Unit Lineup speculation/wish list

You refer to “The Russians” as thought he Bolsheviks simply staged a coup and took over the whole of the Russian Empire.

In fact “Whites” still held large areas of the south and Siberia, and the Allies wanted to help them keep the war going.

The Bolsheviks did want to get out of the war, but not at any price. Hence the treaty of Brest-Litovsk.

The simplest way to represent this is that the Bolsheviks evacuate the areas ceded to German influence (essentially those areas which are now independent of Russia), and the Germans and their Allies are free to move into them. In effect the partition of 1939 is pre-created, though the line is father east.

But non-Bolsheviks had no part of the treaty, and should be free to continue attacking the CP and Bolsheviks at will. The Allies should have the choice of supporting the Whites as much or as little as they wish. Full support might aim at restoring Imperial Russian authority by capturing/liberating Petrograd and Moscow and so restoring Russia as a full Allied partner; partial support simply at threatening German gains in Ukraine etc; no support would accept the Revolution as a fait accompli, and concentrate on the battle in the west.

So… a full set of “Red” pieces, representing revolutionaries in any country that breaks down according to certain criteria. Whatever conditions apply to Russian order collapsing should apply to all the beligerent powers. Revolts might occur in individual tts, if the local population is largely of a different nationality, placing “Blacks” (nationalist) factions in power. Almost all countries had to face rebellions of some kind.

In Russia, then, we might end up with Red Bolsheviks controlling Moscow and central Russia; Germans and Austrians occupying the Baltic States and Poland; Black Nationalists in power in the Ukraine; White Russians in the south and Siberia; and forces from 5 Allied powers occupying coastal provinces in the North. All very interesting, and totally historical.

If the Central Powers crack first, there could be a German Soviet government in Bavaria (reds); an independent Poland carved out of provinces from 3 falling empires(blacks); French troops occupying the Rhineland; and the emergence of extreme nationalist Germans fighting the reds on the streets. Again, not entirely unhistorical.
But this then becomes a little complicated; who controls the Bavarian communists?

All we need to accomplish this is new sets of “Red” and “Black” units; the Whites will be the original Russian Imperial units.

@Imperious:

So, you’re saying that in November 1917 Russian goes off and fight its own civil war, so we just ignore it?

The Russians were in control of affairs relating to the fighting against Germany until the time they folded and effectively surrendered. The Bolsheviks concluded peace with Germany and Russia had no further part of the Great War.

You only need rules dealing with when Russia falls, and that is hastened by German occupation of key areas. The Bolsheviks didn’t want any part of the war, they just wanted to be out of international wars and maintain control of the government.

To include them as a allied faction fighting with the central powers is a complete misguided connection; the Russian player is either fighting Germany or not. Once they are not they are out of the game to fight their own internal divisions. The analogy regarding China is only partially plausible. IN China’s case, both factions fought the Japanese. The Bolsheviks had no interest in fighting Germany and being part of that war. I don’t know of any historian who links the Great War with the Russian Civil War. They are separate conflicts and to bring them into the Great War is just adding stuff to have “more pieces to play with for craps and giggles” type of thing.

Regarding Stormtroopers;

I don’t like the suggestion of being able to “buy” elite infantry, rather that they are promoted with battle experience.

That is;

Whenever you win a battle as the attacker in which basic infantry survive, those infantry can be promoted to Elite/Veteran/Storm-Trooper units at the cost of 1 IPC per unit (modern equipment). You can never promote more infantry than the number of enemy units eliminated in the battle.

I would like to see Tech make an actually usefull apperance. Stuff like Strom Trooper tactics, creeping barrages and what not to make your units more effective.

Regarding Stormtroopers;

I don’t like the suggestion of being able to “buy” elite infantry, rather that they are promoted with battle experience.

Stosstrupen were extensively trained troops in infiltration tactics. It is not the case that soldiers that “won battles” would be promoted. It was not the SS. The rules do allow Germany to promote one infantry per turn into Stormtroopers, any more than that they need to buy.

“Stormtroopers in 1918
With the withdrawal of Russia, Germany moved troops from the Eastern Front to reinforce the Western Front. This allowed them to take units out of the line for retraining as storm troopers.”

Potential tech units:

3 types of fighter as discussed

Bomber

Flying Boat

Aircraft Carrier

Tank

AA Gun

Armoured Train

Germany presumably starts with Zeppelins, but can they do SBR immediately? Airships possibly a tech for other powers

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wwi+in+colour&oq=wwi+in+colour&gs_l=youtube.3..0l3.2865.5521.0.5756.13.9.0.4.4.0.291.777.8j0j1.9.0…0.0...1ac.1.8fubkHP2lbw

3 types of fighter as discussed

Bomber

Flying Boat–-seaplane

Aircraft Carrier— no such thing, it was sea plane carrier, and the planes were only for forward observation and spotting for warships

Tank

AA Gun—no such thing, not developed to the extent where they can be represented.

Armoured Train—well very marginal, this is nothing but trains with guns—certainly not a major combat unit

Germany presumably starts with Zeppelins, but can they do SBR immediately? Airships possibly a tech for other powers—yes that was the entire intention from the start–terrorize the population and have capacity for good load.

Larry said no tech

Oh that game… well yes

He hasn’t seen this, then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT6TCcIGGWg

@Yavid:

Larry said no tech

I have those DVD’s

Haven’t seen parts 7 & 8 before; don’t think they were broadcast.

HMS Ark Royal was the first ship in history designed and built as a seaplane carrier.
HMS Anne was a seaplane carrier of the Royal Navy used during World War I.
HMS Argus was a British aircraft carrier that served in the Royal Navy from 1918 to 1944 Only had her start in Sept 1918, war was over in two months so no.
HMS Ben-my-Chree (Manx: “Girl of My Heart”) was a packet steamer and a Royal Navy seaplane carrier of the First World War.
HMS Campania was a seaplane tender
HMS Empress was a seaplane carrier of the Royal Navy
HMS Engadine was a seaplane tender
Furious was recommissioned on 15 March 1918, and her embarked aircraft were used on anti-Zeppelin patrols in the North Sea after May. In July 1918, she flew off seven Sopwith Camels which participated in the Tondern raid, attacking the Zeppelin sheds there with moderate success.
HMS Hermes was a seaplane tender
TSS Manxman was a seaplane tender
HMS Nairana was a seaplane carrier of the Royal Navy
HMS Pegasus was an aircraft carrier/seaplane carrier bought by the Royal Navy in 1917 ( no missions against other ships was ever flown)
HMS Raven II was a seaplane carrier of the Royal Navy
HMS Riviera was requisitioned by the Admiralty on 11 August 1914 and converted by Chatham Dockyard to carry and operate four seaplanes.
HMS Slinger was an experimental catapult ship ( another seaplane tender)
HMS Vindex was a Royal Navy seaplane carrier

So no “Aircraft Carriers in world war one”

I am very disturbed by the fact that tanks will be available from turn 1. The whole no tech thing requires it be that way but this is a massive miscarriage of history to a rather revolting degree. Depending on how the initial set-up is and what the starting economies are, we are facing a scenario where some of the better off nations, like Germany and Britain maybe, will not need to buy anything else but tanks from the word go. If there starting forces are large enough they might only need to buy tanks to augment their existing forces. Given that Germany only produced around 20 tanks during the war, having any by the end of turn one would be ridiculous.

Dose this not bother anyone else?

Thats why the other world war one game will be better. No candyland.

Of course in that game, tanks will be a technology upgrade and the first house rules will include technology.

@Imperious:

Thats why the other world war one game will be better. No candyland.

What other game?

Can’t say too much, but you will be shocked how great it will be. And it will be.

I’m disappointed that the official A&A version will be so lightweight. I’m unconvinced that the target audience want it that way. Nevertheless the game will be ripe for pimping, with techs the obvious place to start.

I suspect that it won’t be quite as bad as you suggest; perhaps the introduction of tanks will be only after a number of turns; then again the USA coming in as early as turn 4 means that the game clearly pays little regard to the historical time line.

And no bombers? Rail transport? Cavalry? = Risk 1914.

@Clyde85:

I am very disturbed by the fact that tanks will be available from turn 1. The whole no tech thing requires it be that way but this is a massive miscarriage of history to a rather revolting degree. Depending on how the initial set-up is and what the starting economies are, we are facing a scenario where some of the better off nations, like Germany and Britain maybe, will not need to buy anything else but tanks from the word go. If there starting forces are large enough they might only need to buy tanks to augment their existing forces. Given that Germany only produced around 20 tanks during the war, having any by the end of turn one would be ridiculous.

Dose this not bother anyone else?

@Imperious:

Can’t say too much, but you will be shocked how great it will be. And it will be.

Are you referring to another game using the A&A map or something you are publishing? Your entire posting is highly ominous.

On the side, WWI is very interesting because all sides are equally evil. I always  feel a little horrible celebrating a WWII axis win. Maybe that’s just me…

I’m still perfectly optomistic about the game, we hardly know enough to really make judgments yet. Plus I’m just excited to have a ww1 game (sorry, whatever you guys are talking about just sounds far to complicated for me to pay attention to)

First draft of unit specifics and preferred models.

(attached)

GreatWarC.xls