AARHE: Rule files

[Imperious Leader]

Oh one thing forgot:

dont forget to add that rule regarding the effects on builds for Factories that suffered SBR runs. This is effected by the IPC

so if the territory has a value of 3 and the total value in builds is x4= 12 IPC, and you bomb this factory for say 4, then you can now only build 8 IPC worth of units in that factory.

[tekkyy]

Yes something like this, including map items regarding the Maginot line, Oil symbols, etc.

yeah those 1939 specific items are going in the 1939 rules file

Yes saved at capital. You lose it only when you lose capital. good.

no I am saying thats what OOB does and is too restrictive
recall we have convoy rules

this is why you save at VCs, or if you want save at any territory
these are the options

what do they do? They also retreat! what kind of thing is this?  Thats totally ridiculous. its like two scared animals running away from shadows.

well you just have to think about why it doesn’t happen in reality and try to model it here

The player that entered a territory must at least leave one unit behind. And the rule forcing defender to declare retreat first makes this possible and also protects the attacker. we want to encourage attacks and not defense. Dynamic vs. Static.

yeah thats one solution
at least the unrealistic trapping is limited to one unit
if we can’t think of better we’ll just use this

note regarding dynamic vs. static
OOB doesn’t actually encourage attacks because of dangers of trapped units and exposure to counterattack
what happens in OOB is simply “trading” until one side can’t afford to
by not trapping units and allowing defender retreat AARHE is indeed dynamic

The rule must force the attacker to leave at least one unit in, or this falls into the category of tricks. These rules are meant to remove all tricks as a result of abstractions we create.

yeah we’ll use this rule
it strikes a balance between what you and I are trying to have

though this is what player would do anyway, use a token force to capture the territory and stop enemy from getting the income and slow enemy advance

[Imperious Leader]

Yes something like this, including map items regarding the Maginot line, Oil symbols, etc.
yeah those 1939 specific items are going in the 1939 rules file

But please make them an appendix to the rules so its all in one place. not separate files.

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Yes saved at capital. You lose it only when you lose capital. good.
no I am saying thats what OOB does and is too restrictive
recall we have convoy rules

this is why you save at VCs, or if you want save at any territory
these are the options

Its too micromanagement. it need to be simple. who is gonna deal with placing chips at VC’s to keep track of what they saved?

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what do they do? They also retreat! what kind of thing is this?  Thats totally ridiculous. its like two scared animals running away from shadows.
well you just have to think about why it doesn’t happen in reality and try to model it here

Lets go back to co-existing rules to solve this. only units moving 2 spaces can move out. Infantry is considered engaged and stuck, unless one side totally moves out and defender chooses first.

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The player that entered a territory must at least leave one unit behind. And the rule forcing defender to declare retreat first makes this possible and also protects the attacker. we want to encourage attacks and not defense. Dynamic vs. Static.
yeah thats one solution
at least the unrealistic trapping is limited to one unit
if we can’t think of better we’ll just use this

lets not settle on something this important. come up with a solution as well. I will do the same.

note regarding dynamic vs. static
OOB doesn’t actually encourage attacks because of dangers of trapped units and exposure to counterattack
what happens in OOB is simply “trading” until one side can’t afford to
by not trapping units and allowing defender retreat AARHE is indeed dynamic

yes true, but the defender retreats and the attacker also retreats leaving an empty warzone when 1/2 a million men just fought is totally reckless modeling. Its not realistic at all. The territory the size of Poland is fought over and both side just vanish after combat looks strange.

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The rule must force the attacker to leave at least one unit in, or this falls into the category of tricks. These rules are meant to remove all tricks as a result of abstractions we create.
yeah we’ll use this rule
it strikes a balance between what you and I are trying to have

though this is what player would do anyway, use a token force to capture the territory and stop enemy from getting the income and slow enemy advance

Yes possibly but can another option be better? more thought required on this problem.

[tekkyy]

anyway here is another interim update

http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20080226_AARHE.pdf
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20080226_AARHE_clear.pdf

But please make them an appendix to the rules so its all in one place. not separate files.

we separated projects from the main rules file
why do you want it together again?
the Appendix is very long already

we don’t have to make the whole AARHE thing centred around the 1939 map

Its too micromanagement. it need to be simple. who is gonna deal with placing chips at VC’s to keep track of what they saved?

its really just UK thats has the complexity, the other nations don’t normally have to do it

if you are only allowed to save at London, once it is under blockade the spending at the colonies will be very restrictive
plus it would be like shipping from colonies to London to save and then bring it back to the colonies to spend…

lets not settle on something this important. come up with a solution as well. I will do the same.

its not that bad
as I said leaving one unit is probably what people would do in the restricted case that I like
but yes we can keep thinking about other options

co-occupation can be some work, you have to sit down and really think about it and define all the cases
it is not a one liner
(the way I see it you seem to regularly forget about AARHE rules, probably due to number of parellel projects, so this might not be something you can the time afford to do)

the movement point thing would always force infantry to be stuck
that is going to hurt the dynamic aspect and bring us back to OOB land trading

[Imperious Leader]

But please make them an appendix to the rules so its all in one place. not separate files.
we separated projects from the main rules file
why do you want it together again?
the Appendix is very long already

Yes but its easier to have the files together including the player aids attached to the PDF ( thats 3 battleboards, Victory city, Diplomatic, Technology, 1939 specific rules,1939 set ups, and the general cards. That makes it one large file for print out so people dont have to click on 50 different files to get all sorts of things. Lets make it easy for everybody.

Also the maps all in one large file 3 maps and the 1939 set up map

we don’t have to make the whole AARHE thing centred around the 1939 map

no of course not it. goes on the end. its not the centerpiece.

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Its too micromanagement. it need to be simple. who is gonna deal with placing chips at VC’s to keep track of what they saved?
its really just UK thats has the complexity, the other nations don’t normally have to do it

if you are only allowed to save at London, once it is under blockade the spending at the colonies will be very restrictive
plus it would be like shipping from colonies to London to save and then bring it back to the colonies to spend…

Thats even more of a reason to dump it. It only applies to one case, one nation. whats wrong with “you lose your capital you lose saved IPC?”

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lets not settle on something this important. come up with a solution as well. I will do the same.
its not that bad
as I said leaving one unit is probably what people would do in the restricted case that I like
but yes we can keep thinking about other options

co-occupation can be some work, you have to sit down and really think about it and define all the cases
it is not a one liner
(the way I see it you seem to regularly forget about AARHE rules, probably due to number of parellel projects, so this might not be something you can the time afford to do)

the movement point thing would always force infantry to be stuck
that is going to hurt the dynamic aspect and bring us back to OOB land trading

heres the co-occupation rules again from that ww1 game:

Co-Existing:

1. At land:
When withdrawing from combat, the attacker has the option of remaining in the territory and contesting it instead of withdrawing back to their territory. When contested, forts do not fix, and the value of the territory is halved (rounded up) for both economic worth and production.  Only the original owner gets the income and can produce there at his new reduced value.

While a territory is contested, each side may bring in reinforcements from the outside.  Units are not allowed to move out of the territory to another enemy or contested area without first moving back through a friendly territory (thus units with a movement of two can use one movement point to move to a rear “friendly” space and then move into another combat situation with the second movement point). Railroads do not function in a contested area.

Either side may initiate a battle at any time later by simply declaring an attack.  In this way there may be several battles over a territory, with both sides attacking and falling back.

2. At Sea:
Fleets may coexist in a sea.  However, when a fleet attempts to move, the opposing side may make one attempt to intercept.  If the roll is a 1-2 on a D6 then the fleet will have to fight the enemy ships, forfeiting all movement. Subs do not follow this and may move freely out of the space.

Battleships cannot repair in a contested sea zone.

remember this is verbatim and particular to that game. It needs to be tailored, but it has been extensively play tested and it works

[tekkyy]

Yes but its easier to have the files together including the player aids attached to the PDF ( thats 3 battleboards, Victory city, Diplomatic, Technology, 1939 specific rules,1939 set ups, and the general cards. That makes it one large file for print out so people dont have to click on 50 different files to get all sorts of things. Lets make it easy for everybody.

I don’t know if thats going to “make it easy for everybody”
attaching player aids will make a huge file and print quality wouldnt be good

one mega file? if the project is done, fixed, all over…then maybe

I have a feeling such a large file won’t be friendly to new players
its like a photo album  :-(

I am fine with all player aids in one file though

Also the maps all in one large file 3 maps and the 1939 set up map

thats bunching the projects together
each project updates at their own rate

no of course not it. goes on the end. its not the centerpiece.

I am thinking all 1939 project files in one file
map, rules, setup aid

Thats even more of a reason to dump it. It only applies to one case, one nation. whats wrong with “you lose your capital you lose saved IPC?”

its simply a realistic outcome of the model

if Allies control Altantic, UK won’t have to deal with it
if Allies control Pacific, Japan will be in trouble

are you even reading this? you seems to be so hurried

nothing wrong with you lose your capital you lose saved IPC there

Co-Existing

yeah sounds familar
it was bought up some time ago
we’ll try to give it time and work

we’ve been changing a few core things this months
I am a feeling there is much changing and little testing

[Imperious Leader]

Yes but its easier to have the files together including the player aids attached to the PDF ( thats 3 battleboards, Victory city, Diplomatic, Technology, 1939 specific rules,1939 set ups, and the general cards. That makes it one large file for print out so people dont have to click on 50 different files to get all sorts of things. Lets make it easy for everybody.

I don’t know if thats going to “make it easy for everybody”
attaching player aids will make a huge file and print quality wouldnt be good

one mega file? if the project is done, fixed, all over…then maybe

I have a feeling such a large file won’t be friendly to new players
its like a photo album  sad

I am fine with all player aids in one file though yes lets do that. At least it will be in one file. people can pick and choose what they need.

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Also the maps all in one large file 3 maps and the 1939 set up map
thats bunching the projects together
each project updates at their own rate

Well then put them in one folder with different files ( only the latest files)

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Thats even more of a reason to dump it. It only applies to one case, one nation. whats wrong with “you lose your capital you lose saved IPC?”
its simply a realistic outcome of the model

if Allies control Altantic, UK won’t have to deal with it
if Allies control Pacific, Japan will be in trouble

are you even reading this? you seems to be so hurried

nothing wrong with you lose your capital you lose saved IPC there

How are you accounting for all the saved income at various cities? any method proves cumbersome. If the Allies control the pacific Japan wont be getting income from islands anyway because of the rule ( that should still be in the text) regarding that if you don’t control as path of sea zones from islands to your capital you don’t gain income from these places. Other than that the income is immediately in your treasury  as saved income and only lost if you lose your capital. Once its in your capital as saved income you cant lose it unless you lose the capital.

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Co-Existing
yeah sounds familar
it was bought up some time ago
we’ll try to give it time and work

we’ve been changing a few core things this months
I am a feeling there is much changing and little testing

On this i have tested it, in fact the rules are quite similar in terms of retreats etc. no problems.

[tekkyy]

If the Allies control the pacific Japan wont be getting income from islands anyway because of the rule ( that should still be in the text) regarding that if you don’t control as path of sea zones from islands to your capital you don’t gain income from these places.

actually its not “to your capital”
its from the income generating territory to where you are spending it
being connected to UK doesn’t mean you can spend it at India for example

Other than that the income is immediately in your treasury as saved income and only lost if you lose your capital. Once its in your capital as saved income you cant lose it unless you lose the capital.

you keep repeating the “lose saved income only if you lose the capital” aspect of your rule

but what do you think of the problem I mentioned?
ie. these income transverse the Altantic twice even though the money is generated and spent at the colonies

Germany blockades UK home island
UK chooses to minimise losses by spending money at the other threatres of war
and then your rule comes in and…

On this i have tested it, in fact the rules are quite similar in terms of retreats etc. no problems.

I will study the details later
so far I can see it’ll allow stalling
which might leads to more complex rules (for anti-stall)

tune it and post exact rule soon so we can discuss

[Imperious Leader]

If the Allies control the pacific Japan wont be getting income from islands anyway because of the rule ( that should still be in the text) regarding that if you don’t control as path of sea zones from islands to your capital you don’t gain income from these places.
actually its not “to your capital”
its from the income generating territory to where you are spending it
being connected to UK doesn’t mean you can spend it at India for example.

it does not matter how and why the income is exchanged two and from. Only one thing: you don’t collect for income on small islands if the enemy occupies the sea zones around those islands. The islands don’t include Japan, UK, and Australia.

The second idea is saved income is lost if you capital is lost. nothing more needs to be said.

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Other than that the income is immediately in your treasury as saved income and only lost if you lose your capital. Once its in your capital as saved income you cant lose it unless you lose the capital.
you keep repeating the “lose saved income only if you lose the capital” aspect of your rule

I keep repeating this because its the only type of rule that fits what were trying to do. Anything else is too much for people to deal with. I personally would never play it. Its unneeded fluff and adds nothing.

but what do you think of the problem I mentioned?
ie. these income transverse the Altantic twice even though the money is generated and spent at the colonies

that’s not necessarily true. And secondly, its something thats really beyond what were trying to do. This cant turn into something overly complicated where you have to account for where the money came from and where its going to to determine whether specific saved income is lost if you lose a colony. Its simply fixed with the ‘isolation of income’ rule pertaining to islands, so those small islands ( not japan or england, austrialia) don’t give the parent nation income if the sea zones they reside in is occupied by enemy ships. THATS IT. no other rules regarding how income ‘travels’ or how income is saved goes beyond the point of this: you lose the capital you lose saved money. Thats it nothing more.

Its hard enough for people to even get the idea/ concept of paying different amounts for infantry and placement outside of factories. Your arguing for rules that take people away from AARHE. It cant be overly complicated. Just fix MOST of the stupid realism issues that make it too abstracted.

IN fact the light version ( AKA AARHE: for Dummies) which your working on will be a stripped version and under 8 pages of pure text.

Germany blockades UK home island
UK chooses to minimise losses by spending money at the other threatres of war
and then your rule comes in and…

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On this i have tested it, in fact the rules are quite similar in terms of retreats etc. no problems.
I will study the details later
so far I can see it’ll allow stalling
which might leads to more complex rules (for anti-stall)

tune it and post exact rule soon so we can discuss

[tekkyy]

you make it sound so simple
there was a process before this

you might have forgotten all the workings
hence you feel its so simple and just say 2 lines

what you proposed leds to no benefits for Axis to control Altantic War and Med Sea

so from what I hear you say, I sugguest these possible cuts to the current system:

*all logistic costs paid in advance, refund possible…or even get rid of it
*no more convoy dice, each unit kills 1 IPC 100% of time…or even disallow money to transverse enemy sea zones the way you are speaking
*Production Interruption simplified to 1 IPC per cycle….or even get rid of it

[Imperious Leader]

*all logistic costs paid in advance, refund possible…or even get rid of it
Logistical costs related to attacks only paid in advance— Invasions and Airborne because these are related to attacks.
Movement into Sahara only and no combat can be paid for latter

*no more convoy dice, each unit kills 1 IPC 100% of time…or even disallow money to transverse enemy sea zones the way you are speaking
ships still roll out and still take  1 IPC if they hit. Its very simple. The income lost is subtracted on the players following turn.

*Production Interruption simplified to 1 IPC per cycle…or even get rid of it
Per cycle?  Its easy each ship rolls out whatever the rule says and if it suceeds, then 1 ipc lost by owning player. Thats it.

None of this has any relevance to the saving of income issue. I am not sure why your bringing THESE rules up.

I played it this way and its fine. Their is nothing more to consider. Please make an example of how this income saving issue  at each independent locale ( say territory not land connected to home territory) totally destroys a nation.

You bring up UK and Japan. None of them are effected in any way by isolation rules except if they occupy small islands and these sea zones where the island is is occupied by enemy ships, then they are denied IPC from that source.

The ONLY other thing that effects them is each German ship in the open atlantic or indian ocean ( not in neutral port) takes one potential IPC from Uk or USA these may include subs.

Likewise, USA and UK subs only in Pacific can also harm Japan potentially with a die roll causing 1 IPC damage.

The only difference in the reciprocity of these two items is the allied player can only do this with subs, while the German player can do this with any ship.  Also, if Italy takes the proper measures to get out of Medd. They can also do this.

All these rules used to be in the files but i dont bother to mention them until, now.

For some reason it came up that everybody has some equal opportunity to harm each nation and thats not what historically happened.  To be historical it should reflect the actual abilities of these nations.

Italy is kinda iffy, because Duce didnt have any fuel to sail outside the medd. But Italy is weak anyway and we need to give Germany some effective start for a submarine campaign which is lacking in revised.

[tekkyy]

I made a long post, then I cut back
it reads a bit funny
but anyway I am sugguesting those simplifications for real

logistical costs
I was thinking simpler if all paid in advance
for Sahara, both paid in advance or paid afterwards is reasonable or arguably realistic anyway

you mentioned “movement into Sahara and no combat”
what do you mean? does it make a difference? are you saying you want “no combat” to be paid after, and “yes combat” to be paid in advance?

convoy
if not exactly unrealistic, then lets make it hit all the time and save the rolling
like OOB and AARe

you mention “subtract following turn”, doesn’t make sense, maybe you misunderstood the rules
they are destroyed and you lost the money this turn, less money to spend

in enemy turn they move into position and then in your turn you are affected, not later

production interruption
you misunderstood
I am referring to the rule named “production interruption”
(after 3 cycles of land combat, territory income reduced, table lookup for damage)

I am saying we could simplify it to in each cycle of land combat cause damage, effectively a 1 IPC SBR

None of this has any relevance to the saving of income issue. I am not sure why your bringing THESE rules up.

to clarify, I am merely hoping to simplify other areas instead

All these rules used to be in the files but i dont bother to mention them until, now.

I think you are taking about some old rules
some elements are totally superceded
some elements remain but were rewritten differently because you said they are hard to understand

You bring up UK and Japan. None of them are effected in any way by isolation rules except if they occupy small islands and these sea zones where the island is is occupied by enemy ships, then they are denied IPC from that source.

The ONLY other thing that effects them is each German ship in the open atlantic or indian ocean ( not in neutral port) takes one potential IPC from Uk or USA these may include subs.

Likewise, USA and UK subs only in Pacific can also harm Japan potentially with a die roll causing 1 IPC damage.

here you seems to be talking in a blend of rules
by “isolation rules” are you referring to your

f you don’t control as path of sea zones from islands to your capital you don’t gain income from these places

?
it in conflict with “causing 1 IPC damage” which is under “convoy sea zone” heading in current rules

anyway I am saying since UK and Japan is scattered
they are affected the most if saving has to be done at Capital
saved IPC would be raided twice, strangely

or are you saying saving mechanism can skip the convoy sea zone rule?

path
finally I remind what we have a path system
because convoy raid not related to production, or not related to actual shipping, is silly

[Imperious Leader]

logistical costs
I was thinking simpler if all paid in advance
for Sahara, both paid in advance or paid afterwards is reasonable or arguably realistic anyway

ok fine make it so…

you mentioned “movement into Sahara and no combat”
what do you mean? does it make a difference? are you saying you want “no combat” to be paid after, and “yes combat” to be paid in advance?

It does not matter now because we now have it all paid for in advance. never mind

convoy
if not exactly unrealistic, then lets make it hit all the time and save the rolling
like OOB and AARe

yes please simplify and consolidate these rules into a easy to use package.

you mention “subtract following turn”, doesn’t make sense, maybe you misunderstood the rules
they are destroyed and you lost the money this turn, less money to spend

in enemy turn they move into position and then in your turn you are affected, not later

your correct meant this turn.

production interruption
you misunderstood
I am referring to the rule named “production interruption”
(after 3 cycles of land combat, territory income reduced, table lookup for damage)

Yes thats correct, thats another rule that we keep yes.

I am saying we could simplify it to in each cycle of land combat cause damage, effectively a 1 IPC SBR

well it it removes yet another thing to look up and index then it would be better. I IPC i could go for. sounds like a winner Tekkyy. do it.

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You bring up UK and Japan. None of them are effected in any way by isolation rules except if they occupy small islands and these sea zones where the island is is occupied by enemy ships, then they are denied IPC from that source.

The ONLY other thing that effects them is each German ship in the open atlantic or indian ocean ( not in neutral port) takes one potential IPC from Uk or USA these may include subs.

Likewise, USA and UK subs only in Pacific can also harm Japan potentially with a die roll causing 1 IPC damage.
here you seems to be talking in a blend of rules
by “isolation rules” are you referring to your

This was a good rule and it should not have been thrown away. Also, as i remember the German subs and ships dont actually cause USA damage, only the aid of lend lease that flows to either UK or USSR is damaged… the American economy was not dependent on its few colonies

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f you don’t control as path of sea zones from islands to your capital you don’t gain income from these places
?
it in conflict with “causing 1 IPC damage” which is under “convoy sea zone” heading in current rules

They can both work. The fact that German ships are in these sea zones reduces income, the fact that American or British or even Japanese ships control the sea zone that surrounds the small island also denys income to that owning player. This is historical modeling.

anyway I am saying since UK and Japan is scattered
they are affected the most if saving has to be done at Capital
saved IPC would be raided twice, strangely

How are they effected? they ONLY lose the saved income if the home territory is captured. That would be the end of the game for each of them in practical terms. They are also protected by the fact that they are islands and cant be assaulted by connected land territories. They have a great advantage. Their is nothing strange about it.

YOU ONLY LOSE SAVED INCOME IF YOU HOME CAPITAL FALLS. NOTHING CAN BE RAIDED UNLESS YOU LOSE YOUR CAPITAL WHICH IS BASICALLY LOSING THE GAME.

or are you saying saving mechanism can skip the convoy sea zone rule?

OMG. lets get past this. Its a non-issue. Its not even related to that.

path
finally I remind what we have a path system
because convoy raid not related to production, or not related to actual shipping, is silly

This makes no sence to me what your saying.

forget path system unless it relates to “isolation of small islands” because those German ships/ subs and UK/ USA pacific subs only take income from the enemy if these ships make their saving roll as per our rules.

also please post a non-PDF version ( Microsoft word)

[Imperious Leader]

http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20080226_AARHE.pdf
http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/20080226_AARHE_clear.pdf

page 38 is not working.

also i know you strive for perfection, but too much space is wasted on these sheets. Its not a crime to use the space more efficiently and bring together parts on the same page. The document was way under 50 pages, but its back up to 57 from like 42 pages. smaller the better, but not squashed up

[tekkyy]

This was a good rule and it should not have been thrown away. Also, as i remember the German subs and ships dont actually cause USA damage, only the aid of lend lease that flows to either UK or USSR is damaged… the American economy was not dependent on its few colonies

America is not scattered
under the system Axis can’t really hardly hit them via convoy

How are they effected? they ONLY lose the saved income if the home territory is captured.

OMG. lets get past this. Its a non-issue. Its not even related to that.

you misunderstood what I meant

IPC is in the bank can’t be convoy raided
convoy raid happens in the sea

the double dip happens because you are forcing them to save at the Capital
turn 1, UK collects money and saves them at London…it makes a run through Altantic and gets hit once
turn 2, UK builds a ship with the money at Australia…it makes a run through Altantic again and gets hit second time

anyway, if you are fine with the inconvenience that we’ll let saving at Capital only

They can both work. The fact that German ships are in these sea zones reduces income, the fact that American or British or even Japanese ships control the sea zone that surrounds the small island also denys income to that owning player. This is historical modeling.

Just that if one rule could do it already, then its simpler.
“convoy sea zone” is more generic and in a sense covers it all.

Its just 1 unit destroys 1 IPC. (getting rid of the roll like OOB and AARe as I think you agreed earlier in the same post)

This makes no sence to me what your saying

sorry typo, instead of “what we have a path system” meant to be “why we have a path system”

forget path system unless it relates to “isolation of small islands”

hm, actually path system is basic, generic, and naturally applies to other areas

in the land, was the pioneer of the whole thing
mid 2006, at the beginning of the project it was called “blockade”

[b]Blockade[/b]
During collect income phase if a territory is completely surrounded by hostile/neutral territories and/or hostile sea zones, the territory is under blockade.
The blockaded territory's income can only be spent in its own VC or IC. Income from other territories may not be spent in the blockaded territory's VC or IC.
[i]Regions under blockade only receives, at best, maintenance supplies via air. [/i]

also please post a non-PDF version ( Microsoft word)

I’ll see what I can do
I presume no need to remind you why I moved away from msword

page 38 is not working

ah yes, the table is too big after I got rid of the unit abbreivations

also i know you strive for perfection, but too much space is wasted on these sheets. Its not a crime to use the space more efficiently and bring together parts on the same page.

yeah Latex stops sections from breaking and causing space
I’ll try to tweak

[Imperious Leader]

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This was a good rule and it should not have been thrown away. Also, as i remember the German subs and ships dont actually cause USA damage, only the aid of lend lease that flows to either UK or USSR is damaged… the American economy was not dependent on its few colonies

America is not scattered
under the system Axis can’t really hardly hit them via convoy.

I know they hit the lend lease payments and uk Income…just like the war

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How are they effected? they ONLY lose the saved income if the home territory is captured.
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OMG. lets get past this. Its a non-issue. Its not even related to that.
you misunderstood what I meant

IPC is in the bank can’t be convoy raided
convoy raid happens in the sea

the double dip happens because you are forcing them to save at the Capital
turn 1, UK collects money and saves them at London…it makes a run through Altantic and gets hit once
turn 2, UK builds a ship with the money at Australia…it makes a run through Altantic again and gets hit second time

anyway, if you are fine with the inconvenience that we’ll let saving at Capital only

But in any event they lose income on their next turn. The income is reduced from the collect income phase.

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They can both work. The fact that German ships are in these sea zones reduces income, the fact that American or British or even Japanese ships control the sea zone that surrounds the small island also denys income to that owning player. This is historical modeling.

Just that if one rule could do it already, then its simpler.
“convoy sea zone” is more generic and in a sense covers it all.

In the actual war the Soviets had no shipping they depended on other than lend lease, USA didnt depend on shipping for its economy, but UK and Japan specifically required most of its resources to be imported. They can then be interdicted on the high seas, and we simply model this with the roll out and losing 1 ipc for each ship in open shipping lanes. Thats simple enough.

Its just 1 unit destroys 1 IPC. (getting rid of the roll like OOB and AARe as I think you agreed earlier in the same post)

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This makes no sence to me what your saying
sorry typo, instead of “what we have a path system” meant to be “why we have a path system”
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forget path system unless it relates to “isolation of small islands”
hm, actually path system is basic, generic, and naturally applies to other areas

in the land, was the pioneer of the whole thing
mid 2006, at the beginning of the project it was called “blockade”

Code:

Blockade
During collect income phase if a territory is completely surrounded by hostile/neutral territories and/or hostile sea zones, the territory is under blockade.
The blockaded territory’s income can only be spent in its own VC or IC. Income from other territories may not be spent in the blockaded territory’s VC or IC.
Regions under blockade only receives, at best, maintenance supplies via air.

That has been changed from before. It excluded large islands and it also didn’t have that last sentence with makes no sence at all. Also, it did not apply to land locked territories. Thats like saying Finland and norway dont give money to Germany if the soviets occupy Karelia.

This rule of blockade was only pertaining to small islands, to encourage island hopping campaign against japan.

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also please post a non-PDF version ( Microsoft word)
I’ll see what I can do
I presume no need to remind you why I moved away from msword

Yes i know thanks!

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also i know you strive for perfection, but too much space is wasted on these sheets. Its not a crime to use the space more efficiently and bring together parts on the same page.
yeah Latex stops sections from breaking and causing space
I’ll try to tweak

ok good.

Let me say that at times i am not too kind in my own way of posting, but i assure you that you hold my utmost respect and admiration for doing this most crucial work. You are a true comrade indeed.

[tekkyy]

But in any event they lose income on their next turn. The income is reduced from the collect income phase.

I suppose, like last time, you meant “this turn”

so I’ve already say ok to save at capital only
one last thing though, it means at game start money in China can’t be saved at all

and since it was repeated a few times
currently, there is actually one more way to losing saved IPC besides losing capital
it is SBR/rocket (no negative income but excess is applied to saved IPC)

They can then be interdicted on the high seas, and we simply model this with the roll out and losing 1 ipc for each ship in open shipping lanes. Thats simple enough.

so to confirm, the generic convoy rule is enough right?
no need for island isolation rule
no need to specify which nation (US and USSR in practice won’t be hit)

lastly, also want to confirm whether you are happy with getting rid of the roll so its like OOB and AARe
simply 1 IPC per hostile naval unit (except for transport)

Let me say that at times i am not too kind in my own way of posting, but i assure you that you hold my utmost respect and admiration for doing this most crucial work. You are a true comrade indeed.

of course, I understand
we are both passionated about house rules
I’ve know you for almost 2 years now

document length
by the way I was able to shrink to 37 pages

air transport
I changed wording slightly
instead of “may act as transport for one Infantry or one Airborne Infantry” it is now “may carry one Infantry or one Airborne Infantry”

this is because normal transport rules says you can’t move once you offloaded
but combat move air transport (paradrop) plane can’t land and must move away

secondly if you must stop after offload then the old wording makes a UK transport plane @ London can paradrop Western Europe every turn yet it move a unit in Non-Combat Move to Western Europe every turn

unchanged is that both transport plane and airborne/infantry must start in the same territory for both cases

SBR reducing number of units deployable
idea by ncscswitch
I’ve added it in
you choose between IPC damage or reduce unit production
(unchanged is you always roll for SR rail damaged if the optional rule is taken)

[Imperious Leader]

But in any event they lose income on their next turn. The income is reduced from the collect income phase.
I suppose, like last time, you meant “this turn”

so I’ve already say ok to save at capital only
one last thing though, it means at game start money in China can’t be saved at all

Oh yes exception. Starting income is issued before the game starts, so players have at least the starting money.

and since it was repeated a few times
currently, there is actually one more way to losing saved IPC besides losing capital
it is SBR/rocket (no negative income but excess is applied to saved IPC)

right thats good.

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They can then be interdicted on the high seas, and we simply model this with the roll out and losing 1 ipc for each ship in open shipping lanes. Thats simple enough.
so to confirm, the generic convoy rule is enough right?
no need for island isolation rule
no need to specify which nation (US and USSR in practice won’t be hit)

we have both the High seas rule and the blockade rule that applies to small islands inside one sea zone. These are different ideas and are also linked as ways to attack nations by economic warfare, like SBR

lastly, also want to confirm whether you are happy with getting rid of the roll so its like OOB and AARe
simply 1 IPC per hostile naval unit (except for transport)

On this its up to you. I would prefer the roll out rather than “you just reduce no matter what”, in fact id really prefer a roll out where you can get lucky…  roll 1-2= nothing, 3-4=1 ipc lost, 5-6=2 ipc lost…something like this. perhaps just the 6 result gets you 3 ipc  roll 1-2= nothing, 3-4=1 ipc lost, 5=2 ipc lost 6=3 ipc lost

its up to you. Please post when finished. then we work on AARHE light.

Note: now the eyes will be looking at our creation more because its very similar in scope to the new Axis and Allies Anniversary edition. People like previews to movies and AARHE is the closest thing to that. Lets finish up and post ASAP>

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

Oh yes exception. Starting income is issued before the game starts, so players have at least the starting money.

actually due to collect income being at the start of the turn, you do not collect money during game setup anymore
of you would have 200% money to spend on 1st turn

just in case you don’t know what I mean about China
if Japan takes China, with Sinkiang left its only 2 IPC
you can’t build an infantry with 2 IPC, and it can’t be saved, so it’ll be lost ok?

we have both the High seas rule and the blockade rule that applies to small islands inside one sea zone. These are different ideas and are also linked as ways to attack nations by economic warfare, like SBR

an “isolated” East Indices or Borneo should still be able to spend money on itself right?
so the isolation rule shouldn’t stop the island from generating IPC but stop it from sending IPC out

hence its quite similar to convoy rule
the difference is just 1 IPC per unit rather than 1 unit stops all

On this its up to you. I would prefer the roll out rather than “you just reduce no matter what”, in fact id really prefer a roll out where you can get lucky…

ok then lets not roll, to be in familiar ground with OOB and AARe
(dice value divided by 2 is quite a lot really, thats average 2 IPC per unit)

Please post when finished. then we work on AARHE light.

yeah we can finish up if we can go without the co-occupation rule

[Imperious Leader]

Oh yes exception. Starting income is issued before the game starts, so players have at least the starting money.
actually due to collect income being at the start of the turn, you do not collect money during game setup anymore
of you would have 200% money to spend on 1st turn

just in case you don’t know what I mean about China
if Japan takes China, with Sinkiang left its only 2 IPC
you can’t build an infantry with 2 IPC, and it can’t be saved, so it’ll be lost ok?

Your talking about phase 1-2 maps, i’m talking about 39 map specifically, but that what happens in that version because that map has only 2 Chinese territory’s. Nothing can really help it with just one infantry anyway, because soviets cant enter China except to liberate Japanese from it. So they take one on J1 and take finish it on turn j2, Soviets then come in and retake and get the income. yes its ok.

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we have both the High seas rule and the blockade rule that applies to small islands inside one sea zone. These are different ideas and are also linked as ways to attack nations by economic warfare, like SBR
an “isolated” East Indices or Borneo should still be able to spend money on itself right?
so the isolation rule shouldn’t stop the island from generating IPC but stop it from sending IPC out

hence its quite similar to convoy rule
the difference is just 1 IPC per unit rather than 1 unit stops all

yes yes.

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On this its up to you. I would prefer the roll out rather than “you just reduce no matter what”, in fact id really prefer a roll out where you can get lucky…
ok then lets not roll, to be in familiar ground with OOB and AARe
(dice value divided by 2 is quite a lot really, thats average 2 IPC per unit)

ok fine

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Please post when finished. then we work on AARHE light.
yeah we can finish up if we can go without the co-occupation rule

Well if we not use this then we must remove the part where neither side occupies a territory where a huge battle took place ( the retreat of both sides idea) Then ill let the Co-OP rule die.

what you think?