@Baron:
Here is the most preeminent features which revised actual units cost structure, combat value and interaction in play:
First, except for 5 specific units: AAA’s, TcB’s, Fgs’, TPs’ and Subs’ casualties, all casualties are now chosen by the owner and there is no specific order for any units, including Transports.
Anti-Aircraft Artillery now defends almost as OOB but in every round against up to 2 aircrafts,
Fighter A2 D2-3 M4 at 6 IPCs (hit plane first) then AAA and
a weaker Tactical Bomber A3 D2 M4 C8, always selecting ground casualties and no Combined Arms.
This makes two different planes with distinctive functions.
This fighter unit (remotely related to his 1914 counter-part) is another answer to this question: “why planes can’t hit planes in A&A?”
This also includes a still acceptable historical Strategic Bombing Raid escort and intercept combat values in which:
Fighter gets A2 D2-3,
Tactical Bombers A1 first strike
Strategic Bombers A1 first strike against up to 2 Fgs, whichever the lesser (works like the new AAA, for a single combat round).
3-planes Aircraft Carrier at 12 IPCs with 2 hits and defending @3 (carrying up to 3 planes whether Fighters or Tactical Bombers).
The defense is highered up to D3 to keep with a full 3 Fgs load a similar advantage (to OOB) over attacking Carrier with 3 TcBs.
A cheaper and weaker Submarine A2 first strike D1 at 5 IPCs with almost same offensive (on battle calc) and lesser defensive combat value compared to OOB but an increase elusiveness against Destroyers,
Destroyer A2 D2 at 6 IPCs no more blocking submarines’ Surprise Strike , but blocks 1:1 for Submerge (1 round only) and Stealth Move
In addition, any hit by planes against submarines is treated normally: planes need no more special presence of Destroyer to hit submarine.
In addition, submarines are no more able to hit submarines.
Transport able to defend: A0 D0 as regular AA 1 plane maximum per TP, 1 hit, at 8 IPCs and get a combat value which simplify interactions with other units.
Also, it contains 2 additional units from HBG (to get a more complete historical roster of weapons) such as:
Mechanized Artillery A2-3 D2-3 M2 which becomes a substantial and competitive units at 5 IPCs,
Escort Carrier D2, carrying 1 plane (Fg or TcB) (an historical 1/3 ratio of Fleet Carrier capacity) with Anti-Sub Vessel capacity same as Destroyer.
So, now you get my simpler complete A&A units historical roster incremented scaled by 3 IPCs for surface warships, and a smoother game mechanics.
It is as balance (within itself, IMO) and as close as possible from historical feel dynamics (Battle of Atlantic) without too much sacrifice toward complexity.
The more interesting feature is the Fighter unit at same cost with Tank.
It is more able to figure the usefulness of Tank, Tactical Bomber and Fighter (3 important driving machine-weapons of WWII) on the battleground, not just Tank, and make them almost equivalent loss, from IPCs POV.
Fighter (A2 D2-3 M4 C6) is more versatile on Sea / Air / Land but have a lower offensive and defensive punch than Tank, and is unable to conquer land territory by itself while being directly vulnerable to AAA unit and other Fighters.
Tactical Bomber A3 D2 M4 C8, with the ability to select ground casualties provides an interesting feature either for offense or defense. But stay very vulnerable against Fighters while able to directly destroy AAA ground units.
This is a summary of their special abilities (some are house rules I already used and tested):
ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY A0 D1 CM1 Cost 3, 1 hit,
Each round, up to 2 preemptive defense @1 against up to 2 planes, whichever the lesser, works similar to OOB AAA but can defend each combat round.
Stop any blitz, and defend itself @1 against enemy’s ground units, if no attacking air unit is present.
Can move during combat move phase, can be taken as casualty (owner’s choice).
INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M1 Cost 3
Get +1A if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery
MECHANIZED INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M2 Cost 4,
Get +1 if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery
Can Blitz when paired 1:1 with a Tank
ARTILLERY A2 D2 M1 Cost 4
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry
(MECHANIZED ARTILLERY) (Self-Propelled Artillery / Assault Gun) A2-3 D2-3 M2 Cost 5 added for completeness
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry when paired 1:1 with.
Tank Hunter as a Tank Support capacity: gets +1A/D when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
Both bonus can work at the same time.
TANK A3 D3 M2 Cost 6
Can Blitz
Allow Mechanized Infantry or Mechanized Artillery to Blitz on 1 on 1 basis or a 1:1:1 basis.
_Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
Both bonus can apply.
SUBMARINES A2 first strike D1 M2 Cost 5
Surprise Strike, always on when attacking
Submerge, instead of rolling for a Surprise Strike attack (blocked by ASV on a 1:1 basis for the first combat round only),
Stealth Movement: No Hostile Sea-Zone (except ASV can block Submarine Stealth movement on 1:1 basis),
Cannot hit airplanes,
Cannot hit submarines,
Can be hit by planes, doesn’t require an Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Reality wrecking destroyer rules need a revamp…
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34169.msg1372793#msg1372793
DESTROYER A2 D2 M2 Cost 6
Anti-Sub Vessel:
Cancel Sub’s Submerge on 1 DD:1 Sub basis for the first combat round only
(When it occurs, defending Subs rolls a Defense @1 in the first round, and any surviving Subs can submerge at the beginning of the second combat round.)
Cancel Sub’s Stealth Movement on 1 DD: 1 Sub basis for Combat or Non Combat Move, all additional Sub units can perform a Stealth Movement as usual.
(1942.2 or G40.2 ESCORT CARRIER) A0 D2 M2 Cost 7, 1 hit, added for completeness
Carry 1 Fighter or 1 Tactical Bomber,
Anti-Sub Vessel, working the same as a Destroyer.
TRANSPORT A0 D0 regular AADef@1 Maximum 1 plane per TP M2 Cost 8, 1 hit
and each transport unit can be taken individually as casualty.
As long as their is still 1 TP remaining, it can roll this single defense @1 against plane.
If no enemy’s plane, 1 Transport per round can escape, beginning at the end of the second combat round.
Must be escorted by a warship when making an amphibious assault in an enemy’s Submarines infested SZ, so to be able to ignore them/ or fight them with combat units.
Otherwise, Submarines and Transports may be ignored during Transport Combat Move or Non Combat Move.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1373212#msg1373212
CRUISER A3 D3 M3 Cost 9
Shore bombardment @3
Gives +1 Move to any surface vessel (TP, DD, CVE, CV, BB) paired 1:1 with
G40.2 and 1942.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 12, 2 hits
Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
BATTLESHIP A4 D4 M2 Cost 15, 2 hits
Shore bombardment @4
FIGHTER A2 D2-3 M4, same in SBR Cost 6
Air combat unit, Fighter as an Air Superiority aircraft: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available, then AAA, and finally other kind of units.
Fighter as part of an extended Air Defense System:
1 Fighter units receive +1 Defense if protecting a territory with an operational Air Base, (for 1942.2, 2 Fgs can scramble from an Air Base/Victory City instead.)
SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even Defend @3 for 1 Fg if an operational Air Base is present.
Can scramble in adjacent SZ up to 4 Fgs: 3 defend @2 and 1 defend @3, getting the +1 Defense bonus from an operational Air Base.
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
TACTICAL BOMBER A3 D2 M4 Cost 8
All hits are allocated to any ground units of your choice.
This can makes for Tactical Bomber as a “Dive Bomber” and “Tank Buster”:
SBR/TcBR Attack @1 first strike,
Allowed to do escort mission of Strategic Bomber without doing Tactical Bombing Raid on Air Base or Naval Base,
Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
Cannot do interception mission on defense,
TcBR damage: 1D6.
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
Strategic BOMBER A4 D1 M6 Cost 10
Strategic Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1 first strike against up to 2 fighters, whichever the lesser, similar to AAA.
SBR/TBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
If destroyed by IC’s, AB’s or NB’s AA gun, a minimum SBR damage apply: 2 IPCs.
No damage if destroyed by Fighter interceptor.
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Rethinking Air Units
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34502.msg1331015#msg1331015
SBR/TcBR escort and intercept combat values:
Fighter: Attack 2 Defense 2 or 3 (+1 to 1 Fg from an operational Air Base)
Tactical Bomber: Attack 1 first strike Defense 0
Strategic Bomber: Attack 1 first strike , as AA gun against up to 2 Fgs, Defense 0
Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
I would allow 2 types of defensive maneuvers for aircraft.
DEFENSIVE MANEUVERS allowed for 2 or 3 types of aircraft:
Aerial Retreat for attacking planes (all aircrafts can retreat while letting ground units pursuing battle),
Limited landing in a just conquered territory (which includes at least 1 ground unit): 2 planes (either Fighter or Tactical Bomber), as long as each units can provide 1 extra movement point for this special landing.
I hope you will comment this whole A&A game changer (and feel free to talk about any features above, if you ever tried in your own F2F A&A game).
I also provides every tables in this document needed to summarize all these combat values.
1941, 1942.2 and AA50 Set-ups also includes the specific SZs for playing with Convoy Disruption House rule.
Convoy Disruption for 1942.2, AA50 & G40 Submarine economic warfare
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35687.msg1467061#msg1467061
AA_Baron Munchhausen units & set-up charts for 1942 2ndEd_1941_AA50.doc_
Here is the most preeminent features for 2 planes-Carrier and dogfight within combat rounds which revised actual units cost structure, combat value and interaction in play:
First, except for 5 specific units: AAA’s, TcB’s, Fgs’, TPs’ and Subs’ casualties, all casualties are now chosen by the owner and there is no specific order for any units, including Transports.
Anti-Aircraft Artillery now defends almost as OOB but in every round against up to 2 aircrafts,
this time
Fighter A3 D4 M4 at 8 IPCs (hit plane first on a 1 or 2 roll) then AAA and
a stronger Tactical Bomber A4 D3 M4 C10, able to select ground casualties on a 1 or 2 roll, and even enemy’s aircraft on 1 roll and no more Combined Arms with Tank or Fighter.
This makes two different planes with distinctive functions.
This fighter unit is another kind of answer to this question: “why planes can’t hit planes in A&A?”
This also includes a still acceptable historical Strategic Bombing Raid escort and intercept combat values in which:
Fighter gets A2 D2,
Tactical Bombers A1 first strike
Strategic Bombers A1 first strike against up to 2 Fgs, whichever the lesser (works like the new AAA, for a single combat round).
2-planes Aircraft Carrier at 12 IPCs with 2 hits and defending @2 (carrying up to 2 planes whether Fighters or Tactical Bombers). (As OOB, except for cost.)
A cheaper and weaker Submarine A2 first strike D1 at 5 IPCs with almost same offensive (on battle calc) and lesser defensive combat value compared to OOB but an increase elusiveness against Destroyers,
Destroyer A2 D2 no more blocking submarines’ Surprise Strike , but blocks 1:1 for Submerge (1 round only) and Stealth Move
In addition, any hit by planes against submarines is treated normally: planes need no more special presence of Destroyer to hit submarine.
In addition, submarines are no more able to hit submarines.
Transport able to defend: A0 D0 as regular AA 1 plane maximum per TP, 1 hit, at 8 IPCs and get a combat value (1 hit value) which simplify interactions with other units. Also, there is an escaping capacity added to TPs when there is no enemy’s plane so have no defense roll.
Also, it contains 2 additional units from HBG (to get a more complete historical roster of weapons) such as:
Mechanized Artillery A2-3 D2-3 M2 which becomes a substantial and competitive units at 5 IPCs,
Escort Carrier D1, carrying 1 plane (Fg or TcB) (1/2 ratio of Fleet Carrier capacity) with Anti-Sub Vessel capacity same as Destroyer.
So, now you get a simpler (nearer OOB than above post) complete A&A units historical roster incremented scaled by 3 IPCs for surface warships, and a smoother game mechanics.
It is as balance (within itself, IMO) and as close as possible from historical feel dynamics (Battle of Atlantic) without too much sacrifice toward complexity.
This is a summary of their special abilities (some are house rules I already used and tested):
ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY A0 D1 CM1 Cost 4, 1 hit,
Each round, up to 2 preemptive defense @1 against up to 2 planes, whichever the lesser, works similar to OOB AAA but can defend each combat round.
Stop any blitz, and defend itself @1 against enemy’s ground units, if no attacking air unit is present.
Can move during combat move phase, can be taken as casualty (owner’s choice).
INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M1 Cost 3
Get +1A if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery
MECHANIZED INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M2 Cost 4,
Get +1 if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery
Can Blitz when paired 1:1 with a Tank
ARTILLERY A2 D2 M1 Cost 4
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry
(MECHANIZED ARTILLERY) (Self-Propelled Artillery / Assault Gun) A2-3 D2-3 M2 Cost 5 added for completeness
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry when paired 1:1 with.
Tank Hunter as a Tank Support capacity: gets +1A/D when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
Both bonus can work at the same time.
TANK A3 D3 M2 Cost 6
Can Blitz
Allow Mechanized Infantry or Mechanized Artillery to Blitz on 1 on 1 basis or a 1:1:1 basis.
_Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
Both bonus can apply.
SUBMARINES A2 first strike D1 M2 Cost 5
Surprise Strike, always on when attacking
Submerge, instead of rolling for a Surprise Strike attack (blocked by ASV on a 1:1 basis for the first combat round only),
Stealth Movement: No Hostile Sea-Zone (except ASV can block Submarine Stealth movement on 1:1 basis),
Cannot hit airplanes,
Cannot hit submarines,
Can be hit by planes, doesn’t require an Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Reality wrecking destroyer rules need a revamp…
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34169.msg1372793#msg1372793
Re: G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36518.msg1458117#msg1458117
DESTROYER A2 D2 M2 Cost 6
Anti-Sub Vessel:
Cancel Sub’s Submerge on 1 DD:1 Sub basis for the first combat round only
(When it occurs, defending Subs rolls a Defense @1 in the first round, and any surviving Subs can submerge at the beginning of the second combat round.)
Cancel Sub’s Stealth Movement on 1 DD: 1 Sub basis for Combat or Non Combat Move, all additional Sub units can perform a Stealth Movement as usual.
(1942.2 or G40.2 ESCORT CARRIER) A0 D1 M2 Cost 7, 1 hit, added for completeness
Carry 1 Fighter or 1 Tactical Bomber,
Anti-Sub Vessel, working the same as a Destroyer.
TRANSPORT A0 D0 regular AADef@1 up to 1 plane per TP, whichever the lesser, M2 Cost 8, 1 hit
and each transport unit can be taken individually as casualty.
As long as their is still 1 TP remaining, it can roll this single defense @1 against plane.
If no enemy’s plane, 1 Transport per round can escape, beginning at the end of the second combat round.
Must be escorted by a warship when making an amphibious assault in an enemy’s Submarines infested SZ, so to be able to ignore them/ or fight them with combat units.
Otherwise, Submarines and Transports may be ignored during Transport Combat Move or Non Combat Move.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1373212#msg1373212
Re: G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36518.msg1460382#msg1460382
CRUISER A3 D3 M3 Cost 9
Shore bombardment @3
Gives +1 Move to any surface vessel (TP, DD, CVE, CV, BB) paired 1:1 with
Re: G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36518.msg1459514#msg1459514
G40.2 and 1942.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D2 M2 Cost 12, 2 hits
Carry 2 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
BATTLESHIP A4 D4 M2 Cost 15, 2 hits
Shore bombardment @4
FIGHTER A3 D4 M4, SBR A2 D2 Cost 8
Air combat unit, Fighter as an Air Superiority aircraft: All “1” and “2” rolls are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available, then AAA, and finally other kind of units (owner’s choice).
Fighter as part of an extended Air Defense System:
1942.2, 1 Fg can scramble from an Air Base/Victory City.
SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2.
Can hit unsubmerged submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
TACTICAL BOMBER A4 D3 M4 Cost 10
All “1” rolls are allocated to any aircraft OR ground units of your choice,
All “2” rolls are allocated to any ground units of your choice.
This can makes for Tactical Bomber as a “Dive Bomber” and “Tank Buster”:
1942.2, 1 TcB can scramble from an Air Base/Victory City.
SBR/TcBR Attack @1 first strike,
Allowed to do escort mission of Strategic Bomber without doing Tactical Bombing Raid on Air Base or Naval Base,
Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
Cannot do interception mission on defense,
TcBR damage: 1D6.
Can hit unsubmerged submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
Strategic BOMBER A4 D1 M6 Cost 10
All “1” rolls are allocated to any aircraft OR ground units of your choice.
Strategic Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1 first strike against up to 2 fighters, whichever the lesser, similar to AAA.
SBR/TBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
If destroyed by IC’s, AB’s or NB’s AA gun, a minimum SBR damage apply: 2 IPCs.
No damage if destroyed by Fighter interceptor.
Can hit unsubmerged submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Rethinking Air Units
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34502.msg1331015#msg1331015
SBR/TcBR escort and intercept combat values:
Fighter: Attack 2 Defense 2
Tactical Bomber: Attack 1 first strike Defense 0
Strategic Bomber: Attack 1 first strike , as AA gun against up to 2 Fgs, Defense 0
Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
I would allow 2 types of defensive maneuvers for aircraft.
DEFENSIVE MANEUVERS allowed for 2 or 3 types of aircraft:
Aerial Retreat for attacking planes (all aircrafts can retreat while letting ground units pursuing battle),
Limited landing in a just conquered territory (which includes at least 1 ground unit): 1 plane (either Fighter or Tactical Bomber), as long as each unit can provide 1 extra movement point for this special landing.
These features and combat values have also been summarized in the attached document below and a modified set-up for 1942.2 is also available. There is also a correction for AAA cost at 4 instead of 3 IPCs.
AA_Baron Munchhausen units & set-up charts for 1942 2ndEd_1941_AA50.doc_
Hey Baron,
There are some really good ideas here, thanks for posting all your research and rules in one place. I would like to go over it this weekend and pick my favorite aspects… don’t suppose any of this has been play tested has it?.
Good work!
Hi YG,
some rules have been tried and other don’t.
If you have some specific items in view I can put further details.
Hope you will like the Word document.
I’m actually working on Word version of OOB 1940 Global set-up in two pages.
Hey, Baron… whatever happened to the anti-tank gun (http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35315.75 ) ?
Did you scrap that unit, or is it just waiting to be implemented later?
But everything here looks nice, I will try to playtest this and tell you more about what I think.
There was already many changes suggested in the Revised Thread, adding Marines or Elite Infantry was more interesting than another defensive unit.
There is already many big changes to try with my actual roster.
Convoy Raid and reduced cost for ships is amongst the ones which can affect radically balance.
With Subs combat ability change, there is already many things to try.
Hope, you will be able to test it somehow.
I will appreciate any feedback, for sure.
**If I want to play with Fg, TcB, Medium Bomber and Heavy Bomber,
what can be the ability of Medium Bomber between TcB and StB (heavy)?
Were they used to chase Subs? More than Strat Bomber?
-Have they better defensive machine guns against other planes than TacB but less than Heavy strat**?
Below is what I have in mind for change from previous values and to reduced to reasonable range heavy strat bomber and medium. Dark Skies showed that range and projection of power is to be limited for bombers.
This is made for 3 planes carrier game.
FIGHTER A2 D2-3 M4, same in SBR Cost 6
Air combat unit, Fighter as an Air Superiority aircraft: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available, then AAA, and finally other kind of units.
Fighter as part of an extended Air Defense System:
1 Fighter units receive +1 Defense if protecting a territory with an operational Air Base, (for 1942.2, 2 Fgs can scramble from an Air Base/Victory City instead.)
SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even Defend @3 for 1 Fg if an operational Air Base is present.
Can scramble in adjacent SZ up to 4 Fgs: 3 defend @2 and 1 defend @3, getting the +1 Defense bonus from an operational Air Base.
Can hit unsubmerged submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
TACTICAL BOMBER A3 D2 M4 Cost 8
All hits are allocated to any ground units of your choice.
This can makes for Tactical Bomber as a “Dive Bomber” and “Tank Buster”:
SBR/TcBR Attack @2,
Allowed to do escort mission for Strategic Bomber without doing Tactical Bombing Raid on Air Base or Naval Base,
Cannot do interception mission on defense,
TcBR damage: 1D6.
Can hit unsubmerged submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
Medium BOMBER
Attack 2** AA1*
Defense 1
Move 6
Cost 8
*In regular combat, if any enemy’s aircraft, gets an additional Attack @1 against aircraft, each combat round.
All hits are allocated to any ground units of your choice
Strategic Bombing Raid
SBR/ TBR : Attack @1
SBR/ TBR damage: 1D6 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
Can hit unsubmerged submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
**Antisub air search and destruction (attacking sub by itself, with no DD to block Sub): on a 2 or less roll hit submarine before it submerge.
Heavy Strategic BOMBER
Attack 4 AA1*
Defense 1
Move 6
Cost 10
*In regular combat, if any enemy’s aircraft, gets an additional Attack 1 against aircraft, each combat round.
Strategic Bombing Raid
SBR/ TBR : Attack @1 first strike against up to 2 fighters, whichever the lesser, similar to AAA.
SBR/ TBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
Can hit unsubmerged submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
Summary of SBR/TcBR escort and intercept combat values:
Fighter: Attack 2 Defense 2 or 3 (+1 to 1 Fg from an operational Air Base)
Tactical Bomber: Attack 2 Defense 0
Bomber Medium: Attack 1 Defense 0
Strategic Bomber Heavy: Attack 1 first strike, as AA gun against up to 2 Fgs, Defense 0
AA_Baron Munchhausen units & set-up charts for 1942 2ndEd_1941_AA50.doc
Do you think a PBY Catalina can be categorized as a medium bomber for game-play ?
Or it still be part of the long range and stronger payload of heavy bomber?
Loads: 4,000 lb (1,814 kg) of bombs or depth charges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_PBY_Catalina#Specifications_.28PBY-5A.29
From what I understand, PBY Catalina payload was within medium bomber allowance but the range and length of the plane is in the lower spec of heavy bomber, am I right?
Do you think a PBM Mariner can be a medium bomber in game play?
Loads: 4,000 lb (1,800 kg) of bombs or depth charges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_PBM_Mariner#Specifications_.28PBM-1.29
For example, a B-25 Mitchell Medium Bomber has a load of:
Hardpoints: 2,000 lb (900 kg) ventral shackles to hold one external Mark 13 torpedo
Bombs: 3,000 lb (1,360 kg) bombs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_B-25_Mitchell#Specifications_.28B-25H.29
B-24 Liberator has such a bomb load:
Short range (<400 mi [640 km]): 8,000 pounds (3,600 kg)
Long range (<800 mi [1,300 km]): 5,000 pounds (2,300 kg)
Very long range (<1,200 mi [1,900 km]): 2,700 pounds (1,200 kg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_B-24_Liberator#Specifications_.28B-24J.29
And a Heavy Bomber B-17 Flying Fortress can load these bombs:
Short range missions (<400 mi): 8,000 lb (3,600 kg)
Long range missions (≈800 mi): 4,500 lb (2,000 kg)
Overload: 17,600 lb (7,800 kg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-17_Flying_Fortress#Specifications_.28B-17G.29
Heavy Bomber Long Range Aircraft B-29 Superfortress can load up:
Bombs: 20,000 lb (9,000 kg) standard loadout.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-29_Superfortress#Specifications_.28B-29.29
Finally, Heavy Bomber Avro Lancaster can load up:
Maximum normal bomb load: 14,000 lb (6,350 kg) or 22,000 lb (9,979 kg) Grand Slam with modifications to bomb bay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Lancaster#Specifications_.28Lancaster_I.29
That idea is to get such Medium Bomber (with 2 engines sculpt) a special “historical ability” to be able to directly attack submarines like they were blocked by Destroyer unit :
Medium BOMBER
Attack 2** AA1*
Defense 1
Move 6
Cost 8
*In regular combat, if any enemy’s aircraft, gets an additional Attack @1 against aircraft, each combat round.
All hits are allocated to any ground units of your choice
Can hit unsubmerged submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
**Antisub air search and destruction (attacking sub by itself, with no DD to block Sub): on a 2 or less roll, hit submarine before it submerges.
-Does Medium bomber have better defensive machine guns against other planes than Tactical Bombers, but less than Heavy Bombers?
Here is finally my modifed set-up for G40 on two pages.
It also includes OOB set-up with the same presentation.
It will work for A2 D2 C7 Fg and TcB A3 D2 C8
Hope it can be useful eventually…
The conversion rule of thumb is:
Conversion Table (to Fighter A2 D2 C7 & TcB A3 D2 C8):
Allies: +11 Fgs + 3 TcBs +1 AAA vs Axis: +8 Fgs + 6 TcBs
Soviet Union: 2 Fgs+ 1 TcB= +1 Fighter +1 TcB
United Kingdom: 6 Fgs+ 2 TcBs = +3 Fighters +1 TcB
United States: 6 Fgs + 1 TcB = +3 Fighters +1 TcB
ANZAC: 3 Fgs = +2 Fighters
China: 1 Fg = +1 Fighter + 1 AAA
France: 2 Fgs = +1 Fighter
Germany: 5 Fgs + 5 TcBs = +3 Fighters + 2 TcBs
Japan: 9 Fgs + 8 TcBs = +4 Fighters + 4 TcBs
Italy: 2 Fgs = +1 Fighter
OOB G40 Set up chart and Air Intensive Set Up.doc
OOB G40 Set up chart and Air Intensive Set Up.pdf
its blank ( your file)
@Imperious:
its blank ( your file)
Nothing seems to work. Neither Word 2003 nor PDF version of it…
Is it my computer?
I even tried older version of above files and doesn’t work.
EDIT:
It doesn’t seem because I can send my files by email to my TAB4 and read them.
So, it is like A&A.ORG is not uploading files correctly.
I send good ones, but when I try to download it is empty.
Also, the number of K on files appear correctly on the post. (223 Ko .DOC and 131 Ko .PDF)
You found a problem Imperious Leader.
perhaps you use dropbox and just provide a link rather than use the storage space from this site?
@Imperious:
perhaps you use dropbox and just provide a link rather than use the storage space from this site?
@P@nther:
@Baron:
There seems to be a problem with downloading new files.
Yes, it has started at least 24 hours ago. No more free space for uploading the files.
Please see
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=39413.0
and
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=39411.0Looks like djensen needs to free up some space…
@Imperious:
its blank ( your file)
Finally, problem solved.
Baron, I enjoy reading about your ideas, and I think you have a keen grasp of both A&A strategy and the principles of game design. However, I usually do not look at your posts about alternate unit charts, because I find them very difficult to read! Here are some of the reasons why I struggle to read your unit charts:
You often describe multiple versions of multiple units for multiple maps in the same post. It’s not always clear when you’re shifting from map to map, from version to version, or from unit to unit.
You use so much bold font that it doesn’t work for me as a way of adding emphasis; instead the test just feels jagged and broken up.
You spread out your commentary and analysis, putting some of it right next to each unit, some of it underneath each unit, and some of it at the bottom of your post or in another post. This makes it hard to compare rules from one unit to the next, and it also makes it hard for me to read and absorb your analysis.
You do not use table formatting, colors, font sizes, or bullets to help show the structure of your posts.
I am pointing all of this out not to be mean, but because I am interested in your ideas, and I would gladly read them and comment on them if they were put into a format that made them a little easier for me to digest. Obviously you do get plenty of people commenting on your posts anyway, so if you don’t feel like changing your style, that is totally fine! I just wanted to share my concerns and give you a chance to respond accordingly.
Thanks for the editorial comments.
I agree there is too much information in to short notice.
If you want to start somewhere, just download the first files.
In it, you get all the player’s sheet I use in game to know what a unit can do and to what cost and everything else.
There is no commentary in it, only rules and abilities.
Eventually, I will make another thread with the most recent development from Redesign project and play-tests.
This is a long work in progress develop along five years.
Thanks! I hadn’t even seen that link! The Word document is very clean and well-organized; very easy to read.
THE GOOD: I like your land units; I think the mech. inf. + mech. art are very elegant and well-balanced. I also like the air bases, air fields, and the spread of movement ranges on the various types of planes. It’s neat to have tac bombers + med. strategic bombers + heavy strategic bombers.
THE BAD: You and I have talked about this a little bit before, but I am still not convinced that bombers should be killing fighters with first strike @ 1 during dogfights. I think A1 is already pretty generous for a bomber during a dogfight against a fighter’s D2. I defer to your superior number-crunching skills; I’m sure you’ve worked the math out properly. I just think it “feels” wrong to have a bomber be almost as powerful in air combat as a dedicated air-superiority fighter plane. Also, it looks like you’ve made submarines 1 IPC cheaper and given them a convoy raiding ability, without any real compensating disadvantages. You’ve changed the submerge ability, but on balance I think the submerge ability is still equally powerful. I think submarines are already a pretty good buy OOB at 6 IPCs, in part because they are the cheapest ship and therefore often the best available fodder. Making them even cheaper and more powerful seems like it will force players to buy hordes of submarines to protect their navies even if they’re not much interested in stealth and/or offense. I would rather see cheap destroyers, or maybe a DE class boat. Something like…
Destroyer Escort (DE): C5 A0 D1 M2, cancels one sub’s special abilities
Submarine (SS): C6 A2 D1 M2, submerge, first strike, and convoy raid
Transport (TT): C7 A0 D0 M3, can carry two land units, may take as casualty
Destroyer (DD): C8 A1 D2 M2, cancels one sub’s special abilities, 1 AA shot @ 1
Cruiser (CA): C9 A3 D3 M3, supports unloading land unit with one bombard @ 3.
THE INTERESTING: I like your air transport unit, and I think 5 move is exactly correct, but it might be slightly overpriced at 8 IPCs. I think I would prefer a 7 IPC price. Similarly, I like your carrier escort, but I’m not sure if it gives good value for money, especially if the enemy has few or no subs. When would I need to support one plane in the ocean? In real life, America and Japan needed escort carriers for protecting relatively minor troop transports and supply convoys in secondary theaters, e.g., for mopping up the Philippines, or for taking the rest of the Caroline Islands after Truk fell. But on the Axis & Allies maps, especially the smaller maps like 1942.2, there really aren’t any territories I can see that are both large enough to be worth sending a transport, and small enough that you could effectively guard that transport with only an escort carrier. Where do you think players will wind up using your escort carriers? I bet there’s a use for them somewhere, I just don’t see it myself. Finally, I don’t think letting tactical bombers hit an air target of their choice on a roll of 1 is interesting or important enough to justify the extra complication in the rules – all the bombers should get the same special ability, i.e., if they roll a 1, they can choose their target. If you want to limit that target to land (and sea?) then that’s fine, but limit it for all the bombers, not just some of them.
THE NITPICKY: Cruisers give +1 move when paired 1:1 with a surface vessel, but cruisers themselves still only have a move of 2. Typo? Also, I think historically the main British air base in the Middle East was in Trans-Jordan, not in Egypt.
In general, these are a fun set of alternate units, and if one of my friends ever assembles a set of all of the necessary miniatures, I would be happy to playtest them! Thanks for sharing. :-)
Thanks for this in depth analysis.
I will return read this post once I will get a clear idea about what is my inspired roster from Redesign.
Even Mech Artillery has been under microscope because Barney introduced it in G40 Triple A.
The 5 IPCs A0 StBs provided me a total paradigm shift.
Which is not included. Now StB my C5 will attack @1 against C6 or C7 Fg A2 D2.
There is two sets of rules according to which Fg you prefer.
Probably, Fg A3 D4 C10, would roll “2” or less to hit plane.
This TcB associated with special roll is not satisfying, “1” doing something, “2” something else not KISS.
On Destroyers vs Subs, you need see that if Subs is 5 IPCs, DDs is only 6 IPCs.
Pretty simpler to use.
Again Barney is developing on Triple A something a bit different but it can somehow give the feel of more elusive Subs.
DD A1 D1 M2 C5, with an anti-sub (patrol) roll both offense and defense @1.
It is almost ready.
Also, it looks like you’ve made submarines 1 IPC cheaper and given them a convoy raiding ability, without any real compensating disadvantages. You’ve changed the submerge ability, but on balance I think the submerge ability is still equally powerful. I think submarines are already a pretty good buy OOB at 6 IPCs, in part because they are the cheapest ship and therefore often the best available fodder.
One thing to know about Subs A2first strike A1 C5 is that loosing them on defense as fodder, is a pretty good news to the attacker. Because, if they submerge, they will gets a much better attack factor than DDs, and for 5 IPCs, pretty cheap to buy. Also, you cannot use them as fodder against other sub.
So, on offence, it is better to lose DDs because A2 first strike should be preserved.
On defense, it is better to use your Sub later, hence Submerging eventually.
And Subs cannot hit subs so you must pick DD as fodder instead.
