Worst Case for Germany

[DarthMaximus]

I would normally agree with that, but this opponent goes US Pac strat.  Well at least he has in our previous 3 games and usually goes by the philosophy of not letting Japan just expand without attacking her.

I can almost count on a UK/US landing in Alg in rd 1, counter of Egy if I have 1-2 units left (or a UK unification in Sz 30 with all UK ME/Pac ships (with loaded trn)) and US will buy either 2 ACs (with ftr) or an AC and BB for the Wus sz.

I’m open to the counter of Ukr even if it cost me rt or tanks, but I need to either immediately cripple the Allied fleet in the Atlantic (in rds 1-3) or play for the long haul which means I’ll need a commitment to Afr in rds 1-3 (or more).

I guess what I’m getting at would be, would an ac/trn for the Med work, or just ignore it and do the best with what I’ve got and go 1 ftr, 11 inf and indeed play def.
Maybe 1 ftr a rd, plus inf.

I don’t mind playing def with Germany, I’m very good at deadzoning/trapping and trading, but if that is the case I need a way to counter the US in the Pac.  He’ll buy 1 AC and 2 ftrs a round with US.

I still haven’t found the best way to counter that (even after 3 games).

He’ll also unload in Alg on UK/US 2.  Which is why I’m inclined to buy a ftr a rd instead of tanks.  And it makes an African campaing very costly to the Germans which is why I want to see if the commitment is worth it, long term.  I can’t afford any bad purchases.

Oh yeah, he’ll most likely buy air on UK 1.

[DarthMaximus]

@Nix:

Your bad starts means you must Survive with germany untill japan saves the day.

2 ways of doing that.

1. Use my Airforce strat with Germany (se strategy thread)

2. buy 10 Inf G1, 10 Art G2, 10 Arm (or 8 depending on succes) on G3, and pray you break Russia   (tried that yesterday, and was wiped…  But to my defense i must say that out of 18 2´s i only hit 3, and russia hit a lot better.)

And what are the odds that i hit 1 out of 9 Arm, and my enemy hits 8 of 9 2´s?…

but both should give you a great chance of taking Russia out, and if need be keep the armour in Eastern europe and you will be in a good possition to kick some US/UK butt in Normandie counter attack, and then wait for Japan.

You snuck in this post before my other response, but there is a high probability that US will go after Japan.

I’ve tried the “ignore it”, I’ve tried the “spend defensively only - minimal ship buys” and I’ve tried the “almost match him ship for ship” and have faired poorly each time.  And that was without Germany starting in such a hole.

[Jennifer]

Not saying it’s a good or bad idea, but if you’re desperate for Africa, why not get a transport in CMD?

[DarthMaximus]

@Jennifer:

Not saying it’s a good or bad idea, but if you’re desperate for Africa, why not get a transport in CMD?

I’m open to it, but it is a sitting duck (2 Rus ftrs in Cauc) without a purchase of a capital ship for protection, unless I bypass Egy on G1 which I don’t really want to do.  Not sure if I want spend 20 IPC on Med ships.

[squirecam]

@DarthMaximus:

I don’t mind playing def with Germany, I’m very good at deadzoning/trapping and trading, but if that is the case I need a way to counter the US in the Pac.  He’ll buy 1 AC and 2 ftrs a round with US.

I still haven’t found the best way to counter that (even after 3 games).

With that buy, USA has 2 fighters, BB, AC, DD, Transport (19 def). Japan can have 6 fighters Bomber, 2 BB, DD, and sub or transport (32-35)

Essentially, if you are SURE he plans that buy, Hit the USA WC fleet while you have such great odds.

Squirecam

[Amon-Sul]

@Nix:

Your bad starts means you must Survive with germany untill japan saves the day.)

2. buy 10 Inf G1, 10 Art G2, 10 Arm (or 8 depending on succes) on G3, and pray you break Russia   (tried that yesterday, and was wiped…  But to my defense i must say that out of 18 2´s i only hit 3, and russia hit a lot better.)

i think that this want pass especially if Russia buy lots of infantry, if it goes for thanks, artillerys than you have a chance

[Amon-Sul]

@DarthMaximus:

I still haven’t found the best way to counter that (even after 3 games).

why dont you try placing a inf or 2 in Ukraine-i mean the bid

[Jennifer]

@DarthMaximus:

@Jennifer:

Not saying it’s a good or bad idea, but if you’re desperate for Africa, why not get a transport in CMD?

I’m open to it, but it is a sitting duck (2 Rus ftrs in Cauc) without a purchase of a capital ship for protection, unless I bypass Egy on G1 which I don’t really want to do.  Not sure if I want spend 20 IPC on Med ships.

Why arn’t you bidding 2 infantry or an infantry/artillery into Libya?  If you are, you don’t need to by-pass taking out Egypt can can leave your BB/Trn in CMD.

[nooob]

In this case I think you might have to rely on your dice G1.  If you have 1 extra INF in Libya send the med fleet west(Egypt is gonna be tough).  You know he’s gonna go to SZ12 great! Make him pay for Algeria.  Have you airforce in range as well as BBS, SUB, TRN then you can send his atlantic fleet to the bottom easily.  A buy of 1ACC, 1FIG, 1 TRN +INF will simultaneously shut down the atlantic and force the UK to go defensive.  Then turn you attention to those pesky Russians. Unfortunatly you now have to play D on the eastern front. Â

[DarthMaximus]

@squirecam:

@DarthMaximus:

I don’t mind playing def with Germany, I’m very good at deadzoning/trapping and trading, but if that is the case I need a way to counter the US in the Pac.  He’ll buy 1 AC and 2 ftrs a round with US.

I still haven’t found the best way to counter that (even after 3 games).

With that buy, USA has 2 fighters, BB, AC, DD, Transport (19 def). Japan can have 6 fighters Bomber, 2 BB, DD, and sub or transport (32-35)

Essentially, if you are SURE he plans that buy, Hit the USA WC fleet while you have such great odds.

Squirecam

Good idea.  I’ve been think of being more aggressive against the US.  I think positioning my fleet better on J1 will help, as you suggest.

@Amon-Sul:

@DarthMaximus:

I still haven’t found the best way to counter that (even after 3 games).

why dont you try placing a inf or 2 in Ukraine-i mean the bid

Too late for that.  :-)
Although we play split-bid limit.  So in order to get 2 inf, I’d have to bid 12.
I have considered that 8 bid is too low to begin with (with split bids).
But I like the challange, I just don’t like the great dice Russia got.  :-)

@Jennifer:

@DarthMaximus:

@Jennifer:

Not saying it’s a good or bad idea, but if you’re desperate for Africa, why not get a transport in CMD?

I’m open to it, but it is a sitting duck (2 Rus ftrs in Cauc) without a purchase of a capital ship for protection, unless I bypass Egy on G1 which I don’t really want to do. Not sure if I want spend 20 IPC on Med ships.

Why arn’t you bidding 2 infantry or an infantry/artillery into Libya? If you are, you don’t need to by-pass taking out Egypt can can leave your BB/Trn in CMD.

Split bid limit.  Probably the last time I’ll play with it.  And as I said above, I’m aware that 8 bid with split just might be too low.

@nooob:

In this case I think you might have to rely on your dice G1.  If you have 1 extra INF in Libya send the med fleet west(Egypt is gonna be tough).  You know he’s gonna go to SZ12 great! Make him pay for Algeria.  Have you airforce in range as well as BBS, SUB, TRN then you can send his atlantic fleet to the bottom easily.  A buy of 1ACC, 1FIG, 1 TRN +INF will simultaneously shut down the atlantic and force the UK to go defensive.  Then turn you attention to those pesky Russians. Unfortunatly you now have to play D on the eastern front.

Not bad.  Kill the DD in Sz 15 with ftrs right?

[Jennifer]

Yea, I hate split bid. :(

Of course, I did find my first sucker who let me get a bid of 28 (DD/AC in SZ 8)  I only put it in as a joke too!  Guess he REALLY didn’t want to be the Axis!

[ajgundam5]

Hey just a question but if you lose Egypt which does happen occasionally do you as Germany abandon Africa? and what do you do with your Med fleet assuming UK pulled its Indian Fleet into Med?

[Guest]

Darth, if you are REALLY interested in going after UK’s income…

Buy 2 AC and a TRN.  1 AC each Med/Baltic, the TRN to the Med.  Load both with FIGs, and pull back to Eastern Europe against Russia.
Have Japan push through India as hard as possible (IC FIC, TRN from SZ60 to Phillpines grab 2 INF, offload to FIC, stack FIGs in Phillipines)
Russia may gain ground in Manch, then you come back J2, build TRNs, and then wipe out the Russian advance (which will be unsupported by reinforcements).

With dual fleets, you can take Africa pretty easilly, hold Norway for a while (or at least trade it) and then work up your INF/ART combos (since Russia will be closing in, no need for speed) and add a TRN a round.

US won;t be able to risk an all-out in Africa with Sea Lion being a real threat, that should give you time to secure Africa.

Japan drives on Persia via India, Germany drives on persia via Egypt and T-J, and they reinforce each other at Persia, giving Russia a new headache to deal with as Germany starts pushing back in central europe.

[nooob]

“Not bad.  Kill the DD in Sz 15 with ftrs right?”

Im not sure you can…
This plan relies on all your planes to be in range of SZ 12 in order to minimize your losses against the allied boats. So that destroyer will most likely stay floating. Unfortunately…

Like I said, your gonna have a tough fight for Egypt. If your dice dont turn around its better not to prolong the agony.

[DarthMaximus]

First, thanks for all the ideas.

Here’s an Update,

I decided to go with 1 BB and 6 inf.  The BB went to the Baltic.
Yes, yes, yes, I bought a bb, there were a few reasons, but the main one was I’ve always wanted to buy a BB fro Germany.   :-)

Okay, here was the thinking, I figured the Med fleet usually survives until about rd 3 so I decided against buying for that and I picked BB over AC+trn b/c
1)  It gives me a free hit on Def
2)  I thought the bombardment might help eventuallly in WE, Nor and Kar so I won’t have to commit planes, as well as giving me a 4 on Off.  I do plan on eventually attacking in the Atlantic, and AC/trns are strickly defensive, and ftrs can always land on WE.
3)  I didn’t want to commit to landing planes in Sz 5 yet
4)  I think it is easier to add an AC later, pending his move

I realize this means giving up much in the East but hey, I’ really wanted to try this with my Japan Move, which I’ll get to in a minute.

However the dice gods dealt another blow to Germany in SZ 13 where both a sub and ftr were killed.  so, I’m down to 4 ftrs + bom.  Ugh.

I took Egy with 1 inf, 2 arm left over.

So UK countered with a AC, 1 ftr buy.  Went one trn to Alg (with 1 inf, 1 ftr)
Didn’t counter Egy but move 3 inf to Ken (2 ind, 1 safr) and put his fleet off the southern coast of Afr and moved a 4th inf to Aus from NZ.

Now for Japan,
I bought 1 trn, 1 IC, 3 inf.
I took a vacated Ind with 1 inf and sent 6 inf, 2 ftrs to Chi, took out the 1 inf on Bury and blasted Pearl.
I moved my entire fleets to Pearl and Sol sz, bom is on Wake and 2 more ftrs on Japan.

So I have
Pearl:  1 dd, 1 bb, 1 ac, 2 ftrs
Sol sz:  1 bb, 1 ac, 2 ftrs
Wake:  1 inf, 1 bom
Jap: 2 ftrs, 4 inf, 1 rt,
Jap sz (outer):  3 trns

Now he went but I haven’t been able to check the map so this is off his non-com moves.

US bought 2 AC, 1 ftr, and I think 1 was place in Wus sz and 1 in Eus sz.
I’ll have to double check that.

Russia Crushed Ukr and is poised to hold, so I’ll claim what I can but go full defensive mode, while I try to put pressure on UK and US.

If it is possible I’ll sink his dd/trn off of Alg and reclaim that, while blitzing a tank south and forcing the UK troops in Per/Ken to make a choice.

It is going to get dicey on Germany’s eastern boarder, but I think I may be able to keep the US pre-occupied with Japan now that I have the initative and can move on my terms.

The question then becomes can Germany just hold out for a while.

Japan is poised to eliminate any Naval threat and take HI, Ala (or both), while still getting a small defensive force to Asia to claim Sin, Sfe, Yak.  As well as place 3 more units in Man (location of IC)
He continued his defensive retreat to focus on Germany with Russia, so the offensive power isn’t needed in Asia, hence the going after the US west Coast.

And just to show what type of player I’m playing with, I think he is real good btw, but he routinely will send 2 ftrs after lone inf and on UK 1 sent his 2 ftrs, 1 bom after my G inf in Kar and took him out.

I can’t condone moves like that, not in rd 1, but it is very effective for him, he’ll do the same with lone G inf protecting Belo, Ukr or wherever.  The deadly planes vs. inf moves.  Generally too high risk for me, esp early on, but really discouraging when it leaves you thinking “if only my inf would have hit!”

[DarthMaximus]

Correction.

Just went back and read his US moves again, the US Pac Fleet is in the GOC sz, not the Wus sz.

Without looking at the map, I’ll have to assume that is the Sz right below Mex on the Pacific side of the board.

So that rules out a strike on his fleet on J2, he has 1 trn, 1 dd, 1 ac, 1 bb, 2 ftrs there, but it opens the door for me to unify my fleet at HI and get two BB shots and take relatively easily, while getting as many as 7 more units to Asia, to continue gaining IPC.

But As long as I can keep his fleet pinned near Mex, that is fine by me, and once again comes down to Germany just getting through the first few rds.

[squirecam]

@DarthMaximus:

Correction.

Just went back and read his US moves again, the US Pac Fleet is in the GOC sz, not the Wus sz.

Without looking at the map, I’ll have to assume that is the Sz right below Mex on the Pacific side of the board.

So that rules out a strike on his fleet on J2, he has 1 trn, 1 dd, 1 ac, 1 bb, 2 ftrs there, but it opens the door for me to unify my fleet at HI and get two BB shots and take relatively easily, while getting as many as 7 more units to Asia, to continue gaining IPC.

But As long as I can keep his fleet pinned near Mex, that is fine by me, and once again comes down to Germany just getting through the first few rds.

Fighters can fly 4 moves, as long as a carrier can pick them up (if they die, the carrier does not have to move).

That SZ is 2 from HI and you have 2 carriers and the bomber. Why cant you attack ??

Squirecam

Edit - I see 2 fighters are on Japan… So they wont reach, correct?