Cruiser C11 AD@3 SH@3
B. Cruiser C13 AD@4 SH@4
Battleship C18 AD@4 SH@4
G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)
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Thank you for the warm welcome :-) We don’t play the game too often, so it’s really a pleasure to lend some of the knowledge you guys spit out to make for a better game instead of having to figure it all out yourself.
@baron-Münchhausen
So regards to no setup changes, is the following no longer relevant?Of course, any OOB setup will need adjustments because of much cheaper aircraft and Carrier.
Conversion rating is 2 OOB Full Carrier A12 D20 C72 –-> 3 Full Carriers A15 D24 C78 minus 1 Fighter : A13 D21 C71.
2 OOB Fighters A3 D4 C10 (A6 D8 C20) —> 3 Fighters A2 D3 C7 (A6 D9 C21)
2 Tactical Bombers A3-4 D3 C11 (A6 D6 C22) —> 3 TacBs A3 D2 C8 (A9 D6 C24)
2 Strategic Bombers A4 D1 C12 (A8 D2 C24) —> 2 StBs A0 D0 C5 & 2 TcBs A3 D2 C8 (A6 D4 C26)
2 Destroyers A2 D2 C8 (A4 D4 C16) —> 3 Destroyers A1 D1 C5 (A3 D3 C15)
2 Cruisers A3 D3 C12 (A6 D6 C24) —> 3 Cruisers A3 D3 C8 (A9 D9 C24)
Also, cheaper warships will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.
Submarines are still potent offensive units with pretty good elusive capacity with all special rules.I very much like your ideas of having cheaper fleet. We play with Siredblood’s Bloodbath Ruleset, which have some interesting gameplay stuff and Victory Condition design along with his custom map, but it’s still based on OOP unit statistics and generic rules (scramble, convoy, SBR, etc.), which I - like you, I suppose - feel need something done about them to make for better (yet not too complicated) gameplay. The ruleset limits the game to 8-10 rounds, which works very well for board game days, but also limits especially Allied late game playability. Hence, if navy is cheaper my thought is that you could see earlier action. Do you see this in your games?
I have read through the Triple A “Global 40 House Rules” and there is some very interesting stuff there across the board. Though, the roster you presented (where I quoted from) is just so intriguing - can it be implemented as you have written it in your latest post? (p. 64) Maybe that is the sort of document I am looking for :-)
Currently reading through threads on convoy disruption. Again, I think you come up with some amazing proposals to make convoy rules an actual strategic plan and not just something that happens because X ship ended up in Y seazone after a battle (and everybody forgets to roll out anyway :-) ). Your suggestions of having the choice of attack or convoy + subs on station caught me. Think about a game where Germany does NOT destroy the UK fleets but instead starve their convoys so India and Africa become thin. That is something! Do you have any final conclusion on this?
Sorry for asking this much, I am just inspired by the work both of you have done to enhance the game and want in on the experience :-)
Take care in these times and thanks for taking the time, appriciate it!
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No worries ask away :) The biggest thing I noticed what came out of all the ideas from multiple people and baron’s number crunching was elks A0C5 strat bomber and the A1D1C5 DD. Also the subs can’t be blocked. You add the “convoy” zones and it makes for an interestingt “Battle of the Atlantic”. Which, now that I remember, the TacBmbr has ASW capability to hunt subs as well. I like to stick them on a “Escort CV” with a DD.
Anyway, what I found was Germany could effectively prolong the SS operations to turn 5 at least. This takes away from USSR attack, but forces UK and USA to put a lot of resources into ASW.
SBR is kinda fun because you really want escort. It’s been a long time since I played a game and I’m basically a low/intermediate type player, so there very well could be a fatal flaw to it all. That’s why Elk’s input was so cool because he’s such a good player.
Anyway, you just have to play it out and see what happens. It’ll take a while to find it’s weak points most likely and there are enough other options to counter those that it would take some time.
Basically this just gives people the option of trying a pile of house rules on triplea. Most people would just talk about them but never try them.
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Hi, I played and tested a few things on AA50 1941 and 1942 2nd Ed.
One issue with cheaper warships and aircrafts is that Allies can build up at a faster rate than Axis.
Increasing the number of initial units on the setup were to compensate for the initial lost to help Axis stay ahead in the first game rounds.If you want to give a try without tweaking setup, then assign Axis to the best players.
And play with the house rules.Another issue with smaller games compared to G40, is the StB A0 C5 lack of offensive capacities in regular combat.
Lowering aircraft attack/defense in addition, then Axis lack of initial punch becomes obvious.At least, for each StBomber you should provide an additional TcBomber (and 2 per Axis Strat bombers) for purpose of regular combat support.
So, it mitigates the impact of aircraft with less punch in first rounds, on Axis side.If you need an altered setup for G40, I might find one already written (in my personnal notes) to fit into the above requirements.
Take care everyones,
Baron
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These adjustments are still working for G40, with exception of Japan. At most, I would add a full Carrier (Fg and TcBs) and 2 additional TcBs. In IJN SZ.
The Convoy rule helps delay Allies built up and IPCs losses is balanced also by cheaper warships and aircrafts.
The Subwarefare work well in combination with C5 A1 D1 Destroyer. -
Definitely some Atlantic stuff that doesn’t work optimally in OOP that you adress nicely here.
And I think you’re right - sometimes the hardest challange is to get your group to take in a new house rule and see where it takes the game instead of wanting to stick to the old guns :-) Just glad you guys have laid the work for different things to try.Good points about the navy. If you have a document of an altered setup (and maybe altered OOB unit stats), I would love if you would share!
E-mail: mathias.b.gregersen@gmail.comThank you both for an interesting exchange.
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@CWO-Marc said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@Patchman123 said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
How about making separate blue molds for France, instead of say, using Soviet Union (Russian) pieces painted blue? The regular color for A&A G40 for France? I think that it’s rather silly that ANZAC has its own molds and everyone else has updated sculpts, but not France. France gets knocked out, but later on, after liberation, she becomes a pain in the neck to Germany and Italy.
When the 2nd edition of Europe 1940 / Pacific 1940 came out, I was happy about the various new sculpts they included (including the full distinct ANZAC sculpt set) and disappointed that France’s non-infantry units continued to be blue versions of the Soviet set…but I guess that the single positive aspect of France being short-changed in both the 1st and 2nd editions is that it creates room for a nice sculpt upgrade in a hypothetical future 3rd edition: a full distinct French sculpt set. France is the last player nation left in Global 1940 which has such a large deficit of nationally-distinct OOB sculpts, and it would be nice for that gap to be filled. Global 1940 2nd edition has three minor gaps involving other nations, and it would be nice for them to be filled too in a future 3rd edition, but for the moment the 1941 game provides the means to do so: it has a distinct British naval transport, a distinct Soviet aircraft carrier, and it has an American P-40 Warhawk fighter which can serve as China’s Flying Tiger unit. An interesting question would be what kind of significant sculpt upgrade in a hypothetical Pacific 1940 3rd edition could be provided to balance the significant sculpt upgrade which a full French set would be in a hypothetical Europe 1940 3rd edition? I can’t think of any obvious single major upgrade, but perhaps several small ones would do just as well – for example, filling the minor gaps I’ve already mentioned, plus giving China a distinct artillery piece, plus perhaps reviving the concepts from the original Pacific game to give the US a distinctly-coloured Marine unit.
What about maybe replacing the anachronistic Panzer V Panther with the Panzer IV tank? As everyone well knows, the Panzer IV was the standard German tank in 1940 and I don’t know what Wizards of the Coast was thinking having a Panther in 1940, when it didn’t come out until 1943? The reason for the Panther’s existence (i.e. the invasion of the Soviet Union) was because of the Soviet T-34 tank and the Germans’ experiences encountering said Soviet tank in the Panzer III and Panzer IV tanks.
Of course, for 1940, the gun with the longer barrel will not be necessary for the Panzer IV because that innovation did not come out until well after the invasion of the Soviet Union and the Germans’ encounters with the T-34 battle tank.
What about a Panzer IV sculpt for Germany’s armor piece? I think that a Panzer IV for Germany’s nation-specific armor piece in Global 1940 would make more sense than the current and anachronistic Panzer V Panther and including the Panzer IV would more than do the game justice and I’d like to play it.
How about a heavy tanks upgrade for all players, except, of course, China? These will cost more than the standard medium tanks and Germany will get a Panzer VI Tiger, Panzer V Panther, and Panzer VII King Tiger for heavy tanks, the United States, the M-26 Pershing (or a M4E8 Sherman mega tank) for the United States, A34 Comet for the United Kingdom, KV-1 tank for the Soviet Union, ANZAC will get the AC1 Sentinel as its heavy tank piece, France will get the Char B1, Japan will get the O-I heavy tank for its heavy tank piece, Italy will get the P26/P40 heavy tank. This P40 is, of course, not to be confused with the American fighter plane of the same designation.
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@Black_Elk said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
That would be cool. I’d buy in for sure. It would be a pretty legit offering if it gave the US those warhawks in the Europe set, and the lightnings in the Pacific set. That way we’d get a bunch of warhawks and when you combine the boards you’d have a nice substitution at the ready for the Flying tiger in G40. I’d probably get more excited about seeing some of the 1941 scultps in a 3rd edition than France, but it would be nice for completion. Especially if the manual provided some extra options to expand the game, and perhaps put a new spin on it maybe with marines or vichy stuff. I think a second set up for the Global Board with an alternative start date would be cool and well received. Like they did for AA50
What would also be nice some map corrections for the roundels on Western Canada and Sierra Leon, if doing a new reprint.
How about map corrections on the roundels for all of Canada, Ontario, Quebec, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, British Columbia, Nova Scotia-New Brunswick, and Yukon Territory with this roundell?
And might I suggest changing the Netherlands’ roundel from the current one in the game to this one? The orange triangle was the one used for all Dutch forces, in Europe and Pacific, all over the world, in 1940.
The one used in the game was abolished as the Dutch roundel in October of 1939, hence why its inclusion in a game that is “supposed” to take place in June 1940, is an obvious and rather glaring anachronism.
How about changing Italy’s roundel to this one?
Could you please ask HBG (Historical Board Gaming) to not use Pétain’s personal insignia as the “Vichy France” roundel? This is like using the United States (US) presidential seal as the United States player’s symbol, instead of the more proper and correct star with the red circle in the center. Vichy France used the exact same roundel that France uses in Europe and Global 1940 as its insignia on all its airplanes.
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How about we have the Empire ships serve as the United Kingdom player’s transport ship class?
How making a seperate British transport ship piece?
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@Patchman123 said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
How about we have the Empire ships serve as the United Kingdom player’s transport ship class?
How making a seperate British transport ship piece?
There is a separate British transport. You get 12 in every copy of A&A 1941. Mind you, only 4 are in British tan, the rest are 4 in US OD green and 4 in Soviet Maroon.
The allied transport ship in A&A 1941 is based off of Canada’s “Fort Ships”, which were a class of 198 ships made in Canadian shipyards during the war. They were essentially the Canadian answer to the US’s Liberty ships. All of the Forts were for use by the United Kingdom, those built for Canadian use were named the Park ships.
All that said, WotC has provided separate, Commonwealth-origin, British transports. They just put them in a different game.
-Midnight_Reaper
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@Midnight_Reaper said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@Patchman123 said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
How about we have the Empire ships serve as the United Kingdom player’s transport ship class?
How making a seperate British transport ship piece?
There is a separate British transport. You get 12 in every copy of A&A 1941. Mind you, only 4 are in British tan, the rest are 4 in US OD green and 4 in Soviet Maroon.
The allied transport ship in A&A 1941 is based off of Canada’s “Fort Ships”, which were a class of 198 ships made in Canadian shipyards during the war. They were essentially the Canadian answer to the US’s Liberty ships. All of the Forts were for use by the United Kingdom, those built for Canadian use were named the Park ships.
All that said, WotC has provided separate, Commonwealth-origin, British transports. They just put them in a different game.
-Midnight_Reaper
Well, why aren’t they in Global 1940, then? I think that would be nice!
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@Patchman123 said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@Midnight_Reaper said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@Patchman123 said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
How about we have the Empire ships serve as the United Kingdom player’s transport ship class?
How making a seperate British transport ship piece?
There is a separate British transport. You get 12 in every copy of A&A 1941. Mind you, only 4 are in British tan, the rest are 4 in US OD green and 4 in Soviet Maroon.
The allied transport ship in A&A 1941 is based off of Canada’s “Fort Ships”, which were a class of 198 ships made in Canadian shipyards during the war. They were essentially the Canadian answer to the US’s Liberty ships. All of the Forts were for use by the United Kingdom, those built for Canadian use were named the Park ships.
All that said, WotC has provided separate, Commonwealth-origin, British transports. They just put them in a different game.
-Midnight_Reaper
Well, why aren’t they in Global 1940, then? I think that would be nice!
Because they were trying to figure a way to sell copies of A&A 1941 to the old guard and stumbled on the plan of selling pieces to fill gaps in the piece collection of the 1940s games. As for what, exactly, you get in a copy of A&A 1941, I turn to this website’s archives for a preview of what’s inside 1941: https://www.axisandallies.org/p/axis-allies-1941-preview-unit-details-and-abilities/
I hope that helps.
-Midnight_Reaper
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Am thinking about adding an option for Air/Naval bases. Airfield would only be able to scramble 3 if no damage. 1 damage can scramble 2 and 2 damage only 1.
Naval base can repair unlimited ships if no damage. Only 2 ships if 1 damage and 1 ship if 2 damage.
Might encourage bombing them more. Idk
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@barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
Am thinking about adding an option for Air/Naval bases. Airfield would only be able to scramble 3 if no damage. 1 damage can scramble 2 and 2 damage only 1.
Naval base can repair unlimited ships if no damage. Only 2 ships if 1 damage and 1 ship if 2 damage.
Might encourage bombing them more. Idk
Sounds an interesting way to emphasized the importance of keeping facilities undamaged and fully operational.
You are the wizard of the code. You are probably one amongst the few which can do such into Triple A.
I’m expecting more free time soon.
Hope to have a real time to toy with your development.
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heh heh that’s kind of you to say baron. But my approach is more like throwing spaghetti at a wall and see what sticks : )
Actually I’m not sure if triplea can do that or not but I’m gonna look into it
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@barnee
LOL.
You got me. 😊 -
Update to 2.651
Adds Map Option
19)BB and CA 2 Shot Recommended for use with “Option Redesign” and “Convoy and Blockade”. Battleships now have 2 shots at 4 when attacking or defending and Cruisers have 2 shots at 3. BB Bombard at 2 shots at 2 and CAs 2 shots at 1.If necessary, can be used to prevent DDC5 spammage
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Update to 2.652
Adds when a BB is damaged it may only roll once. Also you must turn off “LHTR Heavy Bombers” in “map options” before game start or it will still roll twice but only use the best one.
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One idea I had ages ago was to make a check whenever you enter a sea are containing enemy naval units to see if you can even detect them (these sea areas are huge). You would need a 2 to detect submarines and a 3 to detect surface vessels.
I am also revamping ground combat to account for more protracted conflicts and change the way armoured and mechanized corps interact with the map. This is kind of based on the 1914 rules with a few ideas of my own to do with how defensible each different unit is or how organized it was.
Every couple of years I feel like playing A&A Global but problem is that the game’s design is kind of dated and there are some new offerings which just add to the metagame and make it so much more interesting though they don’t do scale quite as well as A&A does.
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@mAIOR
Hi mAIOR,we actually use somekind of this idea in Triple A G40 Redesigned House rules, which Barnee constantly update, about detecting Sub, then attacking them.
I played an old A&A rules which was named WWII The expansion. The first booklet developed a combat phase named: Air search communication and combat. Each aircraft (fighters and bombers) were rolling and a “2” and less resulted in spotting Subs in the given SZ. Then, each aircraft proceed to attack. Either @3 for Fighter and @4 for Bomber. However, all other naval units were always visible.
In the Redesigned HR suggested in TripleA, Subs can be spotted and sunk on a “1” only by an Antisubwarfare roll by either Destroyer A1 D1 M2 Cost 5 or a Tactical bomber A3-4 D3 M4. This roll is prior to the Submarine’s Surprise Strike. It is a one shot opportunity before Subs can submerge to not being engaged in a Naval Battle.
This 1/6 roll come out from 2/6 (to search and spot) x 3/6 (to hit with an aircraft). So, 6 out 36 or 1/6 explains this very small odds of sinking a Sub by air, with only Tactical Bomber, or by Destroyer.
We tried to allow Fighter this capacity, but the attrition rate among Subs was too much. And since, Subs cannot retaliate against aircraft, it was not funny at all to see them sunk with no chance of defending themselves.
So, the correct setting was only 1/6 per unit, either DD or TcB, for a single opportunity before Subs submerge.
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@baron-Münchhausen said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@Baron:
As far as combat units go, I would set out these chief goals for fixing busted units in the current (ideally the solutions for the “problem units” should interrelated.)
Deal with the vulnerability of navies to mass bomber spams
Make the Cruiser a worthwhile purchase.
**Fix AAAguns once and for all.Last things first, AAguns suck. This is pretty universally acknowledged. It blows that the unit sculpt is pretty cool, but it just has no good role to play in the game for most players. For me the single most annoying thing about AAguns is how they are restricted the non-combat phase. This makes them an all around headache in addition to being overpriced and underpowered. So lets fix them.**
As for Cruisers, granting them some sort of AA shot on the water, would fulfill the dual purpose of giving them a unique role to play in the naval game, while also helping to mitigate the overwhelming power of Bombers vs Navies. Does anyone object? Or see this as a non-issue? I would love to find a way to make the AAAgun into a normal combat unit, that moves during the normal combat phase, and can load and unload from transports in the same way all the other transportable units can.
If no one objects to a tweak then I would suggest that we find a way to adapt the AAAgun and the Cruiser (oerhaps in a way that doesn’t violate the current battle board core info) perhaps by granting them some special or expanded abilities?Cruiser anti air capalities have been discussed before.
Flak that can move during combat has also been discussed.
I think it’d be nice if we took a look at some of those discussions and settled on something we can all get behind.Not saying we need to iron out all the details right now, but just to looking for some agreement in general principle. :-D
About AA guns, here is the link to a thread which explains my most recent idea and showed many quotes from other people in various thread. Food for thought. :)
Two simpler and balanced ways to handle AAA unit (Antiaircraft artillery)?
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36277.msg1433338#msg1433338I just found that Larry suggested a similar AAA unit on Alpha+.1 brainstorm.
I believe anything similar should be tried to solve AAA issue.Let me be the first one to post on this “Theorycrafting” site.
Flak guns… Just a fancy name for AA-Guns. Flak guns are a new unit. Each would be based on the historical weapon used by the different powers (TBD for sure). Hey, in other words its a new unit that has its own Attack/Defense numbers. Its own cost. It’s own capabilities and use. For example the numbers may look something like this:
Cost 5
Attacks: No attack power
Defense: Only aircraft that are attacking land units in which the Flak gun is located can be shot at. Flak guns can only roll 1 die but can roll for each round of combat, just like other units. Each Flak gun in a territory can roll up to 2 dice per round if under attack by at least 2 aircraft or more. They can be chosen as a casualty. They scores hits by rolling 1s.
Movement 1
Special notes: A player may have as many Flak guns per territory as he wishes.
http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4062
My own idea on AAA wasn’t that far.
@Baron:
As far as combat units go, I would set out these chief goals for fixing busted units in the current (ideally the solutions for the “problem units” should interrelated.)
Deal with the vulnerability of navies to mass bomber spams
Make the Cruiser a worthwhile purchase.
Fix AAAguns once and for all.
ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY A0 D1 M1 Cost 4, 1 hit,
Each round, up to 1 preemptive defense @1 against up to 2 planes, whichever the lesser, works similar to OOB AAA but can defend each combat round.
Stop any blitz, and defend itself @1 against enemy’s ground units, if no attacking air unit is present.
Can move during combat move phase, can be taken as casualty (owner’s choice).Talking AAA for changing.
With the help of Barnee (thanks man), I run a few test on 1942.2 V5 Triple A.
The AAA was
Attack 0
Defense 1
Hit 1
Move 1, both combat and non-combat
Capacity: preemptive 1 @1 against up to 2 aircraft
Cost 3I found that in major battle, with a massive opening round attrition, there is only a few if not at all Infantry surviving. In such cases, I understood why Larry decided to not give any regular defensive capacity at all. Instead, he increase the antiaircraft capacity to up to 3 rolls. In essence, it means that on average AAA survived a round and a half. In that case, giving these rolls in the preemptive phase of the whole battle is to be certain that all AAA have the opportunity of opening fire at aircraft. If it was a regular roll at aircraft, we cannot be so sure that these unit reaches the second or third combat round, meaning a single roll would have been shot.
So, make it only preemptive shots was elegant and simplify the regular combat round: each casualties are similar and left to owner’s choice.
However, at 5 IPCs it was a high cost for a unit which can be dodge pretty easily by not sending aircraft. Making it a pure buffer unit, in essence. Only good for absorbing hits to save other units, like a Battleship, but with no retaliation guns. This seemed broken to me. Or make AAA only good for the main theater battles over VC territory or important IC.
By reducing to 3 PU or IPCs as low cost as an Infantry, it provides a better feel of bunker and defensive fortifications which can be afford to lose on front line, as Infantry are used to be traded.
By giving a small Defense 1, in regular battle, it cuts the capacity to dodge it. It may defend by itself. No need to add more units in the territory. So it remains usable as a cheap fodder. And “1” are still clearly associated with this unit.
So, for balance, at best AAA would have the potential to roll 3 times @1. 2 in the preemptive phase and 1 the regular. 3 pips potential. This is mostly even with Infantry A1-2 D2 but you always get 3 pips in all situations and sometimes 4 when combined. I feel it is ok, since the fear of loosing an aircraft in the opening phase which embodied the AAA unit worth something after all.
Now, here is the interesting narrative part I discovered by toying a few game tests over it. Because of the potential of firing at aircraft, you may want to preserve this unit: if hope is high of winning the fight. But, there is a cost. You sacrifice at least 1 pip of defense (compared to Infantry or Artillery). This little 16,7% odds can sometimes make a true difference in the early combat rounds. By loosing Infantry over an AAA, I can read this tactical situation as the commander is not willing to lose or abandon a defensive entrenched line but at a cost. More soldiers have to pay dearly to keep this fortified position assuming that holding the fort will provide the upper hand the next season or month, if enemy is trying again an assault on that position.
I see this hard choice as an interesting dilemma which happens more often because Powers can purchase more of them.
And don’t be afraid about spamming, by giving no attack values, it is a warranty that Infantry mobility and attack capacity remains much needed.
If you don’t want these kind of dilemma during casualty selection. I believed this type of AAA will fit the deal where is more PUs ressources, like G40:
AAA
Attack 0
Defense 2
Hit 1
Move 1, both combat and non-combat
Capacity: preemptive 1 @1 against up to 2 aircraft
Cost 4
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