You can find units silhouettes in the Unit Identification Cards I posted here:
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/21626/a-a-unit-identification-charts/10
Each chart can be expanded in size by clicking on it.
Sealion? Is there a perfict set up?
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Been there, done that. Germany winning London with a handfull of units aint going to cut it for the axis. UK should know this and play on it. Loosing London isn’t the killer some people think it is, as long as GE bleeds for it.
Totally agree with this. Be careful what you wish for, Germany
I put the 5 NO for London back in, in my houseruled game :-)
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Yeah, now that I think about it, you are right. Even if Italy manages to spread out in Africa, the most they will be making is around 35-40 IPCs and that won’t mean a lot if their big brother Germany gets pounded by the Allies. I have even seen a couple of games where Germany got beat first then the Allies turned on Italy. It wasn’t pretty for Italy then.
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If London falls then it will be turn 5 or 6 before its liberated. It could actually be round 7 or 8 if Germany or Italy uses DD for blockers. It works better for Italy to use blockers since Germany is tapped out on round 2 buying TRs. Italy can block SZ 106 and 102 unless USA is sitting in 102. This buys you 1 more round. If the block is successful then Germany can put up another block on SZ 107 and 103 now you just bought another turn.
If Japan does not have India by then, I guess they are chasing the Chinese. If India falls on turn 5 and London has still not been liberated then India is done and the middle east will fall to Japan and Italy. There is no perfect strategy for the game and that is great otherwise it would be no fun. But if the allies show weakness like sending too much to the med from London then you can act on it. A successful Sealion requires all the axis to be on the same page.
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Wholehartedly agreed about the need for being on the same page!
US4 should see the liberation of London already. Remember the fall of London is a casus bellum for the USA so it can start making combat moves US3 regardless of what Japan does or does not. US4 can reach SZ109 with 3CV[5ftr, 1tac]+1BB+3CA+2DD+1sub+3STR+7TRS[7inf, 1arm, 2art, 4mech]. With blockers the axis can delay this force taking London for 1 turn to US5 at best.
Note that the GE1 buys should have alarmed the UK into blocking off and reinforcing the rock UK1 (only to jump into London OR Africa UK2, depending on the GE2 buys) so IT won’t be able to get their hand on Gibraltar on time. -
Been there, done that. Germany winning London with a handfull of units aint going to cut it for the axis. UK should know this and play on it. Loosing London isn’t the killer some people think it is, as long as GE bleeds for it.
Totally agree with this. Be careful what you wish for, Germany
I put the 5 NO for London back in, in my houseruled game :-)
I realize this isn’t the place for “house rules” but this came to mind as I was reading through what if……
A while back (between Alpha+2 & Alpha+3) I had suggested to Larry that all VCs be worth 5 IPCs per round to whomever captured them (must be enemy controlled). To add to that I also suggested a 1 time 5 IPC bonus to liberate a VC back to your side (to offset or give incentive). This was when the community/Larry was looking to have an NO incentive for the US/UK to liberate Paris (rarely does this happen in the game even now). I believe London was an NO for Germany at this time too. This idea got a lot of positive response from the community, and Larry even made a comment that was encouraging at the time, but didn’t make the cut for Alpha+3 (maybe there just wasn’t enough time to play test this theory).
Most of the VCs are part of the Axis NO’s anyway (Russian cities, Japanese targets), and others are linked to Allied NO’s if they keep them (like Phil, or Hawaii, now Paris). I just figured it would be easier to explain the NO’s to newer players because many of them would be marked in Red on the map. You would have a handful of others to explain, like the Ita Med NO, but the list wouldn’t be quite as long as we have now. Now some of the VC are bonuses to the axis, but only if certain axis powers take them. I find it funny that if Italy or Japan takes Stalingrad, that axis (Germany) don’t get paid extra, but if Germany/Italy manages to take Calcutta then the Japanese get 5 IPCs?
You would need to re-draft the currant NO’s to accommodate, removing some and tweaking others. Japan would even start the game with one enemy VC (Shanghai), and some others would be easy conquests for the axis (Paris, Kwangtung). This would ratchet up the axis income base, so some of the fluff NO’s could be reduced, or eliminated (like the 10 IPC Japan gets not to take FIC could be reduced to 5 IPCs etc…). We have played a couple games with this in the past, but haven’t played enough to really see what it would offer. This idea kind died, but I think it could still make for a very cool variant if tested properly.
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Couple thoughts in response
I don’t “rarely” take France. I have liberated France on numerous occasions in 2nd edition G40, and have liberated it in the league championship game that is going on right now (waiting for J7). (Yes he will probably get Paris back, but not before I spend 15 IPC’s as France)
2nd, you are apparently unaware of my house-ruled game that I am developing for league play
Ruleset is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhOB4pSke42ydGh6d2NwRDJRRzBteEsyU1EtNGhXVUE#gid=7
And there is a stickied thread for discussing it.One of the major changes I made is eliminating ANZAC and France as separate playable powers. So when France is liberated, the liberator controls France and the minor IC. I have made some changes to NO’s, like re-instating the no German subs in the Atlantic NO for UK (and taking away the original territories one).
As far as the inconsistent NO’s, I think the idea is that getting Russian territory was a really big deal to the Germans but not to Italy (and of course IRL Japan was not going to take any European territory whatsoever)
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Wholehartedly agreed about the need for being on the same page!
US4 should see the liberation of London already. Remember the fall of London is a casus bellum for the USA so it can start making combat moves US3 regardless of what Japan does or does not. US4 can reach SZ109 with 3CV[5ftr, 1tac]+1BB+3CA+2DD+1sub+3STR+7TRS[7inf, 1arm, 2art, 4mech]. With blockers the axis can delay this force taking London for 1 turn to US5 at best.
Note that the GE1 buys should have alarmed the UK into blocking off and reinforcing the rock UK1 (only to jump into London OR Africa UK2, depending on the GE2 buys) so IT won’t be able to get their hand on Gibraltar on time.I just don’t see it. To many variables to count England has 0 transports if played right after England round 2. That tells me Italy can take it with little it no fight are you gonna leave a fighter there by it self? Italy’s navy in my opinion is expendable as long as the med is clear I still get the NO correct? Also what’s stoping me round 2 -3 setting up Italian blockers also to slow America down
Also say round 3 I take England falls fine and dandy let’s be modest day out of 20 units 10 make it I’ll even make it easyer 10 Infantry now it’s Americas turn if your blocked from Gibralter you gonna fight to take it back or go right for England? It takes 2 turns any which way to get there.
Now it’s turn 4 were ever you are I already anticipate where your going and England isn’t there to help anymore. I still get to buy 3 more units 3 infantry more which is now what 13 total there and i stage all my fighters so 5 Fighters (which I choose when the time comes not to scramble) since I have a ship off the coast of England all your shore bombardments are gone and moot when the time comes.
You crunch the numbers with no shore bombardments and allmost all your landing party is what rolling 1’s with a handful of planes I just don’t see itAlso you spent 2 soild turns building your fleet in the Atlantic and nothing in the Pacific Japan turn 1-2 builds transports so what’s that add up to 8 transports with 3 carriers 2 battleships and how ever
Many support ships taken over Sanfransisco Turn 4 cause after you spent allyour money in America your gonna need a follow up party if you fail to take back England and no I don’t need to spend a lot to hold England 9 Ipcs for 3 men each turn until I have 20 should prevent it from fallingBasicaly even if all the worse case senerios happin to Germany and everything crumbles Japan is left to long out of check Japan will win the pacific.
But in my honest opinion I just don’t see America retaken back England which a bunch of ones. Even if I stall America till round 5 to attempt to take it back that still gives me 3 more men in England and I should mention that the 2 fighters from Italy can also land in England which brings the total to what 7 fighters on defense with 16 men now? Not gonna happin
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Germany can’t afford to leave a lot of ground troops/tanks on the UK
Russia should be on the rampage after Sealion -
Again if And it’s the one word I hate in this world is IF Germany and Italy plays smart between the amount of cash you just off England’s demise and the tactical retreat with your units exsisting units you wait for the American force to fall short and hard swap to Russia.
Because by round 4-5 Japan has the west coast and America can’t afford to try again to take back England and that makes it easy for Germany to hard swap all it’s units and Possably lad behind Russia’s lines or just massively overwhelm them
It’s all situational remember that!
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@Whitshadw (hope I spelled the name correctly ;-)):
With the ‘bring the boys home’ approach, the UK should even survive on its own, with 0-15 units surviving (depending on the number of GE TRS). So without the need of being liberated (according to LowLuck, that is). At best it is a cripling victory for Germany if we forget about lucky dice rolls. Yes this leaves Egypt vulnerable but not a walkover (Italy still needs serious effort to take it).
UK1 kills the IT ‘fleet’ in SZ96 and blocks SZ94. Together with the French in SZ93, Gibraltar is blocked off. The rock cannot be taken round 1, so no Italian blockers in the atlantic round 2. UK can even bring into SZ92 a total of 1CV+2FTR+2CA+1DD. Probably minus 1CA/DD as cannon fodder for taking out German ships/subs still around Britain.Furthermore, I guess you are correct about Japan threatening the US west coast. I said so myself that this might be the only thing stopping the US from liberating the UK (if it needs to be) with ease.
However, speaking about situational, for Japan this means India, China and ANZAC are getting rich and this is bad news for Tokyo.The way I see it, the US has 2 valid options if Japan puts a priority on SF while GEIT are trying to get into London:
1. Prepare the liberation of London whether that is needed or not. Japan cannot be offensive the first 2 rounds because that will bring the US in the war too early and will ruin any SL attempt.
As long as the US realises it must return spending 100% (or a bit less, depending on how serious the threat on the west coast is) in the pacific from turn 3 and on. Russia can perfectly fight GEIT while London Recovers for the killing of GEIT. The US keeps on near 100% in the Pac and will be a perfect match for Japan together with ANZAC/China/India.2. Forfeit liberating London and go straight into KJF with ANZAC/China/UK (Russia btw can keep its 18 Siberians in the east to close in on Japan as well). The USA can take its time in the PAC, overpowering Japan without the urge to return to Europe fast because Russia is in danger. Russia can fight GEIT almost indefinately in this situation. That is what SL does to Russia:Germany.
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@Whitshadw (hope I spelled the name correctly ;-)):
With the ‘bring the boys home’ approach, the UK should even survive on its own, with 0-15 units surviving (depending on the number of GE TRS). So without the need of being liberated (according to LowLuck, that is). At best it is a cripling victory for Germany if we forget about lucky dice rolls. Yes this leaves Egypt vulnerable but not a walkover (Italy still needs serious effort to take it).
UK1 kills the IT ‘fleet’ in SZ96 and blocks SZ94. Together with the French in SZ93, Gibraltar is blocked off. The rock cannot be taken round 1, so no Italian blockers in the atlantic round 2. UK can even bring into SZ92 a total of 1CV+2FTR+2CA+1DD. Probably minus 1CA/DD as cannon fodder for taking out German ships/subs still around Britain.Furthermore, I guess you are correct about Japan threatening the US west coast. I said so myself that this might be the only thing stopping the US from liberating the UK (if it needs to be) with ease.
However, speaking about situational, for Japan this means India, China and ANZAC are getting rich and this is bad news for Tokyo.The way I see it, the US has 2 valid options if Japan puts a priority on SF while GEIT are trying to get into London:
1. Prepare the liberation of London whether that is needed or not. Japan cannot be offensive the first 2 rounds because that will bring the US in the war too early and will ruin any SL attempt.
As long as the US realises it must return spending 100% (or a bit less, depending on how serious the threat on the west coast is) in the pacific from turn 3 and on. Russia can perfectly fight GEIT while London Recovers for the killing of GEIT. The US keeps on near 100% in the Pac and will be a perfect match for Japan together with ANZAC/China/India.2. Forfeit liberating London and go straight into KJF with ANZAC/China/UK (Russia btw can keep its 18 Siberians in the east to close in on Japan as well). The USA can take its time in the PAC, overpowering Japan without the urge to return to Europe fast because Russia is in danger. Russia can fight GEIT almost indefinately in this situation. That is what SL does to Russia:Germany.
Don’t take this as a direct attack on you Whitshadw, but I agree with what ItIsILeClerc said, and have posted very similar issues, and counters showing that your SL plan isn’t as cut and dry as you might think. Especially the aftermath threatening North America? Sounds more like some chest pounding because the Germans normally attempt to save their SL fleet by retreating, or adding an AB to the Chanel after the assault on London (not heading to the America’s LOL). With that said, your orig thoughts on SL are very viable if the UK player doesn’t take the threat seriously, and react accordingly. Given what we have listed would be a max def for London approach by the UK (not all UK players would do these things). I will add UK is my favorite allied power to play, and I would defiantly smell a Sea Lion threat with the purchases and moves that Germany made in the opening post giving the Germans a pretty damn good North Sea fleet (buying carrier/bmr, plus hit & run with Ger BB surviving). I realize that it could be a bait and switch (threaten UK, hit Russia), but I personally would prepare for max def of London (like I said, UK is my fav, and I won’t lose it because of lack of effort), again granted others might not see/do these things.
This would include buying units for London, using my surviving transports to bring troops home, keeping the RAF in London (no Taranto run), and bringing the Med fleet over to sz92 (as pointed out by ItIsILeClerc and myself earlier). The UK can block out the Italians from hitting the English Med fleet in sz92 and the Rock at the same time by clearing sz96, and leaving a dd in sz 94 (if the French fleet is still alive in sz93). I like to call this “Castling” (like in chess you are protecting the king early in the game, and the king is London).
Maybe your group hasn’t seen this in the past, but it really is a very viable UK strat especially if there is a SL threat. A lot of UK players don’t like to sacrifice the Med fleet to kill the Italian fleet (figure they’ll get it later when it leaves port). This allows the UK to keep the Med fleet (or trade it for German air), block out Gib, and deny Italy from all it’s NO’s for at least one turn. I realize the axis can work together, and kill the Med fleet (Italy clears a landing spot for the Luftwaffe, and the Germans air strike it). If this is the case then SL is off the table (Luftwaffe took at hit, and/or is out of position), plus you have weakened the Italian econ. If the axis don’t hit the Med fleet in sz92, then you have an Atlantic starter fleet if SL is aborted or can interfere with SL making it more of a gambit (with the UK Indian fleet heading to the Med).
So we have either called your bluff, and force you to abort SL, or if you go through with SL, the cost is too extreme. You either won’t have the ground units left to protect your conquest (not a given that London will fall), or the Luftwaffe/navy has taken a hit because of the RN/RAF lurking on or around England. With the UK Med navy coming up, you would either have to fight through/kill it, or avoid it (the later leaves it as part of a 1-2 punch w/US on your SL fleet before/afterwords).
Plus the US (stationed in sz102) very well could be in a great position to also strike your SL fleet off the coast of England, or liberate London (given the later could be difficult depending on how the attack on the Island Nation went).
So to answer the question of the topic “Sea lion? Is there a perfect set up?” I guess my answer would be no, because there are some tricks up the allies sleeve if they are prepared for it (very situational). It very well could work though, if the allies don’t take it seriously. The real question is was it worth it in the long run due to the cost, and can Germany recover?
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Bill!
Were on the same page and no I don’t take any offense to anything here! It’s a place where like minded players come as share ideas and concepts on which best helps them in future games with friends etc!
I’m with you on England’s home defense I would also so the same with out question! It’s silly to take the risk not to! In fact the last few months I’ve been playing England and adopting versions diffrent strats that are sorta out of the box but work for me and I honesty prefer to play England above all other country’s.
Also to clear anything further we and it’s a group of about 8 people alternating playing Global 1940 table top we don’t play “Low Luck” there’s nothing certin in war and I’d rather have the feeling of fate and strategies come play a factor then knowing 5 moves down the road how battles are gonna turn up.
Castleing I’m very familer with it and it’s a
Very clever move by the Britsh for round 1 to prevent Italy from getting Gibralter but you have 1 transport with Possably 2 infantry? Sitting there. Which is good but then again Italy can’t get there and has to deal with the British Destoryer and French Fleat. No big dealAgain like I said it’s all about being reactive and fluid out of a possable 11 transports I’m sure I can spare 1 to go from sea zone 112 where the bulk of my Fleat is with a cruser to seazone 91 and take Gibralter 1 infantry 1 tank with a cruser bombardment would have better odds to take it now the English Fleat is stuck in the Meditranian I’d like to call that move “Check”
England has no more units available round 2 to retake Gibralter and move it’s Fleat so Italy destroys it ( don’t worry “Mate” come in round 3 wen England falls)
Also everyone is vastly under apprishating what 3 Germany Stratigic bombers do to England’s round 2 buys along with knocking out there air fields! Not to mention any possable convoy raiding I can do with 1 sub off the coast of Egypt ( not Much but it helps during Italy R1)
I’ll agree ofcorse to anything and everything is possable cause it’s a chance game dice are a factor! Skill is a factor etc!
About the Russians it’s Moot to discuss cause even more variables come to play I’m not here to discuss what’s gonna happin round 7 or 5 or 15 with If and Buts to much to theory craft when 3 rounds is enough to put you in a position where if the numbers are on your side your better off.
The whole Possably threating America again it all boils down to who are you playing there skill etc I only mentioned that cause it’s an option and ANYTHING is possable.
Going back to what ItIS said about all the other country’s “exploding”
Come on let’s face facts by the time SF falls you think Syd is gonna be a fortress if your building transports and men to capture islands your not reinforcing the island all I need is half the Japanese fleet to crush it.
It’s only 2 spaces away and the last city I need for victory but again
Like I said before it all depends on who dose what how and where right?Again keep sharing ideas it’s what were all here for to catch something that other miss!
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Very good discussion. I had a successful sealion game last night. I wasn’t even planning on doing a sealion. I was planning to do “angry bird”. I purchased 3 subs and IC in Romania. When I attacked his navy he scrambled his planes and lost all but 1. I’m thinking this is too good to be true. Next GB buys 1 Fighter, 1 IC and 1 mech. Now he is asking for it. So I purchased 9 TRs and bombed/convoyed with my 8 subs(yea, 5 lived, lol). One thing to note, don’t convoy a capital you plan on capturing the next turn, ;) Needless to say London fell with me losing 2 planes to AA and 10 inf. I kept 9 tanks and 1 art in the London. Unfortunately I had to repair the IC later to produce inf, lol. The turn I performed the sealion I purchased 13 inf 1 mech. Russia had thought on turn 1 that I was preparing to attack them since I bought the Romanian IC. They moved back. Then after I purchased the transports they moved forward. I had 19 inf + 2 art + 4 mech + 3 AAA in Romania. He consolidated them in East Poland after I took London. I had BB, CA, 8 subs, 10, tr. I know this does not normally happen and I think my opponents were a bit overconfident. But it was interesting how quickly I was able to recover the eastern front with Germany. Germany can place so many units so close to each other its like having a super complex. Needless to say they surrendered after London fell. One of these days I might be able to play a full game with sealion but I really think I could have managed Russia. I was planning to stack Romania and upgrade its IC to a major. After London fell I could produce 21inf and upgrade my Romanian ic. Now if Russia moves into Poland I will have 30 inf in Berlin and around 40 units in Romania the turn after.
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Well done sir Cyan  :-).
This is what I am advocating: take London by surprise if you see you can do it. Winning London with such a large garrison is the way to do it. Still I very strongly believe the UK can perfectly cause the axis to loose the game, no matter who plays GE with whatever plans. Only thing is, ofc, it does matter who plays the UK hehheeeh…I know I should know the exact Russian/American/Pacific situation before saying so, but chances are that I would have given up as well if playing America in this situation.
Going back to what ItIS said about all the other country’s “exploding”
Come on let’s face facts by the time SF falls you think Syd is gonna be a fortress if your building transports and men to capture islands your not reinforcing the island all I need is half the Japanese fleet to crush it.
It’s only 2 spaces away and the last city I need for victory but again
Like I said before it all depends on who dose what how and where right?Again keep sharing ideas it’s what were all here for to catch something that other miss!
I am not sure what your point is, but I don’t think there are exploding countries ;-).
But, while we’re at it: yes, Russia can explode in Germany’s face if Germany is taking Sea Lion too serious while the UK plays a decent game. Now what is too serious, eh? Or, what is a decent game for the UK?
Since you said you are not interested in discussing what happens in turn 5 or 7 or 15, I won’t explain that. Best I can say is that the UK should pull every trick out of its magic hat to avoid London and Gibraltar from falling. And it is perfectly able to do so. Just read Wild Bill’s excellent post again. And mine, which is vastly less excellent, but still ;-). To avoid all the what if’s: given a reliable player on the UK (let’s say Wild Bill plays it  :-D), Sea Lion is not going to work for the axis. Unless… GE can trick UK, spring a trap like Cyanight did in his last game. Catch the UK by surprise with its pants down!At first I was rather upset about A&AG40.2 for allowing Sea Lion to be even possible. After a while I just realised it is too expensive for the axis in terms of fighting capacity against the Russians so now I am ‘at peace’ with it. For the sake of gamebalance.
Discussing what Russia can do during or after a GE Sea Lion is moot?
Certainly it adds a lot of variables but if you want to win the game, not only take London and then loose, you will have to! What is the point if you can prove you can take London if the Russians then make GE loose the game?!About SF falling.
I am again not certain what your point is but believe me, this is not going to work since Japan lets India + China + Anzac getting rich while the USA will be building enough troops in the rear to kick the Japanese out, combined with heavy air production. The aircraft also comes in handy when Japan inevitably has to back off; America can now switch to building CV (and land all their previously produced FTR on it) which will combine with returning elements from Europe maps -if needed- and the other remnants of the Pacific fleet(s) that have stayed alive ofc. No, taking SF in this stage of the war is not going to cut it. Threatening both Hawai and Sydney may cut it for Japan but again I doubt the Japanese will be able to hold both if they do. On top of a 100% US investment in the pacific from turn 3, India, China + ANZAC are just getting too rich to let this happen. Rest assured, this is my guess. Prediction if you will. I have not experienced it yet.And please don’t forget USA might even forgo liberating the UK at all! IF UK even needs to be… KJF is a viable strategy and even more so after GE has bled taking London because for a long time, Russia is not in danger.
On a side note, I always use “Low Luck” to predict the course of the war. LL can really help telling you your strategy is foolproof, but no strategy is, of course diceproof!
Like Wild Bill stated so nicely, I am not trying to attack any strategy but I do like to discuss moves and countermoves and their (presumed) effects. Sea Lion is just an excellent one to do that.
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If Germany has 9 tanks remaining after taking London then there is no liberating London for at least 3 more turns. Unless of course USA built 9 transports, 5 inf and 5 art (total cost 98). But then there is no protection for the transports. USA cannot take back London for at least 3 more turns if this happens. It takes 2 turns to get there and during the first 2 turns they could barely produce the above units. So we have to add another turn to buy the protection, dd, cv and planes. I guess you could move everything from the pacific over to the Atlantic, but on round 1 USA probably moved it to Anzac or Hawaii. So we are talking at least 4 more turns to send a force capable of destroying 9 tanks and at least 9 inf bought over the turns. Its almost imperative that UK builds 6 inf and a fighter first round to prevent London from falling.
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You’re going to leave 9 tanks on London and still be able to deal with the Russians?
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Very good point Gamerman01, but what if it was just 9inf instead of tanks. USA still does not have a force capable of liberating for at least 3-4 more turns. If they were all tanks you might be better off just wiping the navy and leave the tanks stranded in London.
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As far as my experience goes, if Germany can get 9ARM into London, USA trying to liberate it gets tricky. For both sides.
Having (and leaving) 9ARM in London can be pulled off IF the luftwaffe still exists to threaten Russia. This is the sort of German victory over London I am talking about when saying ‘sucessfull’. If the luftwaffe is (mostly) gone, Germany is done for by Russian pressure alone.However, 9ARM is not going to stop USA from liberating London. That can be achieved by Japan’s actions PLUS leaving the Luftwaffe in london also.
Remember, the USA has elements of its pacific fleet to rush into London so if Japan goes down and heavy on India, the US can bring into London US4:
7TRS, 1BB, 3CA, 3CV, 5FTR, 1TAC, 3STR, 7INF, 2ART, 1ARM, 4MECH.
For a total expense of 91 IPCs. USA has 104 IPCs to spend in the 2 first turns so it can even bring more. Germany can ONLY defend against this with all its Luftwaffe in London + the Italian airforce as well. Which is interesting, because then Stalin should smile at the Germans trying to defend against him…So the first choice rests with Japan; will it play standard OR will it focus on the USA to prevent London from being rescued? The latter gives very interesting allied options as well, as China, India and ANZAC will get rich and the USA can even forego liberating London and help focusing down Japan whilst Russia plays a ‘hold out’ game against Germany/Italy, at which it is VERY capable I might add. And don’t forget Russia no longer even requires its Siberian Hunters in Moscow, so those can stay in the pacific… Staring down Japanese ;-).
The second choice rests with the USA. Going after Japan in turn sequence, the USA has an easier job making this decision and it will be either KJF OR Liberating London. Depending on what Japan does, ofc! IF Japan plays the standard ‘India’ game, the USA can choose to bring down a mean hammer to London to force GE to choose to defend against either the hammer or the (Russian) anvil and it cannot do both. The USA must of course from US3 and on, spend all its income in the Pacific again to prepare for the possibility that Japan turns around and comes for Hawai and/or Sydney. Since Japan is bullying India, this will not be a real threat for at least untill J7 so plenty of time for the US.
Leaves me only 1 thing to say: UK should be perfectly able to make GE have only 1 to 9 survivors in total (including its Luftwaffe) or even win the battle outright! Which makes liberating actions by the US a lot easier OR Russian pressure a lot bigger! In any case, Russia can play an effective hold out game while the USA destroys either 1 axis partner.
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Even if they build 6inf and a fighter its still very possible.
Hey there, a lot of good posts in this thread and I agree to everything what gamerman said, I picked a small quote here to drop one sentence:
The question whether to do sealion is NOT if it is possible but only if it is devastating enough to take London with minimal losses.
A close victory in London losing lots of air and tanks almost equals a certain demise of the Axis against well playing Allies.
And even if you take London with lots of survivors the game is far away from being over in case the Russians play well.Lets be honest here, Sea Lion is a cat and mouse game. Germany signals to the UK player that I’ll do Sea Lion if you don’t hedge against it by buying 6 Inf and 1 Ftr on UK1. As a German player, I want you to turtle. I don’t want a carrier on top of 2 Destroyers and a Cruiser with 4 fighters scrambling over it before I make my second purchase.
Well said, I agree!
In addition the German fleet not only says UK to turtle but also forces US to invest more in boats before they can annoy the Germans in Europe. The carrier always creates an annoying threat on sz91 because Germans can never be completely blocked of 91 then. -
But also keep in mind: The fleet in G1 forces the Germans to play VERY efficient towards Russia to at least keep a chance on a successful push on Moscow till G7. After G7 the odds on Moscow usually drop for a while which is not the end of the game but in many cases a severe problem. Building ground in G1 makes a successful attack on Moscow till G7 very likely however the question is whether Western Europe collapses in the meantime or not.
Any outcome depends on how efficient the players play and who does less smaller mistakes than his opponent.
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