I should take a pic of my Dutch set up on the map and post a picture….yeah I painted my Dutch pieces orange as well. My Polish are white, Axis Minors light grey, Allied Minors Celery Green…my Strict Neutrals are Ivory and SS black…Germans are dark grey
Dutch would be easy to add in the game, literally at the start of G40, they would only have one or two infantry on UK.
Plus all of their Asian colonies should have infantry and a good portion of their navy played a role against the IJN.
My set up is 1 Infantry and 1 fighter in Sumatra, 2 Infantry on Java 1, and 1 Infantry in Celebes… Navy is a Navy Base, 1 Destroyer and 1 sub in Java, a sub in Celebes and a Cruiser in Sumatra…Good idea on 2 Infantry in UK…mine doesn’t have that. They go on ANZAC turn
Yeah, don’t forget they had around several thousand men that escaped Dunkirk and made it to England. I personally wouldn’t of added the Dutch if it wasn’t for them actually having territory.
Here is my setup for the new neutral Turkey.
Somewhere out there on the forms are a page about how retarded neutrals are in this game and I have worked several attempts to not only get neutrals more realistic but operate under there own rules. Such as their own political stance, having their own navy, airforce, industrial, and infantry. Even some of the pro-powers are not realistic at war. Case in point is Portugal and Iran. With Iran being the most offensive in the game, pro-allies is a complete lie. Iran was invaded by USSR and UK because it opened the Persian trade routes and their was massive fear Iran like Iraq was going to join the Axis powers and the allies didn’t like the idea of Germany and Italy getting oil.
Spain, Turkey, Iran and South America should become playable. Greece should be Pro Allied and I would split Yugoslavia into 2 with one a Pro Axis and 1 a Pro Allied. Bulgaria and Finland remain Pro Axis. Iraq becomes strict neutral
Sweden should be Pro Allied and turned to Pro Axis if Leningrad and Archangel fall.
2 IPC income for all neutrals and add 1 free infantry each turn. They don’t need factories but can place units that are locked with Naval forces being Coastal defense.
Unit builds for Neutrals as follows:
Coastal Defense Navy ( May only move once aligned )
Naval Transports same stats
Torpedo Boat Destroyer A2 D1 C5 M1
Submarines same stats
Destroyer same stats
Coastal Battleships A3 D2 C 15 M1 2 hits to destroy ( represents Cruisers, Pre-Dreadnoughts and dreadnoughts )
Air units
Fighters A3 D2 C10 M4 +1 to Motorized Infantry
Land
AA Guns same stats
Artillery same stats
Motorized Infantry (use truck sculpts) A2 D2 C5 M2 (represents combined independent tank battalions and mobile Infantry with limbered Artillery battalions)
Some of your neutrals doesn’t really reflect actual WWII status. Yugo is a hard one to do because of how the government ended up being divided and they had a coup over which side they joined but Germany DID invade them so them being pro allies is technically true. Spain is pro axis without a doubt, obviously they are not in this game due to making Germany more powerful however that is reality of WWII. Portugal has a defensive alliance with London so if London falls, they should join UK with their colonies. Turkey would be pro allies by politics but the allies wanted them to stay neutral for strategic reasons. Iraq was an Axis power so was Iran. Mongolia should already be part of USSR by the game rules, as Mongolia already was attacked before G40. Sweden is neural, was threatened by both sides at some point. Argentina should be the only South America pro Germany state as they were supplied and had open relations with Germany, not sure if that’s enough to make them pro Axis but enough it would be an interesting idea to work with. I always found the idea that if a country like Argentina were attack, suddenly Afganistan cares about the war when three nations tried to get them to join them and they wanted nothing to do with the war.
Also back to the Dutch army, I forgot this is G40 so the Dutch may have some units on Paris and for sure on Normandy.
This set up…makes me want an alternate rules map…I wish I had the skills to make a new map
I would too. I wanted to put together a 1937 rules and a world map based on that.
I think Caesar Seriona’s last post gets at some of the big difficulties in making realistic neutrals – how do you model fear? How do you model indifference? Portugal’s sympathies were fully with Britain, but they were afraid of Spain and Italy. Spain’s sympathies were fully with Germany, but they were exhausted by their civil war and in no mood to fight anyone. Sweden probably didn’t like either side very much, but they might have been preferred being peacefully absorbed into a British, Russian, or German empire rather than fighting a bloody and doomed war of self-defense. E.g., if Finland had already gone Soviet, how long would Sweden have held out against the Red Army? If London had already gone German, how long would Sweden have held out against the Nazis, etc.
And all of that ambiguity is before you even get into stuff like game balance.
I think if you’re looking for a scripted political game where countries do X if and only if trigger Y happens, then you might be better off with a card-driven game like Twilight Struggle, A Fire Upon the Lake, Labrynith: The War on Terror, and so on.
There might be a fix for the neutral rules in Axis & Allies, but it would have to be something simpler and more symmetrical than a laundry list of triggers.
I think Caesar Seriona’s last post gets at some of the big difficulties in making realistic neutrals – how do you model fear? How do you model indifference? Portugal’s sympathies were fully with Britain, but they were afraid of Spain and Italy. Spain’s sympathies were fully with Germany, but they were exhausted by their civil war and in no mood to fight anyone. Sweden probably didn’t like either side very much, but they might have been preferred being peacefully absorbed into a British, Russian, or German empire rather than fighting a bloody and doomed war of self-defense. E.g., if Finland had already gone Soviet, how long would Sweden have held out against the Red Army? If London had already gone German, how long would Sweden have held out against the Nazis, etc.
And all of that ambiguity is before you even get into stuff like game balance.
I think if you’re looking for a scripted political game where countries do X if and only if trigger Y happens, then you might be better off with a card-driven game like Twilight Struggle, A Fire Upon the Lake, Labrynith: The War on Terror, and so on.
There might be a fix for the neutral rules in Axis & Allies, but it would have to be something simpler and more symmetrical than a laundry list of triggers.
My idea is still better than all neutrals join the other side.
Argothair….yes, When I went to HBG to help play test a WW l game, there was a game that was also driven by event cards so to speak, Some where…hmmmm ok and some where…Blink Whaaaaaaaaaa holy smokes. They were very fun and obviously would make games unique. I do think looking at the Balkans as an example, the events there substantially effected the war. Germany was vastly affected by this in a negative way.
So how I see neutrals effecting the game is in the Med, Mid East (Oil Wars) and Balkans, alignments of Sweden, Turkey and Spain With 2 potential victory tokens being available in this theater.
I also forgot to add Militia to the land unit build of Neutrals
Militia A0 D1 C1 M0
Oil Wars for me used to be very complicated in my house rules games but since I have refined it.
Add a refinery to these territories:
Germany: Romania
Russia: Caucauses
Japan: Manchuria
US: Alaska
China: Suiynan
UKE: Persia (Must align)
UKP: Borneo ( Supports both UK economies turn 1)
Dutch: Sumatra
Italy: ( Turkey, pays 1 IPC to Turkey per turn)
Turkey: Turkey but prefer 2 territories in Turkey { Istanbul and Kars and place refinery in Kars}
ANZAC: Queensland
France: Morocco
Iraq, IndoChina, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia produce oil and can sell oil to any nation that needs it. This is a 3 IPC event during the purchase units phase. If you don’t have an oil token, -1 to movement of all units
So if you have a refinery you are considered in supply and make normal moves. Refineries are subject to SBR damage equal to max 10 damage. No damage is allowed to keep you in supply. Refinery has an airbase and AA…so planes may intercept. Treat a refinery the same way you would a factory…damage repair and all that good stuff…Oil war is a victory token
Victory Token condition: Maintain your original oil producing territory and align or capture 4 additional territories and hold for 1 full turn of your turn sequence…(ie Italy ends turn 5 through Italy ends turn 6)
I also want cities to be a separate territory so as an example the UK attacks Germany it doesn’t capture Berlin or Germany attacks United Kingdom it doesn’t capture London and etc…
That would be a very easy house rule to work in.
@Caesar:
My idea is still better than all neutrals join the other side.
We often use a house rule for the strict neutrals where they are all divided into geographic blocks:
South America = all South American neutrals
Africa = all neutral countries in Africa
Europe = Portugal, Spain, Switzerland and Sweden
Middle-East = Turkey, Saudi-Arabia and Afghanistan
Mongolia = all Mongolian territories
We figured that made a little better sense because it’s like you said, why would Argentina or Afghanistan care what was happening in Sweden. However, Argentina might care more if Chile or Venezuela were invaded.
@Caesar:
My idea is still better than all neutrals join the other side.
We often use a house rule for the strict neutrals where they are all divided into geographic blocks:
South America = all South American neutrals
Africa = all neutral countries in Africa
Europe = Portugal, Spain, Switzerland and Sweden
Middle-East = Turkey, Saudi-Arabia and Afghanistan
Mongolia = all Mongolian territoriesWe figured that made a little better sense because it’s like you said, why would Argentina or Afghanistan care what was happening in Sweden. However, Argentina might care more if Chile or Venezuela were invaded.
Yeah I agree that certain nations will flinch if there partners are under attack. South America was basically pro US with the exception of Argentina as it was really on the fence about Germany. Portugal has a defensive alliance with UK. Switzerland for example would be the only true STRICT neutral in the game, it wanted NOTHING to do with WWII and proved that as its airforce had combat experience.
Trick with neutral nations of any faction, should they be allowed to turn and align to a power or attack each other. so if Axis did this and that x,y or z would align with Allies and vice versa
Example: Morocco is French and Gibraltar is British Spain remains strict Neutral
Morocco, Gibraltar, Southern France and Normandy are Axis Controlled, Spain Aligns to the Axis
Morocco, Portugal, Southern France and Greece are Allied Controlled, Spain aligns to the Allies
Change: Portugal switches to Allied Minor at the start of the game
and
Example: Sweden is Strict Neutral starting the game
Norway, London, Finland, Novgorad and Archangel are Axis controlled, Sweden aligns to the Axis
Norway, Denmark, Finland, Novgorad, Archangel are Allied controlled, Sweden aligns to the Allies
and
Example: Turkey is Strict Neutral starting the game
Egypt, Greece, Cyprus, Iraq and Syria are Axis controlled, Turkey aligns to the Axis
Egypt, Greece, Cyprus, Persia and Albania are Allied controlled, Turkey aligns to the Allies
