I really respect the reasons Americans in general don’t like signing onto these agreements. It makes sense to me.
These global governing bodies are a sham, and people should make every attempt to subvert them. Local governance is superior governance in general - that’s the bottom line.
You have checked the map of what China claims I hope? There are areas well over 1000 miles from China’s coastline and yet less than 100 miles from somebody else’s coastline that China claims. There is no logic to that. It’s not like they are basing it on a 200 mile limit from a contested island.
Ok, but you do know that America controls Samoa, and Guam and both of those places are well over 4,000 miles from the US coastline, and very close the the coast lines of other countries as well right? Under that logic the US would have to give up those territories as well as Hawaii which is over 2,000 miles from the the US mainland. There is also the British position in the Falkland islands as well to think about.
Or we could sit back and let a bully take and say “……peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. And now I recommend you to go home and sleep quietly in your beds.”
I’m sorry but as you yourself said earlier China is NOT Germany in 1938, China is a very different animal altogether and the global conditions and geo-political setting is a far cry from that of the Munich agreement, it’s not a fair comparison in the least.
Honestly, all things aside, do you think what China is claiming is fair to others?
Honestly, I couldn’t care less about it, in reality the Chinese claiming these islands are nothing new as the KMT claimed it in 1947 and the PRC have done so since 1949. I find it interesting that when they originally made that claim Vietnam, then only North Vietnam, recognized and supported the Chinese claims but now have changed their tune. How is China’s claim any different from the claims of Indonesia or the Vietnam? The truth is they aren’t, but because China has the economic, military, and diplomatic ability to assert their claims (finally) people get all bent out of shape. I think that this is an issue that is best left alone by the Western world and it should be left to those in that area.
Honestly, I couldn’t care less about it
I can see that.
A slow moving story. Good for peace and diplomacy!
The following article moves us up to date on the conflicting territorial claims. I still find it surreal how China is claiming territory just miles away from the Malaysian coast.
Related to this thread…… things heat up between Japan and China
Another territorial dispute this time with Japan is starting to heat up. I’m not sure how these two are going to iron this out, it seems both parties are pretty far apart and citizens have taken so hardline stances.
Malachi I read about this this morning, -front page- of my home paper, and came here to update this thread…
Looks like you beat me already!
If the Japz and Chinese go to war, I’m going to enlist on behalf of the J’s.
These Island disputes with japan have been going on for ever since the end of WW2. This is nothing new or special and they tend to flair up every few years. Japan and Korea still have these diplomatic issues with both claiming Dokdo island and they occasionally erupt in clashes between Japanese and Korean fishing vessels. Japan and Taiwan also have similar disagreements over the rights to various islands and who can fish there, which again, flair up into violence sometimes. Its really not that big of a deal, and believe me its not that hard to get people in China calling for blood when it’s something involving Japan.
If the Japz and Chinese go to war, I’m going to enlist on behalf of the J’s.
That eager to get yourself killed?
I agree that these disputes have been going on since before the end of WW2. I’ve been following China closely since the Tienanmen square incident. What IS different is the strength of the Chinese position and the degree to which the Chinese leaders benefit from this. China’s growth of on average 10% GDP a year means there economy is about 1000% bigger than it was in 1989.
Clyde, did you read the article by chance?
China’s worst outbreak of anti-Japan sentiment in decades led to weekend demonstrations and violent attacks on well-known Japanese businesses such as car makers Toyota and Honda, forcing frightened Japanese into hiding and prompting Chinese state media to warn that trade relations could now be in jeopardy.
Worst in decades is something new in the last few decades. I’m no chicken little sir, but I do think this is a bit more heated than most borders.
Pfftp Clyde, I ain’t gonna die. I’m just going to matter. :P
Gentlemen.
The Communist Chinese have a manifesto that claims Tiawan, The Spratly Islands chain in the Phillippines and some Islands off of Vietnam. Those commies will go to war over them. The Japanese is trumping the Chinese in this by launching Destroyers named after WWII IJN Battleships that carry helicopters and several 100,000 Yen can be modified to handle fixed wing aircraft. 4 are almost fully operational. Next they will be building cruisers that are double in the size of thier new Destroyers. The new cruisers will look like full fledged fleet carriers! So Japan is preparing for a naval showdown with China and building a Blue water Navy to challange them.
China just launched its first carrier a former Soviet one that they re-commissioned, they claim it is for training only while they build a full size fleet carrier.
China will not give in to anyone else claims to any land or islands they want.
So the next hot spot THE EAST CHINA SEA OR THE SEA OF JAPAN NAMED DEPENDING ON IF YOU ARE JAPANESE OR CHINESE.
A billion chinamen vs 100 million Japanese.
Hmm…
Do the Japs still get 6 Kamikaze rolls?
They must be worth a few more men.
And if we sent them General/Admiral Cow we could press the merits of a J1 attack.
Surely as a board we should have some helpful tips for our favourite bad guys!
I admit, China’s power, along with the population and regime, scares me senseless.
This is what Chemical/Biological weapons are for.
The Japanese have -extensive- knowledge from their last encounter with the Chinese.
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying don’t be surprised when you see it happen.
I’m hoping the US has some Machiavellian scheme in progress. Trade some jobs and wealth to move China from a nuclear armed nation in 1970 that nobody could have leverage against to a nation it is today wholly reliant on making their middle class happy with modern trinkets based on imported raw materials. In the 70s most Chinese were too busy trying to stay alive so really what could be done against China other than nuke them and take a few nukes back from the meager arsenal of Chinese ICBMs (100 nukes in total?). Now an easy to enforce naval blockade would change things on the ground in China. The question, what will that change bring?
Japan and China trade barbs at the UN. Japan drops the “Your mamma” bomb, the Chinese ambassador had to be held back by the North Korean ambassador! Well not quite but Japan did drop the “Under international law it’s ours so nah nah. Since it’s ours there is NO dispute to talk about!”
Thanks MrMalachiCrunch.
I do not keep up enough with current affairs.
My head is firmly buried in History.
I find China to be a fascinating topic. I’ve spent most of my life in Canada 20 miles from the US border. Growing up next to a giant I think it will be interesting to watch how that giant reacts when it realizes there is another giant in the same room. One can only hope the new giant will be as relatively friendly as the old giant is now.
The US has a history of not wanting to be shackled by international law hence it has yet to sign onto the UN international law of the sea. Should that same choice be afforded to China? I for one would like to see the rule of law apply everywhere and wars between nations become a thing of the past. Now for the details, ah the devil in the details!
I would also like to see these laws applied to labour standards so China loses some of its competitive advantages due to brutal working conditions and state manipulation.
This segues into a discussion in my facebook group about bringing jobs back to North America. An interesting article on that:
I agree. I am disgusted by how many items are Chinese. Things we in England or Italy used to make. It is all to do with economics and we are disadvantaged for the reason you gave.
For ease and cost cutting I have bought Chinese, but do hate myself for it.
Wish our government could subsidise locally made products to make them competitive, but I suppose that would be morally wrong and against some badly thought up international law!
