i was thinking why when considering LHTR 1.3 is the best play on 9 VC
beacuse i think when add this to the biding rule, the overall chances to win are slightly in the axis favour
i havent played even near the games as you did but i still have this thought
plese post your comment
Nothing but total world domination for me!
:-)??
The reason 9 is because it is too easy for the Axis to get Karelia and India for a total of 8. The Allies just have no chance to both defend one of those VCs AND put together a combat force to destroy Europe.
Meanwhile, 9 is a lot. That means you probably have Russia, England or Western United States and that means the Axis are probably so dominant that the odds of an allied recovery are very small.
so you want to say if you achieve nine , you will sooner or later achieve 10, its just a matter of time
or i get it wrong
Actually, if you achieve 9, more likely then not you’ll get all 12 eventually and the rest of the world.
i dont know , maybe you are right
but one thing is shure , when playing on 10 if two experienced players meet it could take ages
but i still say ,playing on nine is a little bit in the favour of the axis
OK, here is why 9…
As mentioned, 8 is just too darn easy. For the Axis, a quick grab of Karelia and India does the trick. For the Allies a bit harder, but a well timed Island Hop to grab Phillipines and Western can do the trick too (if India was defended and Russians sent West Russia Stack to liberate Karelia. 8 VC is a tactical win, but far from strategic victory. I have LOST games where I hit 8 VC early…
10 VC…
As the Axis, that means Karelia, India, Russia and either London or Western US are held by the Axis. Sorry, but if both Moscow and London have fallen, the Allies are way more than toast. In fact, you are only a few turns from 12 VC at that point, with no way in hell that the Allies can come back form that (remember, the adjudication for the number of VC’s is at the end of a full turn, after US has moved, so if Western US is held by the Axis AFTER USA’s move, then the Axis is BUILDING there next round, so much for DC…
9 VC…
This is a strategic victory. For the Axis to get 9, they have to take 3 from the allies and lose NONE. That means that they have Karelia, India, and Moscow (usually) and still control Western, Southern, Germany, Kwang, Phillipines and Tokyo. In other words, Russia is out of it, and the Allies ahve yet to make a single real gain against the axis in either Europe or the Pacific. Economically the Axis is WAY ahead at this point. Tactically, they are also way ahead, sicne Germany now only has to face the Atlantic, and Japan is free to go cross-pacific (or finish consolidating in Asia and Africa, trashing UK’s income to about 12 IPC’s). From here on out, it is simply playing it out.
And if it is NOT Moscow that falls as VC #9, or if the Allies have managed to take liberate Karelia or India, it is actually worse for the Allies. That means that either the US or UK has fallen completely, or that the US is about to fall because Western US is enemy held and will be building there before USA’s next turn.
From the Allied perspective it means that eitehr Germany is GONE (Paris, Rome and Berlin having fallen) AND Japan does nto hold Calcutta; or it means that the Axis is bottled up in their capitals, with massive IPC and territory loss (ripe to be bombed to zero produciton while Allies just keep ferrying in troops for the final strike).
It would take a MASSIVE screw up and/or and extreme series of complete dice fracks for either side to come back from being down to 3 VC’s.
ok you have more exp here then i do
but somehow i have the impression that there are bigger chances in; Leningrad-Moscow-Calcutta
then in;
Paris-Rome-Berlin
Tokyo-Manilla-Shangai
or the combination of this
but i am probably wrong, its just my impression, nothing more
In the other combination, it puts more NATIONS out of the game.
If Berlin falls, the Axis is half out of it. same for Tokyo.
If Moscow and London fall, 2 Allies out of 2 are toast.
But remeber, with the first 3 cities, INCOME also comes into play.
If Leningrad, Moscow and Calcutta have fallen, and Paris, Rome, Berlin, Sahnhai, Manila, and Tokyo are all still Axis controlled…
Then 24 Allied IPC’s are gone due to the loss of Russian territory.
Add in the loss of India.
That is Axis at +27 effective IPC’s (they may not hold all Russian territory yet, but it still is not producing income for the Allies). So the Allies are at around 60-70, the Axis is around 90+ (more likely 100+).
A couple of defensive builds, and the UK and US cannot hope to liberate Moscow, or even make a landing that will “stick” in Europe. A plane or 2 a round as the Axis, and before long thsoe Allied fleets are rusting hulks on the bottom. A few more rounds and the Imperial Navy has 20 TRN’s plus BB’s and AC’s off the coast of LA, and the Kreigsmarine has 20 TRN and BB’s in the North Sea…
ok you ve convinced me
nine is simply the best solution
It’s an M84 thing. :)
:-)??
M84 is shorthand for a way to win Classic.
If the Axis reached an income of 84 IPC’s (a gain of 24 from start) it was an axis win.
Ooops… a gain of 27.
Axis starts with Germany 32, and Japan 25 in Classic.
Yea. As I always called it, M84 (Magic 84, or when Japan and Germany have a combined income of 84 at the END of America’s turn) is a way to steal victory out of the jaws of defeat for the Axis.
(Basically they pull back and set up a massive land grab in areas the Allies cannot get too to get theri 84 points and hope to all the gods of the world and some of the ones we havn’t seen yet that the Allies cannot get them down to 83!)
Not true.
Both sides still need income. And that means the south Pacific and Africa are in play.
Ignore your income in a drive for 9 VC at your own peril…
Let me put it this way…
…here at home, we play with 10 VCs…the only time the capture of Moscow (along with Karelia/India) did NOT lead to an Allied concession was the time that America had managed to destroy the Japanese fleet and occupy Japan itself the turn after Japan took Moscow.
With no ability to build, and no ships left, Japan would have had to have been liberated by Germany…and since Germany had no real navy to speak of, and had failed to take Moscow (resulting in it’s capture by the Japanese), there was quite simply no way for Japan to stay in the game…simply lose ground forces slowly until elminiated.
Unless your in a position to take and HOLD an enemy capital in the same round (or possibly the next round), the fall of Moscow is the end of the Allies.
One of the best ways (read only) to win the game as the Axis without bids in classic…
Or you could just say who ever has 8 VCs at the end of 5 rounds. That’s assuming 1 round = 1 season, 4 seasons/year, Spring 1942 becomes Summer 1943. By then Lenningrad should be liberated and D-Day well on it’s way to being set up.
Otherwise, in an 8 VC, I’m bidding for allies! I want 12 IPC, 4 Infantry in India!
