, and that Israel was to be a multi-racial state, unlike the “jew free” zones in the west bank today.

i am for the USA and no one else

I support Isreal ( it may come as a shock to some of you) . My reasoning is basically the United States and other European nations began to charge huge fees on fleeing Jews trying to escape Germany. The German “solution” was totally unacceptable to be sure but still some of this blame lay on the hands of UK and USA. It was the obligation of the world to protect these people and give them a “seperate” place rather than forcing their integration into another culture. Isreal has the right to defend herself and has done so without our soldiers paying that price (ok their are some exceptions). I hope the next time they try to attack them , Isreal just mops up with another brilliant military campaign. Let them have their place in the sun (albeit a very small one).

I support Israel, because the palestinians are terrorists, and hate the United States. Very simple, its obvious because they burnt our flag and celebrated during september 11th, that the palestinians are our enemies.

Quite right comrade! good post! semper fi!

@marine36:

I support Israel, because the palestinians are terrorists, and hate the United States. Very simple, its obvious because they burnt our flag and celebrated during september 11th, that the palestinians are our enemies.

two words:
cause
and
effect

i’m guessing that if i were Palestinian, i would be hating the US as well. So would you - probably more vehemantly than anyone.

Yanny,

Think about this. Since Israel’s founding in '48, they’ve been attacked by their neighbors FOUR times. And each time, Israel has kicked their muslim butts across their borders. That’s one nation that can confidently say that God is on their side. That being the case, I would want to support them, wouldn’t you?

As God said in the Bible about the Israelies, “I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.” That being said, how many nations throught the ages have attacked, enslaved, and butchered Jews? Each time that nation has been destroyed to include many ancient world powers including Babylon, Assyria, Egypt, and some modern day countries like Germany and Russia. All those nations were destroyed in one way or the other. Babylon, Assyria, and Egypt all perished as cultures. Germany under Hitler was destroyed by the Allies. Russia eventually imploded under communism. And throught the ages, the Jews have survived. They have survived as a race of people since the days of Abraham despite all that was thrown at them. God promised them that he would never cut them off from this world. Yes, Yanny, I will definetaly support those who God supports. :lol:

Rune Blade
“The Master of Debate”

Yes, Israel kicked all their asses without any help at all :roll:

Yes USA won world war two without any help at all. :roll:

Yes USSR won world war two without any help at all. :roll:

Yes England won world war two without any help at all. :roll:

Yes France won world war one without any help at all. :roll:

Yes America won her independance without any help at all. :roll:

and? :wink: :o

@Imperious:

Yes USA won world war two without any help at all. :roll:

Yes USSR won world war two without any help at all. :roll:

Yes England won world war two without any help at all. :roll:

Yes France won world war one without any help at all. :roll:

Yes America won her independance without any help at all. :roll:

and? :wink: :o

well this is all silly.
It’s quite obvious that the Canucks beat the crap out of those sad little German troops quite handily without any help at all.
Don’t mess with a prairie boy!

I’ve been trying to think of something meaningful to say in this thread, and it keeps escaping me. Perhaps the best that can be said is that just because one is pro-Israel doesn’t mean that one has be anti-Palestinian. Certainly the ethno-religious undertones of some of the posts are disturbing, as is the enthusiasm many of the writers appear to have for Israel, since no even-handed account for the Israeli-Arab conflict and Israeli-Palestinian conflict should be gung-ho for one side or the other.

Two points: First, the Palestinians and Arabs more generally are not a homogenous group. I would have thought the latest Iraq incursion would have evinced that, but evidently not. Hamas is not Fatah, which is not Islamic Jihad, or Hezbollah, or even the PA all together. When dealing with this particular situation, sweeping generalizations about the character of a whole society make careful analysis exceedingly difficult. For example, many (probably most) people in the Gaza Strip support Hamas. Is it because they are violently anti-Israel? To an extent, but don’t forget that Hamas provides critical infrastructure and social services. This is different from Islamic Jihad, which is more generally focused on the military aspect. And, while polling data is sketchy at best, generally it appears that the majority of Palestinians want a negotiated, fair two state solution to the conflict that enables Israeli security but sees Palestinian independence.

Second, religious idealism/fanaticism aside, a hard-nosed look at Israeli policy shows a remarkable amount of restraint, no doubt. But the policy of settlements, the separation barrier, assassination, and the disruption of Palestinian leadership and self-determination – these are not things anyone should be happy about. And, as I’ve written elsewhere, no one should be comfortable in accepting the early Zionist ideas that Palestine was uninhabited. That was patently not the case, and plenty of historical records back that up. See for example, Benny Morris’ Righteous Victims. As such, the Palestinians have a point, although they’ve made political mistakes in trying to actualize it: why should the Arabs, who have a history of tolerance to Judaism probably better than the West, have to give up land to settle Western guilt over what they did to the Jews? I don’t necessarily agree with this statement, but most of the previous commentators have got to be much more careful in their thinking about this issue, as it reveals a decided lack of nuance for the complexities of the situation.

Second, religious idealism/fanaticism aside, a hard-nosed look at Israeli policy shows a remarkable amount of restraint, no doubt. But the policy of settlements, the separation barrier, assassination, and the disruption of Palestinian leadership and self-determination – these are not things anyone should be happy about.

Dude, what do you think those little Palestinians do over there? They murder children, they shoot babies in the heads with sniper rifles, they blow up churches, they kill school children, they kill anyone who doesn’t agree with them. That is the Palestinian people. They are incapable of peace. Their religion, and funding from Iran, will continue to make them a terrorist group.

Israel doens’t attack those Palestinians unless they do something to Israel. You know, tit for tat? No one seems to be giving Israel credit for the amount of restraint they show against those savages that scream “Death to Israel” and then blow up their children. I’m one of those people that is glad that Yassir Arafat is dead. I’m glad he’s burning in hell where he belongs. He was the number one terrorist leader of Palestine who constantly allowed suicide bombings by Hamas and Islamic Jihad to kill innocent men, women, and children.

In the end, the Palestinian cause will never win. Yes, their will be peace eventually, according to the book of Ezeikiel in the Bible. But it won’t last long when the enemies of Israel will march against them again (Chapters 38 and 39. I only hope America stays on the right side in this fight.

Rune Blade
"The Master of Debate

First, the Palestinians and Arabs more generally are not a homogenous group

Good post and your correct to point out this reality. We cant blame ALL the people who live in the same area, even though many of them in fact want a world w/o Isreal. They are a homogenous population but come from different backrounds to be sure and any policy doesn’t “blanket” their political dispositions. Thats sounds more like the way you treat school children than nations in conflict.

RB, it is difficult to substantiate what your points, mostly because they are so sweeping and fail in large part to account for the complexities of the situation. First, Hezbollah gets funding from Iran. Hamas and Islamic Jihad…well, that’s a tougher sell. More likely, their sources come from Saudi Arabia.

For your tit-for-tat argument, again, you’re missing a huge amount of pertinent detail. The Palestinians view settlements as inherently a terrorist activity, depriving them not of life certainly, but attempting to make a fait accompli with a view towards final status. This is partly born out by what is happening in the West Bank. Don’t forget, the occupation was frankly quite easy until Gush Emunim and its forbearers decided to establish settlements not for security because of some form of manifest destiny. This provoked resistance because Israel, by tacit if not explicit consent, changed the nature of the occupation. It was no longer temporary, with the ultimate goal of return. As for terrorism more generally, don’t forget it was the Stern Gang that committed the first terrorist act since “Partition” and the start of the 1948 war by killing the UN representative. Indiscriminate attack has a much longer and deeper history in that region than a simple “Arabs are terrorists, Israelis are victims” mentality portrays.

Finally, I find your reliance on religious argumentation objectionable. Not because a religious argument isn’t valid. It most certainly is, although it is an exceedingly poor guide for policy analysis in the manner you have adopted. Rather, your comments about Islam, about how all Palestinians are this way or that, adopting the simple mentality towards Israel I just mentioned – it lends itself to a stubbornness which resists factual challenge, not because the facts aren’t true, but because you are too wedded to an idea to let it go. In short, you’re not thinking critically, and it’s leading you to highly questionable, or derogatory or outright inflammatory, comments.

IL - I’m a little confused by the wording of your post. Are you agreeing with me that the Arabs and Palestinians are not a homogenous community?