AA guns on the front lines

Seth,

I believe, and I have not talked to Larry in a LONG time mind you, that may have been one of the reasons for making them casualties.  I know the MAIN reason was to give England a little more OOMPH without giving them more power to hurt Germany (thus limiting Sea Lion a bit without totally overwhelming the massively underpowered European axis).

Those are my opinions, however.  (Except for the “main” reason, which I have a PM from Larry stating that it was the reason.)

wow european axis is powerful to me. 10 inf round 1. round 2 some artillery rest mech/tanks… you get a huge rush on russia. allies have to build naval to guard their transports then transports then men for them…that takes time… so there are no worries for germany for a good 3 rounds at least.

Man I am freaking going to war japan 1 and walking away with wins everytime. I even play tested some allies strats against myself, because I know the standard g1 . all ground that can reach france goes to france and crushes it. 2 sub BB or 1 sub BB to 110 3 fighter 3 tactical fighter. 2 sub to 111 1 fig 1 tac fig and 2 bomber.

slam yugo.

round 2 buy artillery/inf in germany sometimes a few mech/tank in germany (catch up to main force 1 space faster, which is good vs a russian who buys lots of artillery and some tanks to keep germans back). west germany all mech/tank.  move everything east. germany air blasts medit sea. sometimes hold alexandria for italy. sometimes something else. depends.

round 3 you are pushing russia no problem.

with mech/tanks russia ain’t holding bryansk, because of the blitz from belarus to russia, plus he won’t have enough to kill your belarus stack. and no more trading units in ukraine once he walls back to russia…the 12-14 inf +2 art in bessarabia can then hold ukraine no problem. then you merge in bryansk, then you push to tambov and behind that is the last minor volgograd and now all the minors are yours to build off of…  and that is it for russia folks. just a matter of time.

it is like clockwork, russia just gets owned. Allies have to fly stuff in or  blitz mech/tanks up from minor ic or uk pac. take africa seriously so russia can blitz his little 1 tank 1 mech around to get +19 NO money… which is russia’s only hope of stalling out, but don’t make all that till round 8 at the latest and the rush is timed for 9.

you should not keep guys in holland or normandy. west germany/germany is good. itally should be on the home defense game after a certain point.

Cow,

One day we need to play so I can show you how quickly I can make the British Empire beg for mercy.  ^_^

@Cow:

wow european axis is powerful to me. 10 inf round 1. round 2 some artillery rest mech/tanks…

Consider artillery round 1 instead of infantry, then later rounds your mech/armor can reinforce the spearhead.

Cow,

One day we need to play so I can show you how quickly I can make the British Empire beg for mercy. � ^_^

I prefer low luck games with people like you. You remind me of Bayder, except he only played LL games and always got mad at me, because I sometimes did a “gambling” strategy and got “lucky”… so we would have to play “extreme low luck” with spreadsheets on the dice rolls.

The problem with global is the medit sea, on one hand italy can dice UK by scrambling 3 fighters and getting 4-24% odds to defend… on the other hand typically there are a bunch of 1-2 ship stacks that remain… there are some games where they all miss and some where they all hit.

So each game italy is either weaker, average, or stronger. It makes a big difference in how the game develops.

I don’t know, UK usually fights with italy, especially if USA is going full pac… you got to make the EGY minor to stop italy from getting africa and eventually shut him down with naval parked in SZ 97.

Lately half the allies seem to go full pacific with USA, uk tries to shut italy out of the game, and after pacific usa flies fighters into russia…

The other half people do balanced buys.

Half the germany players buy ground to push for russia round 1, the other half do sea lion bluff.

For me it really depends on my mood / what the axis does.
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I don’t see what making the British beg for mercy has to do with anything. The round London goes is the round Russia parks in romania. +9 in NOs  (sometimes a mech takes finland for +3 more).

Egypt is italy on round 2 if UK lost too much air units in the opener.

I welcome the sea lion. I like having a strong russia.  Game is 10x easier to play. half income for japan other half for europe. when you start pushing ruskies out of romania… uk is soon to be liberated. It works out pretty good.

I do the Sea Lion when I do the India Crush the same round.  Then there are no British capitols.  Sure, you CAN liberate London on round 13, but that’s a Russia with literally NO help in the way of blockers.  Ignore China and go the southern route - it can hurt to lose the last Chinese territories, but you can always get those back once Moscow falls.

??? this is 3.9…

india don’t drop round 3 no more, because india is strong enough to hold burma round 2 and block naval from dropping on india…

London can hold out till round 4 as well.

… mech ruskies can stay in romania for 3-5 rounds depending on casualties from london. sometimes make a run for rome if italy is doing africa.

G4 london = axis lose. G3 london fail = axis lose. g3 london win = axis win some or lose some. Mechanized russia can hold romania pretty damn long. G1 naval buy = R1 6 art rest mech G2 moar naval buy = R2 mech/tank and stack up near german borders G3 london fall = R3 attack 3-4 german spots and hold romania.

Sea lion aint what it used to be. 5 aa guns is a huge difference along with the added two units, germany should lose most his armor.

Cow, why does India not fall in round 3?

The rest of your post was unintelligible.

I just explained why india does not fall on round 3.

Airbase in kwangsi still requires you to hold yunnan or siam for landing. Smart players don’t die till round 4.
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My last post made perfect sense. G3 you take london R3 russians attack.  Transports aren’t real units, they don’t defend themselves, usa liberates UK 4-7 rounds.

The more germany invests into holding london or countering usa naval or in a possible take back UK attack…. The longer ruskies hold up in romania.

Took russia to rome once… it was awesome.

Sea lion ain’t what it used to be. Take too many casualties and russians take rome.

Everytime Russia sees a naval purchase from germany on round 1 and round 2. russia should buy much. Pushing for rome is not hard, you can even land USA on your stack if you need to. (germany can’t kill it and defend germany at the same time, which is why the push for rome is so awesome).

Oh you mean Shan State.

You bring up a good point, that UK should take back Yunnan and Shan State to delay Japan’s attack.
One thing to watch out for is a Japanese air strike on your burma stack, which becomes a J3 invasion of Calcutta that you can’t really stop.  But yes good point.

you right shan state. Not sure why I said siam.

Cannot do J2 burma. get blocked in malaya. Japan can use all his air if he wants to… Odds are what? 50/50 typically. If you pulled all your air in range you get 99% odds and use all 21 air units. You will have 11-13 left. That is fine.

Considering all india usually gets to kill is 2-4 air units fighting on india… getting to kill 8 air units instead is much better.

UK PAC still makes 23 and drops 7 inf (going to assume Japan 2 DOW)

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If it really bothers you, UK pac can just buy mechanized infantry on india round 1. Round 2 nothing can take burma if you use 1 destroyer to block, hit siam and yunnan up and that’s it. you lose india round 4 instead of 3.

Also the USA bomber buy prevents any possibility of losing both london and calcutta on the same round.  Japan DOW round 2 = bombers in london = germany has no chance of taking UK.

In previous editions the USA bomber buy just increased germany casualties (which is what the 5 aa guns on UK does currently)… now it actually makes UK survive another round… which makes russia so highpowered in comparison to germany after.

cmd jen, your game play still has not evolved. you are still doing sea lion and calcutta round 3, which allies can counter through different means… which is why you complained about axis being too weak.

The map is so much better now, there is a good variety of things both the axis and allies can do.

LOL.

It is true though, when the newer version of +3 hit, Jen was raging about axis being underpowered.

Her axis still did not evolve. Nothing wrong with sea lion bluff and following through when it can work, but most of your games will be just that, a sea lion bluff, UK does not need to fly every available unit in like before, just needs to keep 4 fighters in it and that is it (since she does 109 instead 110, the medit fleet and that fleet can merge in 92 instead of sinking 97).

Calcutta, makes 21 income when japan waits for round 2 DOW. daz pretty good. You can do india round 3, but it forces japan to skip dutch islands to hold shan state now. Then when you do smack india, japan loses so much air.

If I am rushing for calcutta, I am going to do Japan 1 DOW. Take it down on round 4 (severely limit income to UK pac, prevent anzac fighters from flying in, and  you get a fully loaded 6 transport drop).
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this is why jen is getting screwed. she still does 109 over 110,  so italy has to deal with that much more stuff. sea lion on G3 won’t work.

Calcutta round 3 leads to more losses now and it delays dutch islands at the same time.

This is why Jen plays the older version instead of the newer one and always plays axis. In that version I usually took allies with +4 inf on uk.

@Cow:

cmd jen, your game play still has not evolved. you are still doing sea lion and calcutta round 3, which allies can counter through different means… which is why you complained about axis being too weak.

The map is so much better now, there is a good variety of things both the axis and allies can do.

In regards to the former:  I feel that any allied attempt to negate the fall of the United Kingdom leaves the Allies in very great disarray while setting up the attacks on both India and England do not harm the Axis in the least. (Yes, even the airbase is greatly appreciated for the Calcutta attack, as it gives you a lot more range with those fighters in the Pacific and in China.)

In regards to the latter: I have not really looked at the new map.  Has Larry made it official?  Has Larry even tested it?  My impression was Larry was washing his hands of the whole deal and was going to pretend he never made the 1940 game.

@Cow:

It is true though, when the newer version of +3 hit, Jen was raging about axis being underpowered.

You got the wrong version.  I said in +2 the Axis were incredibly under-powered and I still maintain that the Axis in 2nd version of Alpha need a 24 IPC bid to achieve parity.

Her axis still did not evolve. Nothing wrong with sea lion bluff and following through when it can work, but most of your games will be just that, a sea lion bluff, UK does not need to fly every available unit in like before, just needs to keep 4 fighters in it and that is it (since she does 109 instead 110, the medit fleet and that fleet can merge in 92 instead of sinking 97).

In most of my games I win with the Axis in version 3 of Alpha due to the fact that India and England will fall every round unless the allies ditch every other position on the board (save USA Coast) to stop it - in which case, the Axis can walk all over the map.

Calcutta, makes 21 income when japan waits for round 2 DOW. daz pretty good. You can do india round 3, but it forces japan to skip dutch islands to hold shan state now. Then when you do smack india, japan loses so much air.

IF grandma grew testicles, would she be grandpa?  I fail to see the relavance of if statements.  No, Japan does not have to skip anything, a NB and AB in Southern China gives Japan the option of the WHOLE DEI on round 3 AND landings in Australia, the AB gives plenty of cover fire.  India is cocooned out of the way, Australia’s castraded if they move their fighters over, and America’s a paper tiger since they had to dedicate everything to Japan (which means literally nothing to liberate England with, which still cannot be defended in Alpha 3.)

If I am rushing for calcutta, I am going to do Japan 1 DOW. Take it down on round 4 (severely limit income to UK pac, prevent anzac fighters from flying in, and  you get a fully loaded 6 transport drop).
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Thank you!  Now I can attack with impunity and America cannot do squat.  This is the route I LOVE to see the Allies take!  I salivate at the thought of the Allies cutting their own throats by DOWing Japan on round 1!!!  Oh hellz ya, you just KNOW my Japanese tanks are going to be rolling into the Caucasus on Round 8!

this is why jen is getting screwed. she still does 109 over 110,  so italy has to deal with that much more stuff. sea lion on G3 won’t work.

I dont need SZ 110.  I’d rather England have NO CHANCE to defend itself, than a slightly decent shot at it.  I have NEVER seen Sea Lion fail in Alpha 3 (pre-Krieghund of course) and at worst saw the Germans win with all but 2 planes and with only one armor left.  Even still, that game rocked since Calcutta also fell HARD leaving the Japanese and Germans without any England to worry about.

Calcutta round 3 leads to more losses now and it delays dutch islands at the same time.
If you land in Calcutta because the allies were smart enough not to take the bait, then yes, you have a 1 round delay on the DEI.  That’s okay, I have India which means there is no threat in the SE Asian area AND an NO.  A worthy trade to say the least.

This is why Jen plays the older version instead of the newer one and always plays axis. In that version I usually took allies with +4 inf on uk.
I play the older version because I dont have the newer version.  However, without England Crush, I don’t think there’s a chance for the Axis to win.  Perhaps Krieghund moved things in such a way as to even things out while still keeping England alive.  I don’t know.  However, I will adamantly state that it is clear, beyond any illusion of a doubt that England crush works everytime either by costing the allies position or by crushing England.

In most of my games I win with the Axis in version 3 of Alpha due to the fact that India and England will fall every round unless the allies ditch every other position on the board (save USA Coast) to stop it - in which case, the Axis can walk all over the map.

version 3 or 3.9? if you are playing 3.9 usa buys bombers and flies them into london just like in version 3, except those bombers make your odds at taking london pretty bad (not to mention only bombers and industrial bomb uk which makes 35 so you need to do more than 5 damage to kill an infantry).

So either you delay japan from war or you take uk. you can’t do both and if you do, you need luck to take UK and if you take uk you will only have a few air units and a tank left. Russia will be a huge problem and can even push to rome.
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anyway jen, play the newer version. The older version is irrelevant because when LH prints the new board and sells it, no one will play the older version of +3

in the older version the bombers in london just made your casualties into what it is now without usa bombers. Except in the older version russia got +6 for each german spot.

So russia could make a legit push and make lots of money. the rome push depended on your casualties in taking london.

However I don’t see any reason to play the older version of +3 so why bother talking about it? when everyone else is talking about 3.9? when people talk about +3 they are talking about 3.9 because the older version is posted on dead threads.

why you are not playing the newer version is beyond me. 1) there is OOB and everything inbetween to 3.9… picking one of the ones in the middle as the version you prefer, is like saying, I want to play a version that was not printed and will not be printed and is imbalanced. Playing OOB is understandable because it was printed. It’s like playing super old classic the very original one, we all know allies are the favorite to win that, but you are playing the board as it was printed at least.

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this is why I dislike you, because you are bad and you talk about irrelevant things. it is great that you always win as axis because taking UK and Calcutta was so easy, still got all your tanks and air, no problem.

The older version was not fun, because the same thing happened every game. Except for those rare dice games where france defends itself and germany gets diced in taking UK or russia all ins on berlin and dices you.

Yes we all know the only chance allies have in that game was russia pushing for rome or berlin. we get it.

this thread is about AA guns, it is obviously a 3.9 thread, the aa guns are cannon fodder.

Cow and Jenifer, you are both correct.

There are no changes to the map going from alpha 2 to alpha 3 (or the final tweak that some people call 3.9).  A few units were added to UK and some ships were moved around.  Everyone and his/her dog had input into the changes over at the Harris site (see “Sea lion in alpha 3” thread).  After every imaginable scenarios was looked at with tonnes of odds calculations and some very insightful and clever ideas, the consensus was that the best all-out sea lion G1 consists of basically what people like corriganbp had in mind originally:

Build carrier and 2 transports OR save $30
sink transports and convoy raid z106 and z109
sink battleship and cruisers in z110 (especially the french cruiser!)
Kill France, Normandy, Yugoslavia; activate Finland and Bulgaria

the best all-out London defense consists of:
do not scramble or intercept
build infantry
get your planes home
leave Italy alone
use the mech to activate Ireland as a possible landing spot for US airstrike on German fleet (carriers in z102; bombers in Eastern USA)

Given those two best case scenarios, London falls 2 out of every 3 tries.  Afterward, Russia cleans up in Eastern Europe but that only lasts a few rounds.