Can't Seem to Win as Allies,…Help!

[ThomasBMoore]

Mkay. So, my problem thus far is that I cannot win with the Allies. Myself and my stepbrother have made it our mission to win as the allies, and as such, always play them against the same two guys as the axis. We have come up with a lot of what I would consider good strategies, but they seem to be crippled by the axis’ production. For the purposes of our experiments, the axis plays the same strategy every time, allowing us to spend weeks theorizing and counting numbers. Here’s what has happened thus far:

The Axis Gold Standard - Note that these probably aren’t all the moves (I don’t play the axis), but you get the underlying strategy.
Germany T1 - Takes Egypt. Lands fighters all available fighters in Finland/Norway to prevent shuttling of troops. Takes the western province directly west of Archangel (Karillia? Can’t read it on the map I am looking at at the moment.) Purchases 8 tanks and places them in Berlin.
Japan T1 - Bombs Pearl Harbor. Takes China. Places IC in Indochina and Kuang.
Germany T2 - Retakes West Russia. Takes Archangel. Purchases 8 tanks in Berlin. Mobilizes into Africa.
Japan T2 - Purchases 6 tanks. No combat actions, I think

Stupid things that can go wrong and cause the allies to lose almost immediately (this happened in 2 consecutive games in 1 day)
Game 1 - Japan takes india on T1 because the destroyer failed to sink the transport near Kuang. Burned the IC.
Game 2 - Germany took UK on T2 because the aerial battle for the baltic failed, leaving a surviving transport that resulted in a victorious invasion.

Allies Theories that have Failed
One theory involved building a ton of battleships (2-3 total for UK in Baltic and 3-4 for USA in the medit) and loading a transport with 2 inf, unloading one at a time so that we could bombard at the cost of 1 inf every turn. This combined with strategic bombing could weaken the germans production, and also force him to substitute tanks for infantry to absorb casualties, allowing russia time to build huge infantry stacks. The problem with this strategy is that either we: 1)build IC’s in Singyiang and India. placing tanks there to stall the Japanese advance (which spreads our German resources thin), or we 2) Not build IC’s and let asia fall, allowing Japan to be knocking on Moscow on T5-6 or so. Either way, the plan takes so long to put into action that the axis has outproduced us.

What the Allies are trying tomorrow
Building a massive army of transports and staging an invasion of either Finland/Norway or Western Europe on T3, meanwhile building no asian IC’s and redirecting Russian troops to help stall the building of/burn some of Japan’s asian IC’s.

I will get back to you on how tomorrow’s strategy failed (because I think it will around T7). Note that I don’t use alternate rules, because I think the allies should be able to win without them. Also note that we don’t use tech rolls, because it is also unfair (if we did it, they would too…and Germany getting rockets is essentially game over since they can strategic bomb UK, Caucus, and Moscow). I think my next strategy is going to go back to building an IC in India and Singyiang, but basing it on the premise of a KJF strategy, driving them out of asia and island hopping a bit. I’m just worried that a KJF will allow Germany to become a monster (8 tanks per turn = ugliness).

[Nukchebi0]

How is the Axis outproducing you?

[newpaintbrush]

Your opponents are awful.  You should be CRUSH THEM with IRON FIST.  (deliberate mangling of grammar)

1A.  If your opponent REALLY stacked Norway, then he won’t be able to cover the sea zone west of Algeria.  Produce like 8 infantry to stop yourself from losing London, and unite the UK and US fleets west of Algeria.  This way, you get an early foothold in Africa.  You can also retake Anglo-Egypt with Indian transport, infantry from India, infantry from Trans-Jordan, and UK bomber, possibly UK fighter, but I advise using the UK fighter against either the Jap sub at Solomons or the Jap transport at Kwangtung.

1B.  If your opponent didn’t REALLY stack Norway, you can invade it, and trade infantry and tanks for fighters.  Produce an aircraft carrier to guard your navy against the German Baltic navy and land fighters, so you’ll have battleship, 2 transports, carrier, 2 fighters as defense; very possiby put a sub in the water for added protection.  The US should move to reinforce London in case of German invasion (if appropriate)

2.  Your opponent takes Karelia.  There is not a damn thing you can do about that.

3.  ICs in Indochina and Kwangtung are horribly expensive.  This pretty much forces Japan to do JTDTM (Japan Tank Dash To Moscow).  You can counter with a pretty standard infantry buy for the Russians, and either fortifyting Ssinkiang for a few turns, or falling back immediately.  Basically, Japan will need infantry fodder to protect their Japanese tanks.  Otherwise, you can attack with Russian infantry and fighters and force Japan to trade Japanese tanks for Russian infantry on around a 1 for 1 basis.  Not great for Japan.

4.  Kill that d*** Kwangtung transport.  Do not build an IC in India.  Frankly, you don’t need an IC in India, no matter what Japan does.  You can afford to let India fall.  What’s worth more, India or Africa?

5.  Dude, you lost UK because you didn’t reinforce with US.  Die, fool.

6.  Battleship fleets suck.  They take way too long to build, and are too easy to sink.

7.  Produce infantry with Russia.  If you’re really clever, infantry and tanks.  If Japan is kicking Russia’s ass right away, you are almost certanily doing something horribly wrong.

[ThomasBMoore]

When I say they are outproducing me, I mean in Europ and Eurasia. Which, Russia always purchases INF. 4 in Cauc, 4 in Moscow. Problem is, Russia is capable of buying as many infantry as Germany is capable of purchasing tanks. So, T1 Russia builds 8 inf, T2 builds 9, T3 builds 8, T4 builds 8, T5 builds 8 for a total of 41 inf, right? Mkay. In those same 5 turns, Germany has produced 40 tanks and Japan has produced 24. That leaves Russia with 82 constructed defense to fight against the axis’ 192 combined constructed offense. See how this gets ugly?

My plan for today is to either attack WEurope or Finland/Norway on T3, whichever is most opportune. My navy will consist of 6 transports, 1 russian sub, 1 US AC fully loaded with US fighters, 2 US destroyers, 1 UK Battleship. My invasion force will be 6 inf, 4 art, 2 armor, and what is left of my airforce after the battle for the baltic (hopefully 1 fighter and 1 bomber). Western Europe seems like the best idea, because USA is set to reinforce it on T3, denying Germany the opportunity for a successful counterattack on T4. On T4, UK (me) will place 8-9 inf in WEurope to reinforce. USA will remove all troops from WEurope and seige Finland/Norway, hopefully winning. If the US wins there, an IC will be built. Russia will begin a hardcore offensive on T4, because Germany will not be able to reinforce the West and the East simultaneously.

4. That Kwang tranny will die today. They can’t continue to roll 1’s forever.
5. UK was reinforced from US.
6. Impossible to sink! Germany woulnd’t dare send the Luftwaffe after 3 battleships, 2 destroyers, and a loaded carrier. He can’t rebuild his airforce if he is buying 8 tanks a turn. But agreed, it does take too long.
7. No tanks. INF only. The plan is to hold out long enough to get the allies there.

[DarthMaximus]

But all those tanks can’t reach Moscow instantly, esp if Japan’s IC’s are at Fic and or Kwa.  Anyway, that’s another story.

What do you do on Russia 1?

Here’s a conservative play:

Buy 5 inf, 1 rt, 1 arm
Attack Wrus with almost everything that can reach and move in the AA gun from mos for added defense.
Land ftrs in Cauc, non com 2 inf to Cauc from Kaz, move maybe 1-2 tanks (not involved in Wrus attack) to Cauc.  Retreat remaining inf out East 1 space West.  Place 3 inf, 1 rt in Cauc, rest inf to Mos.

Slightly more aggressive:

Attack Wrus and Ukr (with 3 inf, 1 rt, 2-3 arm , 2 ftrs)
In the Ukr attack if you bring in 2 arm you try to take, if you bring in 3 you do 2 rds of attack and retreat back to Cauc with arm and ftrs.
The goal:  to kill the Ger inf, rt and arm for only the cost of your inf, rt, while saving all your arm.

If Ger buys 8 arm, UK and US can immediately go to Alg on T1.  UK can counter Egy or Fortify about 4 inf in Per with an AA gun.

If UK does go to Alg, buy maybe 1-2 ftrs rest troops for UK.

US can buy AC and trn with troops for the Atlantic.

Land Allied ftrs in Wrus to help Russia when they get in range.

Germany should not have the inf to support their tanks, meaning when they get in range, strafe them with the Russian offensive power.  Trade you inf for his arm, then retreat to repeat the process again next turn.  Never lose your arm though.

If he keeps his armor back a territory to protect it, then trade the leading ter with minimal troops, maybe 2-3 inf and 2 ftrs to attack.

I would suggest buying at least 1-2 armor a turn with Russia.  Don’t forget they defend at 3.  And you don’t have to attack, but you can maintain at least the threat of attack due to the range and attacking power of tanks.

If you get Russia to about 7,8,9 tanks by rd 3 or 4, the Axis aren’t as likely to advance so quickly.

Also consider a 3 inf, 3 arm R1 buy, it is a bit more aggressive, but you instantly give yourself 7 armor and 2 ftrs to play with.

[newpaintbrush]

@ThomasBMoore:

When I say they are outproducing me, I mean in Europ and Eurasia. Which, Russia always purchases INF. 4 in Cauc, 4 in Moscow. Problem is, Russia is capable of buying as many infantry as Germany is capable of purchasing tanks. So, T1 Russia builds 8 inf, T2 builds 9, T3 builds 8, T4 builds 8, T5 builds 8 for a total of 41 inf, right? Mkay. In those same 5 turns, Germany has produced 40 tanks and Japan has produced 24. That leaves Russia with 82 constructed defense to fight against the axis’ 192 combined constructed offense. See how this gets ugly?

No.  The Allies should make it so Germany simply cannot afford to build 8 tanks a turn.  That means UK/US transports.  NOT battleships, but transports and infantry and fighters.  A few Allied tanks are good to have as well.

My plan for today is to either attack WEurope or Finland/Norway on T3, whichever is most opportune. My navy will consist of 6 transports, 1 russian sub, 1 US AC fully loaded with US fighters, 2 US destroyers, 1 UK Battleship. My invasion force will be 6 inf, 4 art, 2 armor, and what is left of my airforce after the battle for the baltic (hopefully 1 fighter and 1 bomber). Western Europe seems like the best idea, because USA is set to reinforce it on T3, denying Germany the opportunity for a successful counterattack on T4. On T4, UK (me) will place 8-9 inf in WEurope to reinforce. USA will remove all troops from WEurope and seige Finland/Norway, hopefully winning. If the US wins there, an IC will be built. Russia will begin a hardcore offensive on T4, because Germany will not be able to reinforce the West and the East simultaneously.

Norway should usually fall by T2, but T3 WEurope is way too early.  It doesn’t matter what you invade with, they will get their asses kicked.  Unless your opponent = noob, and can’t counter your attack.  One thing I’ll mention - don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched.  You can have this awesome plan about how you are going to take your shotgun and go around blasting demons, but if you don’t have any shotgun shells, and there aren’t any demons, you are going to have a problem.

4. That Kwang tranny will die today. They can’t continue to roll 1’s forever.

The Kwangtung transport is important enough I’ve seen the UK send its carrier and destroyer to get it, or the destroyer and fighter.

5. UK was reinforced from US.

Yey

6. Impossible to sink! Germany woulnd’t dare send the Luftwaffe after 3 battleships, 2 destroyers, and a loaded carrier. He can’t rebuild his airforce if he is buying 8 tanks a turn. But agreed, it does take too long.

That’s kind of the point, it takes too long.  Also, it’s not usually the Luftwaffe that poses a real threat to Allied navy.  It’s the Luftwaffe and the German navy.  If both hit, you lose your fleet, Germany keeps its air force, you have to rebuild from scratch, Germany doesn’t.  Anyways - forget the d*** battleships, build some transports.  If you are moving 6 infantry into Norway / Karelia / Eastern Europe a turn, that throws a big fat wrench into Germany’s plans.  If you run UK and US transport fleets, you can usually get as many as 14 infantry into Norway a turn.  Takes a long ass time to set up, but you can see how 14 inf a turn could cause problems for Germany.

7. No tanks. INF only. The plan is to hold out long enough to get the allies there.

OK.  You know your little sister?  Yeah, I mean your three year old sister.  And you know Mike Tyson?  Well, lemme tell ya, if Mike Tyson does nothing but block, your little sister can kick Mike Tyson’s ass.  Same thing.  If you build nothing but infantry, you can’t respond to Axis threats, and you have absolutely nothing to convince the Axis to stay the hell back.  I recommend building infantry and TANKS with Russia initially, switch to infantry and artillery when the Axis are knocking on the Allies’ door.

[Mork Far]

are you playing with N/A?

[ajgundam5]

The reason you may not be able to win is because you just posted your strategy for tomorrow!!

[Wazzup]

From what I can tell, you are playing with 8 VC and out of box rules, correct?

[Wazzup]

If you want, follow my league games for Allied.

I’ve only played allied there, as my bid doesn’t ever win.

My strategy stays pretty much the same.  No game is ever the same, but I believe in Russian Inf w/ about equal Tanks.  There is nothing worse than losing board position because you only have inf.

What makes armor great is that you can use them to halt Japan from advancing, then turn around and threaten Germany if they venture too far.

Germany is always worse as a giant, so I put my efforts to thwart their advances.

Against a very good Japan player, KJF is very tough.

I’ll admit, I’m tougher with Japan than Germany.  However, my overall axis play is OK, but I will only play them with a certain bid.

If you are losing to the axis with no bid, but 8 VC, then I understand.

[Cobert]

It sounds like an 8VC game if they lose when India falls.

As the allies, I usualy set up one big UK funnel into eastern europe, and with the US, I harass all of the mediterranean, and Russia builds infantry and a few artillery to prepare for a big breakout.  With the allies coming at all sides, Germany is bound to collapse at one point or another, usually when the US takes Southern Europe and when Russia reaches eastern europe to help the UK on the offensive.

That funnel into EEU really messs up germany, especially since it seems most german players use that route to move troops east.

Ive seen some strategies where the US just uses the existing eastern transports to move troops into africa or up to britain while they build a pacific fleet and hit japan where it hurts, but I dont like to spread out the US resources.  Japan really is a bitch when they get rolling though, 4 transports of troops each turn can be disheartening.

I once played a noob that got lucky with bad allied buys. He bought 2 bombers for the UK and US on their first turns, and the German economy collapsed.  The only reason I didnt disentigrate in the first few turns was because of my extra IPCS i got from having no resistance in africa.

[Nukchebi0]

About the bombers, if the U.S. and U.K. both bomb, they can kill 32 IPC’s of German income a turn. If the player is smart enough to secure Africa first, then Germany won’t be able to survive.

[Guest]

8 VC would be the problem… up it to 9, then have at it as the Allies against those Axis moves :-D

[newpaintbrush]

Where are you guys getting 8 VC from?

I can’t read!  :-D

[666]

Mr. Moore,

Don’t take this the wrong way but the Allies have a clear advantage, (thus the bidding system which is used to lessen the allies advantages) therefore your play must be extremely weak or inexperienced.

If you want to improve your play, I humbly recommend that you visit the game threads in either the league or the tourney and study the victories posted by allied players. This will assist you in your endeavor far more than following the thoughts posted in this thread.

Good luck and I hope to see you in the league someday.

[Wazzup]

@newpaintbrush:

Where are you guys getting 8 VC from?

I can’t read!   :-D

Thinking OOB ruleset and seemingly quick victories.