Nice.
G40 Delta 1st Edition
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Thanks guys, I’m sure this rule will see another edit tonight based on your opinions, right now I’m working on a thread to display the cards I made (of course they’re all drafts and subject to modification before going to print).
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I had a look at your Under Construction page – the cards look great. I have a couple of questions / comments.
Tokyo Express: Can you tell me what Japanese destroyer class the picture shows? It’s hard to tell from the small size of the picture, but it appears to have a tripod bridge strucure and two forward gun turrets, two features I normally associate with battleships.
V-Rockets: The picture shows a V-1. The V-1 wasn’t a rocket, it was a pulse-jet “flying bomb” – what today would be called a cruise missile. The picture should show a V-2 ballistic missile. Come to think of it, the V-2 wasn’t a rocket either, it was a guided missile, so maybe the name of the advantage should be changed. “Rocket” refers either to “rocket engines” (as a motor type) or to unguided rocket weapons (which various WWII ground-attack aircraft carried). The term “V-Weapons” would be the easiest way to resolve the issue.
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@CWO:
I had a look at your Under Construction page – the cards look great. I have a couple of questions / comments.
Tokyo Express: Can you tell me what Japanese destroyer class the picture shows? It’s hard to tell from the small size of the picture, but it appears to have a tripod bridge strucure and two forward gun turrets, two features I normally associate with battleships.
V-Rockets: The picture shows a V-1. The V-1 wasn’t a rocket, it was a pulse-jet “flying bomb” – what today would be called a cruise missile. The picture should show a V-2 ballistic missile. Come to think of it, the V-2 wasn’t a rocket either, it was a guided missile, so maybe the name of the advantage should be changed. “Rocket” refers either to “rocket engines” (as a motor type) or to unguided rocket weapons (which various WWII ground-attack aircraft carried). The term “V-Weapons” would be the easiest way to resolve the issue.
I might let that rocket title technicality slide as most layman, and some amateur historians can use V-Rockets as a blanket term without much fuss. As for the pictures, it may be an American destroyer for all I know, however, finding an artist rendition of every advantage card without a little inaccuracy may prove impossible, so for the purpose of the project, I may need to settle in some cases.
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The Delta Deck thread is now open for comments, thanks…
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@Young:
Thanks guys, I’m sure this rule will see another edit tonight based on your opinions, right now I’m working on a thread to display the cards I made (of course they’re all drafts and subject to modification before going to print).
Actually, I would love to hear/see playtest results for the Coastal Defense rule as it stands. I just want to see if my theories prove true or not.
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@CWO:
Tokyo Express: Can you tell me what Japanese destroyer class the picture shows? It’s hard to tell from the small size of the picture, but it appears to have a tripod bridge strucure and two forward gun turrets, two features I normally associate with battleships.
It looked like an American battleship or maybe Northampton-class cruiser. Definitely not Japanese.
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Actually, I would love to hear/see playtest results for the Coastal Defense rule as it stands. I just want to see if my theories prove true or not.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Rommel once said something very similar to von Rundstedt during one of their endless arguments on whether the expected Allied invasion should be repelled on the beaches or with mobile armour reserves. :lol:
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YG,
I was doing some thinking on the Progressive Advantages. It looks like four of the nations have a “one time only” type of advantage.
As for the United States using the Atom Bomb, I can definitely understand that being a one time use as it will probably end up being the end of whichever Axis they use it on.
Also, the Kamikaze Honor for Japan makes sense to make it one time. You don’t want to provide Japan with endless Kamikazes.
I was thinking that Russia and France should be able to do theirs more than once. They get to 20 points and use their advantage. Afterward, I think they should start over again at 0 points and get to start rolling and adding up points to reach 20 again. Even if they are really lucky and get a 6 every roll, they won’t get the advantage for at least another 4 rounds. In the case of Russia, Germany might have taken Moscow by then. At any rate, it just seems a little unfair to me that Russia and France only get to use their Progressive Advantage just the one time.
In contrast, Germany, England and Italy get to use their advantage for the rest of the game once they reach 20 points.
I actually think Japan and the US should also get to start over at 0 points and roll up to another 20 points for their Progressive Advantages, but since they do have pretty strong ones, perhaps they could be left at one time only. Russia and France just seemed kind of weak to be one time only. -
YG,
I was doing some thinking on the Progressive Advantages. It looks like four of the nations have a “one time only” type of advantage.
As for the United States using the Atom Bomb, I can definitely understand that being a one time use as it will probably end up being the end of whichever Axis they use it on.
Also, the Kamikaze Honor for Japan makes sense to make it one time. You don’t want to provide Japan with endless Kamikazes.
I was thinking that Russia and France should be able to do theirs more than once. They get to 20 points and use their advantage. Afterward, I think they should start over again at 0 points and get to start rolling and adding up points to reach 20 again. Even if they are really lucky and get a 6 every roll, they won’t get the advantage for at least another 4 rounds. In the case of Russia, Germany might have taken Moscow by then. At any rate, it just seems a little unfair to me that Russia and France only get to use their Progressive Advantage just the one time.
In contrast, Germany, England and Italy get to use their advantage for the rest of the game once they reach 20 points.
I actually think Japan and the US should also get to start over at 0 points and roll up to another 20 points for their Progressive Advantages, but since they do have pretty strong ones, perhaps they could be left at one time only. Russia and France just seemed kind of weak to be one time only.KNP,
I really like this idea!! One time only advantages will be allowed to reset and attempt 20 progress points for a chance of the same advantage happening again. Awesome!
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Cool YG. I’m glad you like my idea. So that is good for all of them. I don’t think it would necessarily be too overpowering (even the US using the Atom Bomb). Rolling 1 die would take at a minimum 4 rounds to get to 20, and more likely 5 or 6 rounds.
So, if any of them actually get to use their progressive advantage twice in a game, your looking at a 10-12 round game already. While some think this would be too long and maybe a bit tiring, I think it would also mean it is a really good game and no one has been able to get a real advantage over the other side. -
Cool YG. I’m glad you like my idea. So that is good for all of them. I don’t think it would necessarily be too overpowering (even the US using the Atom Bomb). Rolling 1 die would take at a minimum 4 rounds to get to 20, and more likely 5 or 6 rounds.
So, if any of them actually get to use their progressive advantage twice in a game, your looking at a 10-12 round game already. While some think this would be too long and maybe a bit tiring, I think it would also mean it is a really good game and no one has been able to get a real advantage over the other side.I’m thinking the 2nd time around should only require 15 progress points.
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There were some significant changes after this weekend’s final play test game, but Delta 1st edition house rules are now 100% complete. Cards have already been designed, and printed decks will be available through artscow.com at the end of this week. All rules are now final until next year’s Delta 2nd edition, if the creation of such a project proves necessary.
Cheers,
YG
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Good to hear.
Will we be made aware of these changes?
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Good to hear.
Will we be made aware of these changes?
Sure, here are the changes made from our last play test…
- The entire Victory Point system has been removed (to difficult and time consuming to track throughout the game)
- Activation now applies to capital cities as well as non-capital cities allowing a $5 city objective bonus for liberation
- The paratrooper restriction against territories with fighters has been removed due to the above capital city liberation bonus
- The German Coastal Defense Strategic Advantage has been removed in favor of the rail gun “Dora” (card image below)
- The Manhattan Project Progressive Advantage has been completely changed to Atom Bombs (description below)
- Progressive advantages now require 25 progress points up from 20.
- Russian Winter progressive advantage is now the only progressive advantage with a one time effect (repeatable)
- A +1 has been added to the War Bonds Strategic Advantage
- A +1 has been added to the Russian Winter Progressive Advantage
- A +1 has been added to the V-Rockets Strategic Advantage, as well… must pass SBR defenses.
- A +1 convoy dice has been added to German U-Boats for the Enigma Strategic Advantages
- The +1 movement for Jet Fighters progressive advantage has been removed
- The “tactical bombers may intercept and scramble” rule for the Radar progressive advantage has been removed
- The reward for owning original territories for China is now $10 (can now attack Korea, and liberate FIC)
- Deep Decent optional rule has been added
- Weaponized Transports optional rule has been added
- Political Exile optional rule has been added
- The Enigma Machine title has been changed to Enigma
- The Blitzkrieg Tactics title has been changed to Blitzkrieg
- as well, several Strategic Objective titles have been changed
Here is a description of the new American Progressive Advantage “Atom Bombs”:
Atom Bombs
During each combat phase, America chooses an enemy capital and may then roll 1 dice to remove income, 1 dice to damage the IC, and 1 dice to destroy units on the territory (enemy chooses which casualties to remove).Here is a description of the German R7 pairing with the new Strategic Advantage “Dora”:
7A - Dora
Germany may bombard an enemy territory or hostile sea zone during each combat round @3 or less provided the battle contains at least 1 German unit, and is adjacent to a German controlled territory in Europe.or
7B - V-Rockets
Germany may launch a rocket attack from each operational airbase under German control, towards an enemy facility up to 4 spaces away. Germany rolls 1 die per rocket causing that amount of damage to the targeted facility +1, provided that the attack can pass all SBR defense systems.Here is the card image that will be used for the “Dora” Strategic Advantage:
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@Young:
- Activation now applies to capital cities as well as non-capital cities allowing a $5 city objective bonus for liberation
- The paratrooper restriction against territories with fighters has been removed due to the above capital city liberation bonus
I do not understand why these two are related… can you elaborate on the situation that caused this change?
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@Young:
- Activation now applies to capital cities as well as non-capital cities allowing a $5 city objective bonus for liberation
- The paratrooper restriction against territories with fighters has been removed due to the above capital city liberation bonus
I do not understand why these two are related… can you elaborate on the situation that caused this change?
Our group argued that with the $5 capital city objective bonus changing hands once liberated, and the addition of the Political Exile optional rule, Sealion would never become a viable strategy for the Axis and I agreed. Therefore, we decided to throw the Axis a bone by giving operation Sealion the opportunity to use paratroopers.
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@Young:
@Young:
- Activation now applies to capital cities as well as non-capital cities allowing a $5 city objective bonus for liberation
- The paratrooper restriction against territories with fighters has been removed due to the above capital city liberation bonus
I do not understand why these two are related… can you elaborate on the situation that caused this change?
Our group argued that with the $5 capital city objective bonus changing hands once liberated, and the addition of the Political Exile optional rule, Sealion would never become a viable strategy for the Axis and I agreed. Therefore, we decided to throw the Axis a bone by giving operation Sealion the opportunity to use paratroopers.
Granted I did not play the game, but is it worth throwing the entire rule for a single (limited) example?
And why does paratroopers have an effect on this? Neither the 5 IPC capital bonus or the Political Exile rule affect the number of British units that a German Sealion invasion would have to deal with. Is a Sealion invasion less palatable to Germany because once UK retakes England they essentially get 5 extra IPCs for the remainder of the game? I still don’t see what that has to do with paratroopers. Even if Germany takes England, it will take two or three Turns for UK to get ships built and in range to retake it, by which time Germany can have solidified a hold. Still don’t see how paratroopers help.
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I must not have explained the issue properly…
We all agreed and recognized that there are too many variables that work against the logic of attempting operation sealion. Since none of us wanted sealion to be a bad strategy to attempt, we removed one variable to make the operation more atractive. The variables are not historically related what so ever, this is a modification based on game play and not history, although it could be argued that transports planes have surprise and are the first in at night avoiding interceptors. I hope this explains things, however, I fully expect each group playing Delta to house rule the advantages that best suit each group’s participants.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that during the game Italy wanted to send paratroopers to Algeria but there was a French fighter on it. He was disappointed that he couldn’t use his advantage and even the Allied players were sympathetic to his case.
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@Young:
I must not have explained the issue properly…
We all agreed and recognized that there are too many variables that work against the logic of attempting operation sealion. Since none of us wanted sealion to be a bad strategy to attempt, we removed one variable to make the operation more atractive. The variables are not historically related what so ever, this is a modification based on game play and not history, although it could be argued that transports planes have surprise and are the first in at night avoiding interceptors. I hope this explains things, however, I fully expect each group playing Delta to house rule the advantages that best suit each group’s participants.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that during the game Italy wanted to send paratroopers to Algeria but there was a French fighter on it. He was disappointed that he couldn’t use his advantage and even the Allied players were sympathetic to his case.
Alright, I guess that is good enough for me. Still looking forward to those cards.
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@Young:
I must not have explained the issue properly…
We all agreed and recognized that there are too many variables that work against the logic of attempting operation sealion. Since none of us wanted sealion to be a bad strategy to attempt, we removed one variable to make the operation more atractive. The variables are not historically related what so ever, this is a modification based on game play and not history, although it could be argued that transports planes have surprise and are the first in at night avoiding interceptors. I hope this explains things, however, I fully expect each group playing Delta to house rule the advantages that best suit each group’s participants.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that during the game Italy wanted to send paratroopers to Algeria but there was a French fighter on it. He was disappointed that he couldn’t use his advantage and even the Allied players were sympathetic to his case.
Alright, I guess that is good enough for me. Still looking forward to those cards.
LHoffman,
You have been an excellent contributor to these Delta house rules and it seems that this is the only issue you have with the changes made this weekend. Therefore, I will reinstate the paratrooper restriction when fighters are present, and our group will either house rule it out ourselves, or wait for the reevaluation during 2nd edition discussions next year.
Cheers.
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