Has anyone given any thought to Cruisers?

Have you played with the NA Fast Carriers? If so, why would you call it a NA? In theory I get it, but it seems almost not practical useful at all as long as the navy cannot move along!

But thats for USA only. Japan had fast carriers too. And you would not want them moving outside of naval support> thats why we now have cruisers to follow them…

So the reasoning stands that they both should move 3 spaces, BB and DD go two and subs go one. if germany gets super subs which are type 21 walter uboats traveling on submerged at 15.9 knots … THEN they can move two. Subs could only travel about 8 knots while cruisers and carriers went 31-34 knots.

@Imperious:

But thats for USA only. Japan had fast carriers too. And you would not want them moving outside of naval support> thats why we now have cruisers to follow them…

So the reasoning stands that they both should move 3 spaces, BB and DD go two and subs go one. if germany gets super subs which are type 21 walter uboats traveling on submerged at 15.9 knots … THEN they can move two. Subs could only travel about 8 knots while cruisers and carriers went 31-34 knots.

A typical U.S. Navy submarine in World War II was a 300-ft (91-m) craft of 1,450 tons displacement and had a crew of 55. It ran on diesel engines (while surfaced) at a speed of up to 17 knots and on electric motors (while submerged) at a speed of up to 8 knots. The ship was armed with one 3-in. (7.6-cm) dual-purpose gun, several light automatic weapons, and 10 21-in. (53-cm) torpedo tubes.

Since aircraft can attack submarines anytime it seems reasonable to think that submarines are suposed to move surfaced, hence have a movement of 2 (not 1). My Supersubmarine technology includes that submarines may not be attacked by enemy aircraft when alone or in company with other submarines, unless an enemy ship (not just desroyers) is present. Don’t you think this sounds more reasonable?

I would like to know what kind of an impact fast (a movment of 3) carriers and cruisers would have to the game. Could you explain it to me? :D

AS you know that submarines were not allways sitting on the surface just sailing along. The enemy had high altitude planes looking arround on recon. The subs used their periscope when they entered hostile waters to look for prey. Plus they were tied to the land and simply didnt sail far from home. They waited for something to cross their path like some animal hiding under some brush ready to attack. Surface ships basically looking for a fight went right into harms way and engaged the enemy with guns ready to fire. So on the basis of the static method that subs fight and their comparative slower speeds they should move one. But again we are dealing with a game and its true that in 3-4 months any ship could go around the world… The relationships between combating ships should be maintained. The other (third) reason is so we end this idea that fleets of subs are replacing destroyers as the fodder for the game. Subs should have economic attack ability on say convoy boxes or factories in addition to surprise sinkings of merchant ships. I am thinking about giving each piece a unique value to the game so it had a justification to buy and not for the same reason as another piece. If subs get to move 2 spaces i feel that it brings too much value to this piece.
Now we will have people who want to buy 4 subs and one carrier as a fleet, rather than a carrier , cruiser, and 2 destroyers which looks more historical.

Since subs cannot fire at air units they are not as good as a transport in defens, not even a DD IMO.

As you said submariness used their periscope when they entered hostile waters to look for prey. That means in A&A terms that the movement was considerably reduced at that moment the submarine entered into a sea zone containing enemy ships, not before. So movment was 2. And don’t forgett about the submarines that were a part of a larger battle fleet. I will give you a short history of how the submarine was developed during the war.

The submarines in the Pacific
The interwar years, the submarine was little more than a coast defence weapon and woefully inadequate. The transformation in four short years was dramatic, with over 200 large fleet submarines in service in the US Navy by 1945. Although American boats often operated on the surface, later boats were cleared to dive to 450 feet and their hull strength stood them good when under attack.

Japan deployed squadrons of large submarines with the battle fleet and using midget submarines to attack the advancing US battle fleet. Some of these larger submarines were well designed to handle aircraft, but the concept itself proved to be misconceived. Some of these submarines carried aircraft.

The U-boats in the Atlantic
It was the aircraft that proved the great nuisance to surfaced U-boats. Even with radar, aircraft took while to develop the art of subamrine hunting, partly because Germans had a radio receiver that very effectively detected radar transmissions, enabling rapid avoiding action to be taken. By early 1943 shorter wavelengths confounded the German equipment and, for a space of three months, U-boat losses ran at an average of one per day.

Night-running on the surface, even to charge batteries, became prohibitively dangerous when aircraft received the 80-million candlepower Leigh Light, extra guns and improved depth charges with wich to mount sudden and unannounced onslaughts from the darkness.

The enemy survived bydeveloping the Schnorkel (snort), but slow, submerged transits, now occupied most boat’s endurance and even on station high surface speeds could not be used. Efficiency fell off rapidily.

Ultimately the Germans introduced the high-speed submarine in the Types XXI and XXIII. The former had a 16-kt submerged speed, under water control and advanced torpoes (the Zaunkönig acoustic torpedo, tuned to home in on the the enemys fast running propellers). These were the Super Submarines. Fortunately for the Allies these new boats was brought into service too late to have much impact.

submarine was little more than a coast defence weapon

IN fact many japanese, british, Italian, American submarines were little use than “coastal defense” the concept of long range subs was wholly used by Germany and Latter United States “Tambor” class was built with a 12,000 mile range (6,000 each way) “gato” class which were not even started until 1942 and finally “Balbao” class which followed in close sucession.

The diesel engines helped give the sub more range but still I dont see any substantial shipping loses from British and American subs (forget Soviet) that were far into enemy sea lanes. Only when the Island hopping campaign occured and that we actually took back the pacific oceans near japan did alot of merchant shipping get sunk. I hate in the game when i have to chase that british sub around in the pacific or when US player builds 4 subs and a carrier to hunt down battleships and destroyers. Something just does not feel right about this…

http://www.battlebelow.com/gato.htm