Coastal Guns

AA rolls against Strategic Bombing raids:

Since AA never brought down all planes in a bombing raid, but could seriously impact the accuracy, AA defensive roll from air bases, naval bases, and industrial complexes is changed as follows: 1 = -3 on damage from air raid, with another roll to get a 1 for kill; 2 = -2 on damage roll, plus kill die; 3 = -1 on damage, plus kill die, 4 = +0 on damage; 5 = +1 on damage; 6 = +2 on damage.

The comparison math on this would be… if you had 12 bombers attacking, using 12 avg dice rolls,
under normal rules, 2 bombers would be lost, with 55 damage points against targets.  Under these rules, there would 1 bomber lost, but just 36 damage points against targets.

@CWO:

Just to toss an extra factor into this discussion, one should remember that (in real life) deploying a defensive minefield around a port isn’t consequence-free for the defender.  Such minefields help protect the port from penetration by enemy ships, but they also impair the port’s capacity to handle friendly ships because they have to waste time picking their way through the minefields, something which requires good minefield charts, slow speeds and careful navigation by the harbour pilots.

You are completely right about this, but as it is ports have no restrictions on use. A naval base could service 100 carriers as easily as a single submarine. Unless youre suggesting that friendly ships should roll for mines, I am not sure that this is practical. Perhaps the conversion of a peacetime harbor to a mine-infested, artillery-ridden military base should come with a restiction on the number of ships that can use its facilities a turn. Maybe 8? That begs the inclusion of a smaller piece (port? harbor?) that has the same capabilities of the naval base, but on a smaller scale, and with less cost.

@Young:

@Buran:

I was thinking of somethings similar but would either use an AA gun style attack with 1 die @1 for every ship, up to 3 ships. But I’m not a big fan of this, I was thinking of a more decided unit. Either using the bunkers from Battle of the Bulge, or the new coastal guns the HBG is working on. With these new options then I think that your idea would of a 1 die @3 would work better.

1. I like the idea of a separate unit from HBG (same mold and colour for all).

2. I would put them at $6 each with zero movement and are destroyed upon capture

3. How about making them just like AA guns, multiple guns allowed on one territory, 3@1 per gun, up to the total number of enemy surface warships in the sea zone from which the amphibious assault is coming from, for one round only.

4. In this system, do you think they can be used as casualties?… for $6, I would think so. Should the setup include any?

That’s a better idea. I wasn’t sure how much you would be into HBG units though. Some guys don’t like them. I will probably make some with my craft supplies I just haven’t got around to it.

Possible to add a 6th option ?

hear me out…

AA guns can never attack.

On defense AA participates in every round of combat (as any normal unit currently does). Rolling one dice per AA gun hitting on 1 (2 if radar is researched) however (and obviously) AA guns can only hit aircraft and defender will choose the casualty’s. Attacking aircraft hit by AA guns are moved to the casualty zone just as if they were hit by any other unit. OR Attacking aircraft hit by AA guns are immediately removed from battle and do not return fire. OR Attacking aircraft hit by AA guns are immediately removed from battle ON THE FIRST ROUND ONLY. Subsequent rounds attacking aircraft hit by AA will be moved to casualty zone and return fire.

I really have never understood A&A anti aircraft rules… in a real battle the aa guns are not going to just stop shooting after a couple minutes lol that makes no sense. Like the AA gun operator gets bored because the crappy gun can never score a hit anyhow and he falls asleep… :P

if not i vote for option #4

Transports move very slowly. They are prey to subs and planes. They don’t escape unless the enemy runs out of bullets.

I think you don’t like them as fodder in combat, but its insane to bring them in combat only to lose them deliberately and keep your warships perfectly undamaged.

This is a big change that i have always welcomed and wanted for years before.

Aircraft Carriers can be outfitted with technology to have AA Guns that fire just like ground based AA Guns.  Only one per sea zone may fire, but it may fire at each attacking enemy aircraft.

CV was a poor defender for anti-aircraft. They relied on CAP to intercept incoming planes at lower altitude to intercept these and drive them away from the fleet. The Carrier created an umbrella of air cover to protect in this manner. It could not stand up to much of a fight and was the weakest in terms of AA capabilities in WW2.

IN modern times this changed but not in ww2. At midway 3 Japanese carriers were sitting ducks because the air cover was lost fighting off waves of incoming torpedo-bombers, and the carriers had the best Japanese equipment money could buy and it didn’t mean a thing because they were unescorted by cruisers and enough supporting ships.

A BB was a slower moving ship and was meant not to engage fighters but to engage surface ships and having the slower speed could only hope to surprise the enemy from nowhere or fight on equal terms against other battleships. Cruisers were some of the fastest ships and much better suited to fight airplanes by escorting fast carriers that were vulnerable.

The only thing the BB should have is a first strike attack against other surface warships.

Cruisers should move 3 with carriers and have a AA gun at planes hitting at 1 on the first round.

@B.:

Search roll sounds too complicated, why not just stick to the one die roll for each aircraft and hit on a die roll of 1.

The OOB rule of one die per enemy aircraft is massively unrealistic. It had to go!
Damage proportional to size of enemy air force ?!?!

The AA ability should be built-in for all ICs and only aply for SBRs! Maybe the cost for an IC should be raised?

Yeah we have AA built-in for all ICs in phase 1.
As for applying only for SBR…that depends on which way you think of it. Conventional combat can occur near factories. Those factories’ AA can still fire.

I would love this rule because it would also allow me to use my AA guns more effectively in my AA gun/ artillery house rule.