KJF (Kill Japan First) doesn't work against against good Axis players

T6 is an exageration. This is a little quick. I believe Russia can hold out longer than this if played correctly.

@theROCmonster:

What were you purchasing with US and what was Japan purchasing? What was the major battle and how did japan come out with so many ships left?

OK the game is a few weeks back and on GTO, so forgive me if my memory fails sometimes.

USSR took West Russia but with losses. USSR strafed Ukraine leaving only the fig. This means 6 armor was available in cauc after USSR1.

G recaptured West Russia but only with few units since they used their airpower for SZ2 and UK cruiser also. Egypt was captured with only 1 armor.

G bought inf + bomber expecting a “fortress of Europe” like scenario.

Allied decided to go KJF UK1, when they bought an IC for India. And hitting FIC

US initial buy was 2 ICs since Japan failed taking China - given the oppurtunity again, I would not have bought the 2nd IC, since it was difficult to maintain control of China all the time.

Africa:
Allied made sacrificial landings in Africa UK1+US1 and cleared Africa with these units - I think  placed some air maybe a US bomber on Gibraltar, and G used their G2 landing to take that out instead of reinforcing Africa.
UK killed the med fleet UK2.

Japan skipped SZ52 and bought 2 transporters and a destroyer.

I think tha naval battle was in round 5 and it was someting like:
US 6 figs, 1 bomber, 2 subs 2 dstr, 1 AC, 1 BB against Japans: 4 figs, 1 sub, 1 dstr,  1 cruiser, 1 AC, and 2 BBs.

First round dice was a disaster for US making 3 hits I think - the battleship 2 hit rule
really punishes a weak first round - retreat was not an option since Japan then would be able to counter with a lot more air units - so it went to the end with UK attempting a lucky punch afterwards (1 sub 2 figs 1 bmbr)- but that was suicide - so game over, but interesting game :)I

The main problem I see here is that you lost West russia. This seriously cripples russia early on. Making it much easier for Germany to take on russia full bore. If I see west russia really weak and able to be captured I purchase 10 inf and 2 tanks T1 and never let up the gas on russia. In these games you really can’t go Japan first.

I partly agree - if USSR1 and G1 does not go well for the allies, the KJF strategy is much too slow to work against an effective German opponent.

But in this particular game Germany paid a high price for capturing West Russia, meaning that almost all their initial eastern based ground units where destroyed USSR2. Since the USSR armor survived the Ukraine attack USSR was able to retake and hold West Russia USSR2.

USSR was actually doing quite well in this game and could probably hold 3 rounds more before losing Moscow.

The problem was that the US lost the main battle in the pacific - so maybe I made a mistake by taking this 70% chance of success naval battle.

@jiman79:

But in this particular game Germany paid a high price for capturing West Russia, meaning that almost all their initial eastern based ground units where destroyed USSR2.

I have the opposite opinion regarding that situation. Here’s a few figures:
Assuming that Russia attacked WRus with 9 inf, 1 art, 1 arm and that the Germans countered with all the ground units that could reach WRus plus planes then the balance of losses would be 12 inf, 1 (or 2) art and 1 arm for the Russians 45 IPCs total (ground units only). Germany would have lost 9 inf, 1 art and 3 arm or 46 IPCs. Add to those figures the l 7 IPC income not gained for Russia (3 from Ukr on R1, 4 from Karelia and Belo on R2) and Germany is the one coming out stronger, not Russia.
A typical R1 WRus + Ukr attack should give the Russians on average an advantage of 12 IPC in losses over the Germans. Losing WRus on G2 completely reverses Russia’s initial gains and gives the advantage to the Germans, as I’ll explain next.

Since the USSR armor survived the Ukraine attack USSR was able to retake and hold West Russia USSR2.

Only if Germany allows Russia. During G1 non-combat Germany can move 7 inf to Karelia plus 5 armor + planes all ready to hit WRus on G2 and 2 inf for Ukraine. Assuming Russia buys 3 inf, 3 arm, it would start R2 with 9 inf and 6 arm but would have to divert at least 3 inf, 2 on Ukr, 1 moving to Archangel, so the Russian force on WRus at the beginning of G2 should be 5 inf, 6 arm. So, Germans could have hit WRus again on G2 and stack Ukraine. Russia would be now completely worn off - the only forces available are from new production since there’s no reserves and it is being tied up.
Even with a KGF in progress that’s at least 3 rounds that the Germans have in full control of Europe and wearing down the Russians for the Japanese advance. Trying pulling off a KJF and Russia is dead in the water a couple rounds later.

Well said hobbes. Thanks for putting those figures out there. Don’t have the patience to think of all that extranious stuff and type it down :).

@theROCmonster:

Well said hobbes. Thanks for putting those figures out there. Don’t have the patience to think of all that extranious stuff and type it down :).

Doing the math for the Case Blue strategy convinced me that a G1 counterattack on WRus is probably the biggest opportunity available for Germany. If it is likely that Germany will try to perform such an attack, then the Allies should seriously abandon any attempts of KJF.
Just the above calculations for the R2 retake of West Russia require that all infantry on Evenki/Novo/Kazakh are send towards Russia/Caucasus on R1. The more Russian units are send to Sinkiang/Yakut, the less there are for the WRus counterattack and to defend from the German attack on G1.

Why I always do west russia battle first. If I win in Ukraine and take west russia with loss of 3 inf or less I might entertain the idea of putting 4 units in sinkiang and 6 in bury. I retreat my units in any other instance. If say I attack ukraine and retreat to save my 3 tanks and sometimes my artillery I will retreat my units to russia and my men in the east back to moscow. making an attack on west russia not worth it.

@Hobbes:

Only if Germany allows Russia. During G1 non-combat Germany can move 7 inf to Karelia plus 5 armor + planes all ready to hit WRus on G2 and 2 inf for Ukraine.

There was still one UK transport alive, which meant Germany kept 3 inf in Norway to protect its bomber+fig after the sz2 attack.
Also he moved one armor to Africa so only 4 armor in eastern europe.
The German player was probably expecting a "fortress europe scenario and chose to protect his figs in western europe also.
So Karelia was not stacked on G1.

I think I strafed or recaptured Karelia  on R2 and first on G3 when the G1 inf buy marched into Karelia. Russia then started deadzoning western Russia.

This is basically how the game went, but I am not claiming the KJF was the best choice of strategy, far from - I usually win against this friend who I play regularly. I just wanted to try something different  :-D

@jiman79:

@Hobbes:

Only if Germany allows Russia. During G1 non-combat Germany can move 7 inf to Karelia plus 5 armor + planes all ready to hit WRus on G2 and 2 inf for Ukraine.

There was still one UK transport alive, which meant Germany kept 3 inf in Norway to protect its bomber+fig after the sz2 attack.
Also he moved one armor to Africa so only 4 armor in eastern europe.
The German player was probably expecting a "fortress europe scenario and chose to protect his figs in western europe also.
So Karelia was not stacked on G1.

I think I strafed or recaptured Karelia  on R2 and first on G3 when the G1 inf buy marched into Karelia. Russia then started deadzoning western Russia.

This is basically how the game went, but I am not claiming the KJF was the best choice of strategy, far from - I usually win against this friend who I play regularly. I just wanted to try something different  :-D

Yeah, I was kinda describing more the way I’d play. With the Karelia stack on G1 you don’t attack SZ2 since you’ll need the planes for the WRus attack in any case.

ok but with the UK battleship left unharmed I would definately not go KJF. Then it is all about getting some boots towards Russia ASAP.