Military History's Best Loser

GARGANTUA

1. I like how you left out the PERHAPS when I stated the Roman Republic was also loosely unified. Very convenient of you to do so. But anyway there is this

Hannibal’s perilous march brought him into the Roman territory and frustrated the attempts of the enemy to fight out the main issue on foreign ground. His sudden appearance among the Gauls of the Po Valley, moreover, enabled him to detach those tribes from their new allegiance to the Romans before the latter could take steps to check the rebellion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal

2. Hannibal MARCHED into Italy with a CARTHAGINIAN army. Does that not show support?

He did not receive reinforcements from Carthage. Maybe the Carthaginian Senate didn’t think he could win?

As for the last 4 pages of debate - for the record this is what’s being debated:
Quote
Quite the feat shipping Elephants to Europe (TRUE). Quite the feat surviving 10 years a sea ocean away from home in hostile territory (MOSTLY TRUE). Transportation was a bit more challenging in Hannibal’s time compared to Napoleon (FACT)

What’s the problem here?

The problem is you don’t understand what the argument is, and make up whatever you think you can make sense from.

The war was conducted from the European part of Carthage in Iberia, into Rome. Not a war fought between the “ocean” ( using Crunch’s language). The war was from land to land.

You look like and Idiot IL. Congratulations.

In your words:

and the starving was in the third punic war, which we are NOT TALKING ABOUT.

In histories words:

The Roman army under Quintus Fabius Maximus intentionally deprived Hannibal of open battle, while making it difficult for Hannibal to forage for supplies

Last Gargantua:
You made the following entirely false claims:

1. Most everything you posted

2. Not including the map which sinks you.

The attack from Suguntum to Itlay was overland.  However, for carthage, the war was -overseas-.  Hence Hannibals consistent requests for reinforcements from home (Overseas).  Since Hannibal himself stated the conflict was Overseas, I don’t see why you want to contradict him?  I sure wouldn’t.

You got it wrong or misleading again…

The first and second punic wars were fought from Spain into Italy.

The assault on Saguntum ( not Suguntum like you write) predated the second Punic War. Show me at least one source that has the Carthage army and Hannibal landing by sea into Italy…It didn’t happen and the war was not across the sea.

Hannibal wasn’t around in 141 BC; and they starved his army IN EUROPE for 15 years.

Typo, meant 146. But you still know nothing and failed at everything you posted.

Does it feel good?

What about this Failed Statement of yours?

Imperious Loudmouth SAYS: and the starving was in the third punic war, which we are NOT TALKING ABOUT.

Hey IL, NEWSFLASH Hannibal wasn’t alive during the third punic war, and the romans STARVED his army during the second.

• Realizing that Hannibal’s army was outrunning its supply lines quickly, Rome took countermeasures against Hannibal’s home base in Africa by sea command and stopped the flow of supplies.
• The Roman army under Quintus Fabius Maximus intentionally deprived Hannibal of open battle, while making it difficult for Hannibal to forage for supplies

1. Admit the truth, you’re wrong.

2. Conceed!

3. You’re surrounded!

4. You just lost your battle of ZAMA! OVER THE NET

Pwnd. Your ineptitude triggered your spam.

You look like and Idiot IL. Congratulations.

Nice grammar!

In your words:
Quote
and the starving was in the third punic war, which we are NOT TALKING ABOUT.

In histories words:

Quote
The Roman army under Quintus Fabius Maximus intentionally deprived Hannibal of open battle, while making it difficult for Hannibal to forage for supplies

Now you shift to another event? In the third Punic war the capital of Carthage was put into protracted siege. This is the only time where the fight was across the sea because the invasion force traveled entirely by the Mediterranean. However, we are not talking about this.

@Imperious:

You look like and Idiot IL. Congratulations.

Nice grammar!

In your words:
Quote
and the starving was in the third punic war, which we are NOT TALKING ABOUT.

In histories words:

Quote
The Roman army under Quintus Fabius Maximus intentionally deprived Hannibal of open battle, while making it difficult for Hannibal to forage for supplies

Now you shift to another event? In the third Punic war the capital of Carthage was put into protracted siege. This is the only time where the fight was across the sea because the invasion force traveled entirely by the Mediterranean. However, we are not talking about this.

THE BATTLE OF ZAMA WAS ACROSS THE SEA FROM ROME. DURING THE SECOND PUNIC WAR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Zama

I don’t know how much clearer I can point that out…

Wrong x 2

What about this Failed Statement of yours?

Quote
Imperious Loudmouth SAYS: and the starving was in the third punic war, which we are NOT TALKING ABOUT.

Hey IL, NEWSFLASH Hannibal wasn’t alive during the third punic war, and the romans STARVED his army during the second.

Newsflash: i didn’t say he was alive or not, unless you are so dumb as to think Hannibal changed his name to the " third Punic war"?

• Realizing that Hannibal’s army was outrunning its supply lines quickly, Rome took countermeasures against Hannibal’s home base in Africa by sea command and stopped the flow of supplies.
• The Roman army under Quintus Fabius Maximus intentionally deprived Hannibal of open battle, while making it difficult for Hannibal to forage for supplies

The war was from Spain with an army raised in Spain. You failed again to learn.

1. Admit the truth, you’re wrong.

2. Conceed! �

3. You’re surrounded!

4. You just lost your battle of ZAMA! OVER THE NET

Pwnd. � Your ineptitude triggered your spam.

well spoken 13 year old kid who has no clue and still posts like a child.

For a guy who makes maps for a living, you should know how to read one.

You see the LEGEND?  Where it says MAJOR BATTLES.

Now look at ZAMA in AFRICA. Across the sea from Italy.  And what do you see?  A MAJOR BATTLE across the Sea….

THE BATTLE OF ZAMA WAS ACROSS THE SEA FROM ROME. DURING THE SECOND PUNIC WAR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Zama

I don’t know how much clearer I can point that out…

Wrong x 2

LOL…… fought at the end of the 2nd Punic war. It doesn’t change the fact that the war was over land.

The Second Punic War (218 BC � 201 BC) is most remembered for the Carthaginian Hannibal’s crossing of the Alps. His army invaded Italy from the north and resoundingly defeated the Roman army in several battles, but never achieved the ultimate goal of causing a political break between Rome and its allies.

IL Per your statements. Do you actually believe the Battle of Zama never happend?

In the third Punic war the capital of Carthage was put into protracted siege. This is the only time where the fight was across the sea because the invasion force traveled entirely by the Mediterranean.

Because you say that the only battle -across the sea- occurred during the third punic war?

History tells a much different story than your “American” version of events.

Personal Message (Online)

Re: Military History’s Best Loser
� Reply #122 on: Today at 01:41:04 pm �

0 Vote Down Vote Up
Reply with quoteQuote Split TopicSplit Topic

For a guy who makes maps for a living, you should know how to read one.

I don’t make them for a ‘living’ but so others to use and enjoy.

You see the LEGEND?  Where it says MAJOR BATTLES.

Now look at ZAMA in AFRICA. Across the sea from Italy.  And what do you see?  A MAJOR BATTLE across the Sea….

At the end of the war, the final battle…

The war was conducted primarily from land to land into Rome. Not across the sea. Get it right, just once.

The war was from Spain with an army raised in Spain.

ARE THERE ELEPHANTS IN SPAIN?!?!?!?!??!

ARE THERE ELEPHANTS IN SPAIN?!?!?!?!??!

They were transported into Spain by boat, raised and traveled by land into the Alps.  Some of them were from India.

But when the war started and was mostly fought, it was by LAND.

LAND

Let’s see here IL… according to all of your arguements

1. The Battle of Zama did not occur because there were no overseas battles

2. Hannibal had no elephants, because he raised his army in spain

3. Hannibal won the second punic war because his army wasn’t starved as starving/seige only occured in the third punic war.

Wow…

Further evidence supporting my supposed false claim #1

Furthermore, the morale effect of this victory was such that most of Southern Italy joined Hannibal’s cause. After the Battle of Cannae, the Hellenistic southern provinces of Arpi, Salapia, Herdonia, Uzentum, including the cities of Capua and Tarentum (two of the largest city-states in Italy) all revoked their allegiance to Rome and pledged their loyalty to Hannibal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae

@Last:

Further evidence supporting my supposed false claim #1

Furthermore, the morale effect of this victory was such that most of Southern Italy joined Hannibal’s cause. After the Battle of Cannae, the Hellenistic southern provinces of Arpi, Salapia, Herdonia, Uzentum, including the cities of Capua and Tarentum (two of the largest city-states in Italy) all revoked their allegiance to Rome and pledged their loyalty to Hannibal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae

Acceptable supporting facts.  That’s what we need to see.  I retract my claim having seen you prove your own!

http://www.electrummagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Hannibal-journey-map.png

Only Gargantua can take a map which clearly shows where by dates the war began and was mostly fought ( by land) by commanders who fought on land, and call the Punic Wars a war fought across the sea. The map you posted shows very clearly that all the major battles occurred from the direction of Spain, so if you were to say “was this a war between the sea, or a war between two points across land” you would infer this was clearly a war from land to land.

You fail again.

IL believes elephants come from spain. I don’t know how that can be fixed unless he admits he was mistaken.

Regretably… he lacks the -adult level maturity- to do that.

How do Elephants get from Africa to Europe?  Anyone care to explain this mystery?

Oh wait… let me guess… they ride on a boat right?  Or did Hannibal have RAIL movement!!!