Military History's Best Loser

it implies to me you just want to be dick.

And so does all the items you edited out of like 3-4 other posts, Like the “sure dude” comments that are mysteriously gone and forgot to edit this:

The was was between an African empire and a European empire.  Get over it.

“Get it right” only means, you still are trying to angle the comments you made which are wrong into somehow they are right.

This war was not separated by an ocean ( except for the 3rd Punic War– which was really a siege).

The capabilities of Carthage to wage war were from Spain, which was part of Carthage.

And it does not matter if Hannibal was not born in Spain, or that Carthage controlled Spain for 19 years. What matters is where did the war came from, certainly not across the “ocean” or silly arguments like “The majority of land controlled by Carthage was in Africa referencing that somehow it was a war across the ocean”

Only the capitals were separated by ocean. The empires were not.

see you in Oshawa

?

Is that something like Mutual of Omaha?…as in insurance? Wild Kingdom?

IL is afraid to come to Oshawa, and challenge the ranks of the best players at A&A.org.  He knows what will happen to him if he does.

:)

No such place exists. Mutual of Omaha does exist however.

Really?

I always thought Gaylord of California was where you were from.

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Hotel_Review-g60713-d510378-Reviews-The_Gaylord-San_Francisco_California.html

No but i did stay at the Palace Hotel a few times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbJXzwURlRw

Wow thanks for sharing your family video’s with all of us at AA.org

Everything makes sense now. :)

Since IL did such an outstanding job of illustrating that Spain was indeed part of the Carthaginian empire and therefore refuting Mr. Crunch’s ridiculous US/UK analogy. I would like to point out that Hannibal spent the 8 years in Spain prior to MARCHING his army into the Italy. It is also important to remember that the Italian peninsula was not 100% hostile to the Carthaginians.

As far as a possible GDP comparison, I have to strongly disagree with Mr. Crunch. Carthage was not at all “puny.” It controlled vast tracts of some of the most productive lands in the Mediterranean. I find it difficult to conceive Carthage faced a greater GDP deficit than Napoleon’s France. After all Napoleon did fight against nearly ever industrialized nation in the world.

@Last:

Since IL did such an outstanding job of illustrating that Spain was indeed part of the Carthaginian empire and therefore refuting Mr. Crunch’s ridiculous US/UK analogy. I would like to point out that Hannibal spent the 8 years in Spain prior to MARCHING his army into the Italy. It is also important to remember that the Italian peninsula was not 100% hostile to the Carthaginians.

As far as a possible GDP comparison, I have to strongly disagree with Mr. Crunch. Carthage was not at all “puny.” It controlled vast tracts of some of the most productive lands in the Mediterranean. I find it difficult to conceive Carthage faced a greater GDP deficit than Napoleon’s France. After all Napoleon did fight against nearly ever industrialized nation in the world.

Napolean also had a significant list of allies.  Just look at the composition of Le Grande Armee

At its height in 1812 consisted of 554,500 men:
• 300,000 Frenchmen and Dutchmen
• 95,000 Poles
• 35,000 Austrians
• 30,000 Italians[1]
• 24,000 Bavarians
• 20,000 Saxons
• 20,000 Prussians
• 17,000 Westphalians
• 15,000 Swiss
• 4,000 Portuguese
• 3,500 Croats

Just look at the invasion of Russia.  At the time he really wasn’t fighting anyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon's_invasion_of_Russia

@Gargantua:

@Last:

Napolean also had a significant list of allies.

Agreed

I do wish it was possible to compare the GDP differential.

Well it’s easy. We can start by comparing apples and oranges!

…

…

Nevermind.

I like both

although the fruit in the picture doesn’t look very happy

Just remember… you’re the one giving fruit emotions.

I think Mal’s arguement has more -substance in reality- if we’re going to go there… ;)

@Gargantua:

I think Mal’s arguement has more -substance in reality- if we’re going to go there… ;)

Yeah I was aware of your position so I will have to disagree with you both. Good discussion though.

Hannibal spent the 8 years in Spain prior to MARCHING his army into the Italy

Hannibal only took over in 221 BC.  He did spend a number of years at the side of his family/father in pacifying Iberia.  A newly conquered land in my opinion is not an integral part of the empire, moreover it was only a portion of Spain.  I don’t recall ever saying part of spain was not part of the empire, but straw-men are so much more fun and easy to defeat.  I would not consider the Spanish holdings as a major portion of the empire, to the extent it would transform Carthage into a European power rather than an African power.  So I maintain that Cathage was primarily an African power fighting a primarily European power and that those two powers had a SEA between them that would hamper reinforcements and communication.

By the second punic was Carthage was not as strong as it once was, but stronger than I had thought upon further readings.  I also should have used the word sea rather ocean so point taken, Mea Culpa for poor choice of word.  My point which seems to be lost was that in my opinion it took a bit of skill to fight when you have a large waterway that separates you from your center of gravity.

Napoleon did revolutionize manpower.

In your defence Mal, old technology had a huge part to play as well…

I don’t recall ever saying part of spain was not part of the empire, but straw-men are so much more fun and easy to defeat.

I do recall the same very same strawman asserting the war was separated by an “ocean”, with excuses about where was Hannibal born, and “they only had it 19 years” being failing arguments.

Glad that was put to rest.

And yes it was fun.

I said Hannibal was no Spanish, am I not correct in that statement IL?

IL says:

It was ( the 1st and 2nd Punic wars) where Hannibal the General born in Turkey ( not Spain or Carthage) commanded an army dispatched from part of the empire in what was to become Spain in an attack against Rome.

IL, you claim Hannibal the General was born in Turkey?  Can you cite your sources please?

IL, you are correct in that I should have used the word sea rather than ocean.  Point for you.  So, where was Hannibal born again?  Is this where I would say “Get it right?”  Such an unfriendly statement that is……  Glad that was put to rest.  And yes, it was and continues to be fun.

The 19 years was the length of time New Cathage was a possesion of Carthage, hardly an integral part of their empire in my opinion.  Again, I assert Carthage was primarily an African based empire and that an ocean…rather a sea was between Rome and Carthage proper sans their recent conquests in Spain which did not make them a European power.

I said Hannibal was no Spanish, am I not correct in that statement IL?

You said it like since he was not from Spain, the attack from Spain was somehow less or that you think he was from Carthage, but he was not. That makes your point useless to any discussion.

IL says:
Quote
It was ( the 1st and 2nd Punic wars) where Hannibal the General born in Turkey ( not Spain or Carthage) commanded an army dispatched from part of the empire in what was to become Spain in an attack against Rome.

IL, you claim Hannibal the General was born in Turkey?  Can you cite your sources please?

My Masters in History from Stanford says it. It is common knowledge and i don’t do your homework.

IL, you are correct in that I should have used the word sea rather than ocean.  Point for you.  So, where was Hannibal born again?  Is this where I would say “Get it right?”  Such an unfriendly statement that is……  Glad that was put to rest.  And yes, it was and continues to be fun.

It does make fun discovering all your mistakes, since you know little about this period.  This is where you say “sure dude” and edit out everything and come back calling me a “dick” LOL. So stupid.

The 19 years was the length of time New Cathage was a possesion of Carthage, hardly an integral part of their empire in my opinion.  Again, I assert Carthage was primarily an African based empire and that an ocean….rather a sea was between Rome and Carthage proper sans their recent conquests in Spain which did not make them a European power.

The 19 years garbage is your manner of reasoning that New Carthage was somehow nothing but “bases”. It was from a coastal empire based in Europe and Africa against a republic based in Rome. You still don’t get it. The war ( at least the 1st and 2nd Punic wars) was not a war across the sea, rather it was a conflict separated by the alps and some distance ON LAND between.

The only thing true is the capital of each was across the sea, but the empires were basically close by LAND.

So get it right and stop angling out of the rope.