New Axis & Allies Global War Variant (free map)

[murraymoto]

Good points Micoom,

Perhaps the half circle sea zone that extends from Portugal to Morroco should start at souther end of Portugal and extend to souther tip of Morroco so Morroco is not touched by 2 sea zones, makes it a full 2 turns from US, currently same distance from UK.

Splitting Solomons into 2 sea zones could give some historics to Guadalcanal, if one territory, then 2 sea zones that show some of the back and forth play between US and Jap.  Historically, they traded it back and forth for a while between day and night fighting of ships.

[Positronica]

@losttribe04:

How can one obtain units for the new China and Italy forces?

If you have A&A: Pacific, A&A: Europe, and A&A: Revised, you’ll have enough different colors of pieces to play on this map.  I suggest using the following colors for each country…

Germany: Black German pieces from A&A: Europe or grey German pieces from A&A: Revised
Russia: Maroon Russian pieces from A&A: Europe or A&A: Revised
UK: Tan UK pieces from A&A:Europe and A&A:Pacific
Japan: Red Japanese pieces from A&A:Pacific
USA: Green US pieces from any of the three versions
Italy: Cream colored UK pieces from A&A: Revised
Neutrals: Orange Japanese pieces from A&A: Revised
China: Brown Chinese pieces from A&A: Pacific (Or just use US pieces if you don’t use the special chinese rules.)

That will give you all the different colors you would need without having to dip into any older versions of the game.  The setup looks real nice, too, since by using all your pieces from the three versions of A&A listed above, the sculpt quality of the pieces is all very uniform.

[Positronica]

One more thing concerning territories…

I think maybe Fezzan should start under German control.  I hate to take a territory away from Italy, however as the map is right now, Germany doesn’t start with any North African territories bordering any UK territories.  I’ll admit I don’t know the history all that well, but it seems like it would make sense for Germany to be able to start fighting the UK right away.  I know we could always just setup German units in an Italian territory at the start, but I hate making exceptions like that.  Giving Fezzan to Germany would solve the problem.

[Imperious Leader]

I know we could always just setup German units in an Italian territory at the start, but I hate making exceptions like that.

This is not an exception… its historically accurate. Why make an entire territory under control of another nation? Lybia was a colony for italy for some time…

Their is nothing wrong with just saying the germans have the DAK ( Deutsche Afrika Korps) in Lybia just as they were in 1941.

[pdel21]

Positronica,

The problem is that Fezzan is definitely Italian, and always was Italian, even when the Afrika Korps basically took things over.  It was only in 1947 that Italy dropped claims to all of Libya.  I don’t see why Germany couldn’t just move troops into Libya from Tunisia in their non-combat movement.

AS for your pieces, depending on what you’re after, your solution works quite well since as you state the pieces are uniform.  Is it still possible to order sets of replacement pieces?

As for my group, we love the idea of using AAMinis in this game, not only for Italy, but for all nations.  It would be confusing to do so for relative novices to the game since it may be difficult to tell pieces apart due to some similarity.  But for my group (a bunch of folks in the Canadian military, plus myself, it is no problem).  I am in the midst of finalizing all of the pieces I will be using per nation.  Perhaps when I am done, I will post a spreadsheet of them all in case anyone else is interested in using them.

[pdel21]

Sorry I should have clarified……

Is it possible to order sets of replacement pieces for the folks who may not have those board games.  For example, I can see the utility in cream pieces for Neutrals, so if I wanted to order a set from AH is that possible.  I don’t have the revised game, just AA original, AAE and AAP.

[murraymoto]

@pdel21:

Is it possible to order sets of replacement pieces for the folks who may not have those board games.  For example, I can see the utility in cream pieces for Neutrals, so if I wanted to order a set from AH is that possible.  I don’t have the revised game, just AA original, AAE and AAP.

i tried ordering replacement AAP and AAR pieces in January from Hasbro, they said they only had AAP pieces, but from what I’ve read in threads is that there is always something that they do not send you when you try ordering from them.
But there are other places to get more pieces.

[deepblue]

Vichy France

The arguments that Vichy should not be financing the Germans are valid but…

I have major concerns about the following:

If we just make Vichy France and its territories neutral we are forcing the German/Axis player to attack Vichy on the first turn to A) get the income, B) to reinforce the territory to keep the Allies from invading.

This is not acceptable, I do not want to force any player’s move, the map should allow for various styles of play and tactics.

So… if we can come up with a solution to this problem I will gladly change the color.

The problem: How to discourage both the Axis and the Allies from attacking Vichy early.

The best ideas that I have at the moment are these:

The Axis & Allies can’t enter/attack Vichy territory until the Allies have declared war on Vichy or When turn X has passed.  Allies can only declare war during the “Check for Victory” stage of the turn.

OR

Can we treat Vichy in a similar manner as China?  Let another player (Axis) control its forces and maybe give them very limited production similar to China or none at all.  This way they are not financially supporting Germany but the Axis have some control over what happens to them.

Just some thoughts.

Any other ideas?

Vichy Territories:
Vichy France, Algeria, Northern Algeria, Tunisia, French West Africa, West Africa, Morocco, and Madagascar.

Vichy Color Samples
http://www.mediafire.com/?dnrz1jxmahh

Please let me know which color you like.

[pdel21]

deepblue,

The main problem I have with changing Vichy is this……

The French, who ran the un-occupied part of France (Germany occupied 3/5) from Vichy, were infact forced to pay occupation costs of 20 million reichmarks per day.  Yes the Germans were not occupying Vichy France, but the French goverment which was in Vichy, were still paying, as per the terms of the armistice , so in effect, they were financing the German war machine.

Since that is the case, why couldn’t those territories just remain under German control.  Where did the French come up with 20 million reichmarks per day?  Surely they took it from anywhere in the French territories, which would include all of the territories you mentioned in your post.  I really see no problem with leaving it in German hands.

[deepblue]

pdel21,

I agree with you 100%.

But other members of the thread have express concern over the Vichy issue on more than one occasion.  So I thought I would give this subject some time and allow for a focused debate on the matter.

[Imperious Leader]

Since that is the case, why couldn’t those territories just remain under German control.

This is a rational that makes no sence to me…

The Soviet Union provided aid to Germany before June 1941 and your not giving making the Soviet Union grey?

Why cant Vichy be neutral as thay actually are and if you want to represent 20 million in aid you can say Germany gets 1 IPC from Vichy per turn?

Instead you have this 20 Million represented as if it was some huge amount when  according to historian Mark Harrison the GDP of France in 1940 was 82 Billion.

20 Million a day is 7.3 billion a year of 1/11th of the value of the Vichy territories, while you make it out to be 100% of the value.

Thats why at most it would be 1 IPC and that would be too much

Additionally it allows german forces to be placed in Vichy territories, while this never happened until Germany attacked in Aug 42, and occupied southern france and latter moved into Tunisia to meet the Americans.

Giving Germany control of Madagaskar and territories south of Sahara is totally unrealistic.

[pdel21]

This really shouldn’t have to be explained……providing aid, and providing moneys for occupation are two completely different things, one is done willingly, the other is imposed on you.

Further, the Reich imposed an exchange rate of 20 francs to 1 mark, so your figures would be just a tad off, however, that is not the point here.  The point is for ease of game play.  If these are as neutral, it is as deepblue suggested in a previous post, now the Germans must attack to just to form somewhat of a defense against an allied landing.  This will put them at a disadvantage to start the game, further as deepblue suggested, it really forces Germany’s hand, which shouldn’t happen, it should be flexible.

For the record, I never liked German control of Madagascar and territories south of the Sahara, but I am prepared to sacrifice for deepblue’s sake so he doesn’t have to created umpteen versions of this map.  He is already doing us all a great service, which I for one greatly appreciate. I am happy with the map right now, and if doesn’t change any other territories, it would be fine with me.

deepblue, it seems this debate is never going to end. how about two maps, one the way it is and one with Vichy as neutral for whomever wants it that way.  They can house rule in whatever they want this way.

[murraymoto]

I would be in favor of Vichy being a different color (whether slight or more), but being German occupied with German forces.  The different color would allow for house rules to make it neutral.  (and if voting, i would vote for either of the 2 on the left)

Definitely game play is an issue.  Following the store-bought A/A game setup gives most of the Vichy territory to Germany, even though that game starts early '42.  However, as IL pointed out, Germany didn’t attack Vichy until August '42.  The gameplay comprise I think wins and house rules can be developed by whomever wants them.  The color change can better allow it, but wouldn’t mandate it.

Too many rules can be kill the fun for many more casual players.  And if we changed so much along the eastern front of Europe to allow Germany more options than just attack USSR, then we have just taken them away and forced them to invade Vichy.Â

I agree that to make Vichy neutral and more historical, then you do have to implement a number of special rules mandating how they are played and all that deepblue mentioned about when the allies attack or how many turns it even takes before the US can enter the war.  I don’t mind the Germans getting funds from far south vichy territories, i think it adds variations and the potential of what could have been, which I mentioned before.  I have a friend dying to start with a sub base in Madagascar because on the current setup of ipcs, germany has about 55 while UK has almost 80.  Though IPC values haven’t yet been finalized, Germany could use all the help it can get… but, I digress…

Vichy=German

[murraymoto]

I know it’s not a seazone issue, but what about combining the Northern Territory and Southern Australia territories into one?  Is 5 territories in Australia too many considering three of them are basically unihabited, outback and unlikely to even be invaded?

[Micoom]

Pdel21, I really don’t understand why you make such a big point out of it for not adding Vichy…. Yes Deepblue is doing a great job with the map and already has made good changes, and looking at what he has done so far, Vichy is just a minor change…

German in controll of Madagascar and South of the Sahara is to unrealistic, both historic and for gameplay.

Vichy rules;
If attacked by either side, all Vichy territories immediately join the opposing side.
Pro-Axis Neutral, Vichy France and Corsica territory income go directly to Germany until Vichy is drawn into war. Germany and Italian forces are allowed to fly over all Vichy territories.

Setup: Vichy France 3INF, all other 1INF

This is easy and much more historic then just German colored and under their control.

Further, shouldn’t East Poland also be Russian BTW?

[pdel21]

Micoom,

If you read my post carefully, I also said I was never in favour of Madagascar and south of Sahara being in German hands, I would be more than happy to make them British, as in the official versions of AA, even though that means a slight fudge of the timeline. I just do not see any sense in adding more colours to the map.  The game is already involved enough, and yes, East Poland should be Russian.

Also, it is unrealistic for Vichy to “join” the other side if attacked.  When the Brits attacked Syria and Madagascar and their naval fleet, Vichy did not run to the Germans to join them in the war effort, they broke off relations with the Brits.

[deepblue]

Gentlemen,

How about a compromise.

I will change the color of the Vichy territories south of the Sahara to one of the following:

A) Neutral

OR

B) British (Free French) controlled.

Please vote and tell me which option you like best.

[Micoom]

Then I would vote for British (Free French), because Allies are probably not allowed to attack Neutral territories??  If Alllies are allowed to attack those Neutrals, then option A.

Pdel21, I never said that you did favour German controlled Vichy territories south of the Sahara… But don’t let us get into a fight here. We all want the same, a nice gameboard!

[Imperious Leader]

Oh god thank you. Ill take option A. At least its something

In the case of the Levant States,Madagaskar, and Morroco these were attacked by UK/USA forces and turned from Vichy to Free French. The fighting didnt last long because the French had no stomach to fight her natural allies… or her enemies for that manner. :roll:

[pdel21]

I prefer option B, which is British (Free French) controlled.  So this means that the sub-saharan, Madagascar and Syria (although not sub-saharan) would be British correct???