18L axis-dominion (+4) vs shinji (allies) bm3

Shin-Ji

oh dang, you cannot catch a break this game!

JDOW

and France sucked hard lol

did it?
You lost 2 planes, but except that only 5 inf which is way above average. So you could convert this in losing 1 plane but 3 more ground and you are totally in the average range. imo.
Then 4/10 on the ground which is minimal above average and you won both sub battles.

Looked like a pretty close to average G1 overall except that you have traded a plane to some extra ground survivors in France.

JDOW

In any case an interesting game for sure. I like that you always come up with new ideas.

However, with a bid and not attack on wither 110 and 111 I would definitely not let Bessarabia let go in my G1 DOW.

axis-dominion

true from a tuv perspective, it’s just that given this riskier opening, i really wanted fance to be a total knockout lol i was ok with one plane loss but two sucked

@JDOW:

@axis-dominion:

and France sucked hard lol

did it?
You lost 2 planes, but except that only 5 inf which is way above average. So you could convert this in losing 1 plane but 3 more ground and you are totally in the average range. imo.
Then 4/10 on the ground which is minimal above average and you won both sub battles.

Looked like a pretty close to average G1 overall except that you have traded a plane to some extra ground survivors in France.

axis-dominion

@JDOW:

In any case an interesting game for sure. I like that you always come up with new ideas.

However, with a bid and not attack on wither 110 and 111 I would definitely not let Bessarabia let go in my G1 DOW.

yah I thought about bess as well, but in the end i decided against it cuz I wanted to ensure a strong e.poland so he couldn’t easily counter it (in case I had casualties in that battle), plus I needed one inf to go to yugo for the strafe-then-retreat-to-romania gig, plus one inf to pick up the Romanians. so I kinda had everything allocated out already

JDOW

Yeah, I take air over France regularly as you said, to reduce the amount of losses. Every survivor on the ground is gold in the late game and money the Germans do not have a spend on defense in the west but to invest into mechanized units to fight the red arch enemy :D

JDOW

I did a DOW1 just once in my current playoff game vs Omega. In this game I skipped Yugo entirely because I was too worried a strafe might not work :D

axis-dominion

@JDOW:

I did a DOW1 just once in my current playoff game vs Omega. In this game I skipped Yugo entirely because I was too worried a strafe might not work :D

oh cool I’ll have to check that one out…also, in case e.poland goes especially bad, I would use the last Romanian troop to reinforce instead of picking up the Bulgarians, which would suck cuz that would delay their activation, but anything to ensure my forward tanks are safe from a counter.

this would be like my 5th or 6th G1 dow in bm, tho all my pervious ones were bm2. and I won them all except the one vs Adam. but in bm2 it was a little harder cuz Russia’s lend-lease NOs kicked in immediately.

JDOW

Yes, I understand about EP, by no way you can allow Russia to successfully attack it.
However in my game against Omega, I neither had a bit AND he had an extra Russian fighter in range AND I attacked Bessa and he still did not have a good attack on EP.

I had great dice in that game though but I guess, especially with an extra bid, EP should not be a big deal.

JDOW

I just want to emphasize that killing as many Russian units as possible is the main merit a G1 DOW has. As Russia takes cover behind the defenders advantage the G1 follows the idea to limit the Russian defense capabilities by killing 7 Russians and maybe more in case the surviving Germans hit in defense in R1 at Bessa or Baltic.

I believe by not maximizing the amount of killed Russian a G1 DOW will not develop it’s need as it also comes with some costs.
In your case UK monster fleet, 5 less income, fast units being out of position, so you need some relevant benefit for that.

axis-dominion

@JDOW:

Yes, I understand about EP, by no way you can allow Russia to successfully attack it.
However in my game against Omega, I neither had a bit AND he had an extra Russian fighter in range AND I attacked Bessa and he still did not have a good attack on EP.

I had great dice in that game though but I guess, especially with an extra bid, EP should not be a big deal.

just took a look at yours. ok I see, well we did some different things I guess. you went for 111 whereas I wanted to max on France while still redirecting mechs to the front lines via strafe on yugo. so I needed one of the Romanians for that strafe in order to get all units bounced over to Romania. the other objective I wanted to accomplish was to activate those Bulgarians and get them going eastward as early as possible, and hence that was the other Romanian. didn’t leave me much for bess if I wanted to be safe in my battles and against counters.

so in other words, there were some tradeoffs I decided upon, namely, leave bess alone but get more army activated and shuttled eastward as early as possible.

which is better? tbh I don’t know, I haven’t done any analysis nor will I have time today or maybe even this week. but that would be a good analysis if you have some time for it today or this week, I’d like to hear about it.

JDOW

Also Russia gets +3 for one NO.

Although my G1 DOW went great against Omega I believe G1 DOW is not the optimum for Germany.
in my playoff game I only did it because I wanted to stop the Chinese/Russians from creating a stronghold at Yunnan, which worked.

JDOW

@axis-dominion:

which is better?

I like mine more ;-)

However, mine was more risky and keep in mind my game is Vanilla.

axis-dominion

@JDOW:

@axis-dominion:

which is better?

I like mine more ;-)

However, mine was more risky and keep in mind my game is Vanilla.

of course you do :-) and that’s cool too. there is beauty in variation and more fun in flexibility of options. I certainly didn’t choose a g1 dow because it is optimal. simply to choose something different than the usual and thereby make the game funner and likely more challenging for me.

axis-dominion

btw, like I said, I’ve done the g1 dow a bunch of times early last year/late 2016 in bm2, and I remember that I did try different variations, one of them may have included attacking bess. I just have to dig those old games up and see what I did. they were all interesting/different and fun to say the least.

JDOW

But that was against Adam I guess?
Thus, just because you maybe lost, the G1 might not have been the reason but a) the opponent and b) that I am certain you have improved a lot in the last year, thus you were worse a year ago :)

axis-dominion

@JDOW:

But that was against Adam I guess?
Thus, just because you maybe lost, the G1 might not have been the reason but a) the opponent and b) that I am certain you have improved a lot in the last year, thus you were worse a year ago :)

In addition to the obvious (Adam being a better player than me and yes I’ve improved since then, not sure how much but I do think I have), I remember luck had a hand in it as well. in fact my luck was so bad I asked for a restart lol it was miserable, so he graciously gave me a redo. but even in the redo I remember it wasn’t great…wasn’t a disaster, but wasn’t great either. I’ll have to dig it up and see. it’s been a while

axis-dominion

found it

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=38036.0

so I did restart due to horrible dice as I remembered, and my redo was much better actually (so I remembered that falsely), but I do remember having some early bad luck elsewhere (eg Italian normandy attempt was bad). even regularkid attested to that at the closing comments

anyway, there it is!

JDOW

Oh and btw: Bessa dudes are in range of EP, so in case you kill Bessa you also reduce strength the Russian counterstrike on EP. (Although you had the defenders edge) but as said, especially with the bid and no Russian air in a vanilla bid, EP should not be a problem. You can imo rather attack Baltic with one less hen because G1 is about killing only, not taking territories:D

Shin-Ji

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3

Game History

Round: 1

Purchase Units - Americans
Americans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 4 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Americans

Non Combat Move - Americans
1 fighter moved from Philippines to Guam
1 submarine moved from 35 Sea Zone to 32 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 35 Sea Zone to 48 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Western United States to Central United States
1 fighter moved from Western United States to Eastern United States
1 bomber moved from Central United States to Eastern United States
1 artillery moved from Western United States to Central United States
1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone
1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry, 1 tactical_bomber and 1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
1 infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
1 mech_infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands

Place Units - Americans
1 carrier and 2 transports placed in 101 Sea Zone
1 destroyer and 2 transports placed in 101 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Americans
Americans collect 52 PUs; end with 52 PUs

Purchase Units - Chinese
Trigger Chinese Artillery Supplies: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Open
Chinese buy 3 artilleries; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese
1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Szechwan
2 infantry moved from Kweichow to Szechwan
1 infantry moved from Shensi to Szechwan
2 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Shensi

Non Combat Move - Chinese

Place Units - Chinese
3 artilleries placed in Szechwan

Turn Complete - Chinese
Chinese collect 9 PUs; end with 9 PUs
Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 12 PUs

Purchase Units - British
British buy 1 armour, 1 destroyer and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
UK_Pacific buy 2 armour and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - British
1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 110 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 109 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 111 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Alexandria to Tobruk
1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Tobruk
1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to 96 Sea Zone
1 tactical_bomber moved from 98 Sea Zone to Tobruk
1 destroyer moved from 98 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from Malta to Tobruk
1 transport moved from 98 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to 81 Sea Zone
1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 81 Sea Zone to 80 Sea Zone
1 bomber moved from United Kingdom to 106 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 111 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone

Combat - British
Battle in 106 Sea Zone
British attack with 1 bomber and 1 destroyer
Germans defend with 1 submarine
British roll dice for 1 bomber and 1 destroyer in 106 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 106 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
British roll dice for 1 bomber and 1 destroyer in 106 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 106 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
British roll dice for 1 bomber and 1 destroyer in 106 Sea Zone, round 4 : 0/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 106 Sea Zone, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
British roll dice for 1 bomber and 1 destroyer in 106 Sea Zone, round 5 : 1/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits
Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 106 Sea Zone, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 106 Sea Zone
British win, taking 106 Sea Zone from Germans with 1 bomber and 1 destroyer remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
Battle in 96 Sea Zone
British attack with 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
Italians defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport
British roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 fighter in 96 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.83 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 transport in 96 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
1 destroyer owned by the Italians lost in 96 Sea Zone
1 transport owned by the Italians lost in 96 Sea Zone
British win with 1 destroyer and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15
Casualties for Italians: 1 destroyer and 1 transport
Battle in Tobruk
British attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
Italians defend with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
British roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Tobruk, round 2 : 3/7 hits, 2.67 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Tobruk, round 2 : 0/6 hits, 2.17 expected hits
3 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Tobruk
British roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Tobruk, round 3 : 3/7 hits, 2.67 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 mech_infantry in Tobruk, round 3 : 1/3 hits, 1.17 expected hits
1 mech_infantry owned by the Italians, 1 artillery owned by the Italians, 1 infantry owned by the British and 1 armour owned by the Italians lost in Tobruk
British win, taking Tobruk from Italians with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 20
Casualties for Italians: 1 armour, 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
Casualties for British: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - British
1 tactical_bomber moved from Tobruk to Egypt
1 fighter moved from Tobruk to Egypt
1 fighter moved from 96 Sea Zone to Malta
1 carrier and 1 cruiser moved from 98 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 80 Sea Zone to Persia
British take Persia from Neutral_Allies
1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 39 Sea Zone to 76 Sea Zone
1 destroyer moved from 71 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from Union of South Africa to Rhodesia
1 bomber moved from 106 Sea Zone to Quebec
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Ontario to Quebec
1 infantry moved from West India to India
2 infantry moved from Burma to India
1 fighter moved from Burma to India
1 transport moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from Malaya to 37 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 37 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra
UK_Pacific take Sumatra from Dutch
1 battleship moved from 37 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
1 aaGun moved from United Kingdom to Scotland
1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Scotland

Place Units - British
1 armour placed in Union of South Africa
2 transports placed in 106 Sea Zone
1 destroyer placed in 109 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - British
British collect 30 PUs; end with 30 PUs
Objective British 4 Control Convoy Lanes: British met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 33 PUs
Objective British 1 Original: British met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 36 PUs

Place Units - UK_Pacific
2 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in India

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
UK_Pacific collect 21 PUs; end with 22 PUs
Some Units in India change ownership: 2 armour and 1 mech_infantry

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Germans : -0.67
British : -2.17
Italians : -2.67

triplea_41882_UK_1.tsvg

18L axis-dominion (+4) vs shinji (allies) bm3

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