AARHE: Phase 2: National victory conditions

Would the American people still have been suportive of the administration etc? IMO, likely not.

Yeah thats interesting.
Although it was too late. Once congress gave the US president the go he had war powers no?

I also think the list is a bit extensive! I was expecting like 2 goals per player.

At first I thought…come on you only need the most important goals. It doens’t mattter how it is achieved.

By then when I thought about it, this lets you gain national victory thru different ways. And thats good too.

Perhaps it is quite big - but as I said before, it gets players thinking about another possibility. It should help to keep the game interesting even when you know you’re going to win.

Charts will be up soon with territory NVP values. I think that’s where I need the most help - the values for territories may need some tweaking.

All I am saying is quantifying losses for battles is not represented in your system, since AaA could represent a Campaign down to a battle, it isn’t the greatest representation of NV… Think Wake compared to Russia…

GG

I’m currently transfering them into individual graphs for each nation, like you asked. I’m already done the allies, and moving on to the Axis. What I’ve posted already would work with the territory values.

actually justified losses can be included by tuning the points
like “objectives” worth more points, “conditions” worth less points

does the transfering to player aids take long?
we are waiting hehe

Sorry. They’re done, and hopefully formatted well enough to be used  :-D

I’ll E-mail Imperious Leader the actual file. Below you’ll find all the information… but the graphs will be destroyed. You should still be able to check through and offer your suggestions, though.

National Victory Points (NVPs)

UK
Preserve and strengthen your colonial empire ~ End the game in control of all areas you started with and at least seven new territories = 10 NVPs
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before America or Russia = 10 NVPs
The battle with Communism ~ Moscow must be captured by the Axis = 10 NVPs
Liberate France ~ Capture Western Europe = 5 NVPs
Battle for Britain ~ Do not allow Great Britain to be occupied by the Axis = 10 NVPs
Maintain military might ~ The total value of the units under your control at the end of the game must be at least 300 IPCs = 5 NVPs

Territory NVP Value
Western Europe 3
Southern Europe 3
Germany 5
Norway 1
Libya 1
Algeria 1
Eastern Canada 1
United Kingdom 5
Gibraltar 1
Persia 1
India 3
Trans-Jordan 1
Anglo Egypt 1
Union of South Africa 1
Australia 1
New Zealand 1
Western Canada 1
Manchuria 1
Kwangtung 1
French Indochina 1
New Guinea 1
Borneo 1
East Indies 1
Philippine Islands 1
Okinawa 1
Japan 3
South Eire 1
Sweden 1
Saudi Arabia 1
French West Africa 1
French Equatorial Africa 1
Italian East Africa 1
Angola 1
Belgian Congo 1
French Madagascar 1

USSR

Build war-time economy ~ Double your income = 10 NVPs
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before America or the United Kingdom = 10 NVPs
Protect heavy industry ~ Never let your income fall below 14 IPCs = 5 NVPs
Defend the Motherland ~ Do not allow the Axis to capture Moscow = 10 NVPs
The battle with capitalism ~ Great Britain must be captured by the Axis = 10 NVPs
Undermine the imperialists ~ Do not allow the United Kingdom or America to gain more than 65 NVPs = 5 NVPs

Territory NVP Value
Karelia 4
Archangelsk 1
Caucasus 4
Russia 5
Evenki 1
Novosibirsk 1
Yakut 1
Soviet Far East 1
Buryatia 1
Kazakh 1
Western Europe 3
Southern Europe 3
Germany 5
Norway 1
Balkans 3
Eastern Europe 3
Ukraine 3
Belorussia 3
West Russia 3
Manchuria 2
Mongolia 1

USA

Revenge for Pearl Harbour ~ Destroy 200 IPCs worth of Japanese units = 10 NVPs
Defend your ally ~ Prevent the Axis from capturing Great Britain = 5 NVPs
Maintain voter support ~ Never lose more than 75 IPCs worth of units during a turn = 5 NVPs
Achieve technological superiority ~ Gain 1 NVP for every technology researched before the Axis and Russia = Maximum of 5 NVPs
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before Russia or the United Kingdom = 10 NVPs
Undercut Stalin ~ Do not allow Russia to gain more than 65 NVPs = 5 NVPs
The battle with communism ~ Moscow must be captured by the Axis = 10 NVPs

Territory NVP Value
Western Europe 3
Southern Europe 3
Germany 5
Norway 1
Balkans 2
Manchuria 1
Kwangtung 1
French Indochina 1
New Guinea 1
Borneo 1
East Indies 1
Philippine Islands 2
Okinawa 1
Japan 3
Eastern United States 4
Panama 1
Midway Island 1
Hawaiian Islands 1
Alaska 1
Western United States 5
Central United States 1
Mexico 1
Brazil 1
China 1
Sinking 1
West Indies 1
Peru 1
Venezuela 1
Argentina 1
Greenland 1

Italy

Establish new Roman empire ~ Control, or have 20 IPCs worth of units in all African territories, Southern and Western Europe, Ukraine, the Balkans, Germany, Spain, Gibraltar, Great Britain, and Trans-Jordan = 20 NVPs
Remain an important part of the Tripartite Pact ~ Territories under your control must always be worth at least 1/3 of Germany’s production value = 10 NVPs
Control the Mediterranean ~ Occupy Gibraltar and the Suez Canal. The IPC value of your naval and air units in Sea Zones 12 to 16 must be at least double that of the Allies = 10 NVPs

Territory NVP Value
Southern Europe 5
Balkans 5
Libya 3
Eastern Canada 1
United Kingdom 3
Gibraltar 2
Persia 2
India 3
Trans-Jordan 2
Anglo Egypt 2
Union of South Africa 1
Panama 1
West Indies 1
Peru 1
Venezuela 1
Argentina 1
Spain 2
Switzerland 2
Turkey 2
Saudi Arabia 1
French West Africa 1
Rio de Oro 1
French Equatorial Africa 1
Italian East Africa 1
Belgian Congo 1
Kenya 1
Angola 1
Mozambique 1
French Madagascar 1

Japan

Imperialism ~ Increase your IPC production by 150% (to 75 IPCs) = 10 NVPs
Establish Co-East Asian Prosperity Sphere of Influence ~ control all home territories plus Chinese Territories, All Islands, Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, Midway, and India.
= 15 NVPs
Become a superpower ~ At the end of the game your IPC production must be 10% higher than Germany’s = 10 NVPs
Replenish oil resources ~ Capture Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordan, and Persia = 5 NVPs
Strengthen the Imperial Japanese Navy ~ Naval units and air units on carriers under your control at the end of the game must be worth a total of at least 225 IPCs, and you must of destroyed at least 100 IPCs worth of American naval units = 10 NVPs

Territory NVP Value
Evenki 1
Novosibirsk 1
Yakut 1
Soviet Far East 1
Buryatia 1
Kazakh 1
Persia 1
India 3
Trans-Jordan 1
Australia 2
New Zealand 1
Manchuria 1
Kwangtung 3
French Indochina 1
Solomon Islands 1
New Guinea 1
Borneo 1
East Indies 1
Philippine Islands 2
Caroline Islands 1
Okinawa 1
Wake Island 1
Japan 5
Midway Island 2
Hawaiian Islands 2
Alaska 1
Western United States 4
Central United States 2
Mexico 1
China 2
Sinking 2
Mongolia 1

Germany

Crush the Red army ~ Destroy 300 IPCs worth of Russian units and/or capture Moscow = 10 NVPs
Establish the Third Reich ~ The total IPC production value of territories under your control at the end of the game must be at least 50% of total production = 15 NVPs
Operation Sealion ~ Capture Great Britain = 10 NVPs
Defend the Fatherland ~ Do not allow the Allies to capture Germany = 10 NVPs
Strengthen the German war machine  ~ The total value of all units under your control at the end of the game must be at least 500 IPCs = 5 NVPs

Territory NVP Value
Karelia 3
Archangelsk 1
Caucasus 3
Russia 5
Evenki 1
Novosibirsk 1
Yakut 1
Soviet Far East 1
Buryatia 1
Kazakh 1
Western Europe 3
Germany 5
Norway 1
Easter Europe 1
Ukraine 2
Belorussia 2
West Russia 2
Algeria 1
Eastern Canada 1
United Kingdom 5
Eastern United States 4
Western United States 1
Spain 2
Switzerland 1
Sweden 1

Remember this is not individual victory but national victory.
So you’ve gotta tell us whats the “pass” mark (how many NVPs).

I always figured it was the person closest to perfect (100 NVPs)

oh…so that would be like an “individual victory” then

individual victory is fine
although it may be tough to balance

I was hoping for a “national victory” so that your team (Axis/Allies) can win the war but your nation essentially lost
(a bit like UK in WWII)

I guess we could have both right?
say after tuning we end up with 5 conditions per player
then you must achieve 3 of the 5 or you’ve “failed as a nation” even if you “win as a team”

Make it so that the player must have at least 66 NVPs out of 100 to have won ‘nationally’, and whoever is closest to 100 is the teams ‘MVP’?

“3 out 5” or so is just to minimize the counting thats all

so we could use the “conditions” primarily
and then count the points to decide on the individual victory player when neccessary

NVP = National Victory Points
MVP = Most Victorious Player?

thats quite different again

this risk-like idea brings a “sudden death” game mode
it also makes you play in a particular way because of a card draw

my idea was national victory leads to each power playing for themselves just as much as for their team
if your team lose, you lose
if you lose as a nation, you also lose

I think to simplify we can still go with Adonai’s system but say simplify to a “3 out of 5” benchmark
cutting down to major things
(Adonai can start a new thread like “AARHE: Phase 3: Individual Victory” and make his rule for individual victory or most victorious player)

I’ve finally digested Adonai’s list
I also read thru the older posts to recollect everyone’s ideas
after writing this I feel we might even be able to cut down to “2 out of 3” but maybe gameplay becomes predictive

we could do a “3 out of 5” system like:

Germany
Establish Lebensraum ~ End the game in control of Western Europe, Germany, Southern Europe, Norway, Eastern Europe, Balkans, Switzerland (if not neutral) and Spain (if not neutral).
Africa Campaign ~ End the game with Germany/Italy control of all territories in Africa if not neutral.
Conquer Russia ~ End the game in control of Russia.
Operation Sealion ~ Capture United Kingdom.
Defend the Fatherland ~ Always in control of Germany.
Strengthen the German war machine  ~ End of the game must be at least 500 IPCs

Italy (2 out of 3)
Establish new Roman Empire ~ End the game in control of Southern Europe, Balkans, Trans-Jordan, Anglo-Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Turkey (if its not neutral).
Remain an important part of the Tripartite Pact ~ End the game with at least 1/3 income level of Germany.
Control the Mediterranean ~ End the game in control of Gibraltar, Algeria, Trans-Jordan, and Anglo-Egypt.

Japan
Conquer China ~ End the game in control of Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, and Kwangtung.
Establish Pacific Control ~ End the game in control of original islands and Midway Island, Hawaiian Islands, Australia and New Zealand.
Post War Superpower ~ End the game with income level higher than Germany.
Secure Oil Resources ~ End the game in control of Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Saudi Arbaia (whether neutral or not) and Persia.
Northern Buffer ~ End the game in control of Buryatia S.S.R, Soviet Far East, Alaska and Midway Island.

USSR
Eastern Europe Buffer ~ End the game in control of West Russia, Belorussia, Uktraine S.S.R., and Eastern Europe.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before US or UK.
Protect Heavy Industry ~ Always in control of Caucasus and Russia and income level always above 14 IPCs.
East Asia Influence ~ End the game in control of Manchuria and Mongola (if its not neutral). Or end the game in control of Japan.
Expand Communism ~ End the game in control of Eastern Europe Buffer, Norway, Balkans and Turkey. Or end the game with majority control of majority control of Mongolia, Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and  French Indochina.

UK
Preserve Colonial Empire ~ End the game in control of original territories, Solomon Islands and Borneo.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or US.
Contain Communism ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe and Norway.
Battle for Britain ~ Do not allow United Kingdom to be attacked by Axis land units for more than 2 combat cycles.
Preserve Military Might ~ End the game with total value of units no less than 300 IPCs.

US
Contain Communism in Europe ~ End the game with UK/US control of Western Europe, Southern Europe,  Norway. End the game with UK/US majority control of Mongolia, Sinkiang, China, Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina.
Battle for Britain ~ Do not allow United Kingdom to be ever captured by Axis.
Maintain Public Support ~ Never lose more than 75 IPCs worth of units during a turn.
Race to Berlin ~ Capture Germany before USSR or UK.
Occupy Japan ~ End the game in control of Japan.

I like Imperial Leader’s idea - it would be great when playing a quicker game.

As tekkyy suggested, we could have national victory using your cards and individual victory using my system? Remember that this is an optional added degree of complexity. Players can use it, but if they don’t want to add the extra layer of complexity they can forgo it. IMO that means it’s ok if the system is complex…

yes all these are certainly gonna with marked with “(optional)”
ok we might as well have it all

mission victory (optional)
national victory (optional)
individual victory (optional)

what to do now:

*comment on my list (for use in mission and national)
*comment on Adoni’s numbers (for use in individual victory)

I don’t like combining “mission” and “national” into this marginal/substantive/decisive victory thing though. This is because thats only good for a gauge of performance. Whereas I am hoping for “national” to push players to give nation and team equal priority.