Does Sealion break the Game(Europe Only)

I repeat:

Don’t need to block.

UK
3 fht, 1 tac, 1 DD, 1 CV

vs

Germany
1 sb, 1 CR, 1 CV, 1 dmg BB, 2 fht

UK loses that battle 70%

My TTs won’t be built in sz113, they will be built in sz112 with my fleet.  And they won’t be there until end of G2.

Unless you got pretty lucky and wiped out my fleet in sz112 (and you need pretty good luck, as you need to survive with a unit, which is 15%), then sealion just jumped in the odds for the Germans to 99%.

Building a CV and landing your planes on it in sz110.  Interesting.  Would work only if I survived with less than the average number of planes in G1.  And if that happened, I’m not doing Sealion anyway.  If I do have my average number of planes, then I have:

surviving sb (if any) 1 CR, 1 dmg BB, 1 CV, 2 fht, 2 tac, 1 bmb vs 1 DD, 2 CV, 3 fht, 1 tac

Since you need to win with a unit, you’ll lose this 80%, and I now need fewer TTs and units to bother with London now.  I could build more sb, fht or whatever.

My TTs can be in whatever sea zone I feel like, as there will be no unit to block.

Be back in a couple days

(A bit of a double post, but since there’s two threads about this topic I thought I’d post it in both threads)

UK counter, version 1

UK1 builds: 2x Tactical Bomber
UK1 attacks: none concerning operation Sealion
UK1 moves: tactical bomber from carrier to the UK, Gibralter fleet remains stationary
UK1 placements: 2x tactical bomber in the UK

UK2 attacks: Gibraltar fleet + UK air-force attack SZ112

The battle!

UK: carrier + destroyer + 3x fighter + 3x tactical bomber

Versus

Germany: submarine + carrier + cruiser + tactical bomber + fighter + battleship

Round 1: UK scores 23 pips = 4 hits v. Germany scores 17 pips = 3 hits
Losses: UK carrier + destroyer v. German submarine + cruiser + 2 damaged capital ships

Round 2: UK scores 21 pips = 3 hits v. Germany scores 13 pips = 2 hits
Losses: UK fighter + tactical bomber v. German carrier + fighter + tactical bomber

Round 3: UK scores 14 pips = 2 hits v. Germany scores 4 pips = 1 hit
Losses: UK tactical bomber v. German battleship … all transports are sunk as well

Alternatively Germany can pull back the fleet to SZ113, but that allows the UK to place an easy block to delay Sealion for at least one extra turn … opening the way for more possible UK and/or US intervention and unchecked Soviet aggression in the East.

Germany can also move the cruiser to block in SZ 104 to keep the Gibraltar fleet out of it. The UK air-force can still attack the German fleet and will still win, but with more losses as well.

:evil:

the game is not broken with Sealion. Larry himself said that he built it into the game–you guys are chasing a ghost. There is absolutely zero assurance that taking over the UK gives the Axis an auto-win. Go ahead and build eleven transports for two turns and watch Stalin smile. Puny Italy has no chance agains the US in Africa. There is still enough material in Africa to check the dagos before the US butts in. Russia will become the historical colossus. This is all just “mental masturbation”–who Can-Try-To-Find-A-Flaw and run apeshit with it.

Latro, my first thought was to have UK buy air units UK1 too (have done it). You can also have UK build a sub w/two tacs UK1 (28 ipc’s). Germany can’t kill the sub, and it will increase your odds in the sz 112 sea battle if Germany stays. I think Germany may just drop in another carrier G2 though, so could still stay in SZ112, but would buy fewer tpt’s. Then you have to decided to roll the dice in the sea battle, or do inf buy UK2 and let him storm the beaches G3 w/fewer ground units.

Good post none the less  :-D

If the AA gun does not kill a plane on a G2 sealion and if you also block with cruiser in SZ 104 and you will all the battles, the UK player can only get 11 Infantry and 4 planes defense. ( builds 9 men, has 2 at start, plus 3 fighters 1 tactical)

The odds of this battle if the above all occur to win for Germany is over 50%.

If AA gun hits, it goes down to about 42%

bump

@pusfilledwart:

the game is not broken with Sealion. Larry himself said that he built it into the game–you guys are chasing a ghost. There is absolutely zero assurance that taking over the UK gives the Axis an auto-win. Go ahead and build eleven transports for two turns and watch Stalin smile. Puny Italy has no chance agains the US in Africa. There is still enough material in Africa to check the dagos before the US butts in. Russia will become the historical colossus. This is all just “mental masturbation”–who Can-Try-To-Find-A-Flaw and run apeshit with it.

to be fair there IS a precedent in this franchise of there being such a flaw…. :)

to be fair there IS a precedent in this franchise of there being such a flaw…. Smiley

That would be AAE original and AAP40?

… and AA Pacific, and Bulge.

I thought D-Day tended to have pretty predictable outcomes.

I liked D-Day the best.

I found that if I advanced along a broad front in Bulge, I only needed to get to the middle of the board and I had my 24 points before the allies started using their planes.

Maybe I didn’t give the game enough of a chance.

Original – huge allied advantage

Europe – german advantage

Pacific – Japanese (I have heard)

Revised -  allied advantage

d-day – huge german advantage even with larry’s post release “fixes”

bulge – I have not played it

Guadalcanal – balanced. This game is awesome, I am surprised more people do not play it and discuss it

50th Anniversary – 4 scenarios (1941, 1942, with or without national objectives) all unbalanced

Spring 42 – balanced. This is a great update of revised.

Pac40 – japan has huge advantage

Euro40 – I have not played it

Global40 – I have only played it a few times but it seems to favour the allies. Despite germany being able to threaten early sealion, which forcing uk into same reaction everygame (boring) it seems the allies still have a huge advantage. Granted this is from a small sample of games.

I know when AA Europe was being played back on Don’s Axis & Allies forum (whatever happened to that site?) the bid was over $30 and rising.  I remember Hartman was at the top of the ladder and was still beating members as Germany even w/ $30 +.

Pacific over at Days of Infamy was bid w/ Victory points, not money.  They were bidding b/n 26 and 27 VPs, if I remember right.

I wasn’t playing online at the time, but I do remember the bids being rediculoulsy high - and this Hartman guy and M&M cleaning up w/ the Germans.

On that forum, the way that a ladder worked, you either gained points for winning a game, or lost points.  How many points you won or lost depended on the spread b/n the 2 players.  If 1 player had alot of points played a newbie with no points, the higher player had lots at stake as he could lose the difference in points to the newbie.  The higher players tended to play higher players.  Newbies had to work theri way up to challenge the higher guys.

Hartman and M&M were in the 1 - 2 spots for a long time until the forum closed down, I think.

Days of Infamy worked the same way.