I am working on a game featuring all the capital ships from this battle using a simple template of rules 3-6 pages using d12 dice, large hex map of ocean and pieces created from stickers mounted on wooden rectangles. I will offer this game completely free for a download ( rules, units , where to buy the wood pieces, and mat for cheap) so in effect youd expect to pay about 30 bucks for the supplies.
What i need is some comments as what specific ideas the game should cover. I imagine having destroyers have a special torpedo attack and ability to smokescreen the disposition of your forces. I also would include a fog of war feature with these blocks while the ships themselves will have the basic attack,defend, move capabilities but some aspect of range for the larger ships so they can shell your fleet from a distance. What ideas can you come up with ?
Hey IL,
Always glad to lend you a hand with your games.
-how about including the possibility of misfires or duds on all shelling attacks.
-I think the wooden rectangled pieces are excellent for the “fog of war” in this game. They should work very well in representing the poor visibility that was created as a result of the bad weather and night fighting.
-game turns to indicate day or night fighting. With a decrease to all attack values during night fighting.
-Higher German night attack values (over the British) due to their superior searchlights and better night fighting tactics.
-Higher German battle-cruiser defense values due to better armour especially on turrents and deck plating.
-Even though thier faster speed was not well utilized by the British; a higher British battle-crusier movement range due to thier lighter armour.
What do you think?
I’m sure you have this already, but here’s the losses from each side:
British
Battlecruisers Indefatigable, Queen Mary, Invincible
Armoured cruisers Black Prince, Warrior, Defence
Flotilla Leaders Tipperary
Destroyers Shark, Sparrowhawk, Turbulent, Ardent, Fortune, Nomad, Nestor
German
Battlecruiser Lützow
Pre-Dreadnought Pommern
Light cruisers Frauenlob, Elbing, Rostock, Wiesbaden
(Heavy Torpedo Boats) Destroyers V48, S35, V27, V4, V29
It was real good talking with you again today. I’ll be sure to keep in touch. With what little time I’ve had lately, I’ve been working on some opptional/variations rules with Axis and Allies. Looking forward to seeing The Battle of the Bulge finished map.
I still have playtesting to do on the bulge game, so your copy will be sent as soon as im satisfied the game has no bugs. I forgot to mention that on our conference call. On your suggestions ill stew on them for a bit and get back to you.
As far as the Jutland game… their will be two maps one a boxed grid showing strategic movement, and another for the tactical battles. this concept is typical in these games and for good reason. The tactical map will be in hexes, while the strategic map will look very much like the actual british map they used in ww1. The profiles of the ships will be on the side, because im tired of that feargod and dreadnought thing and i dont like that aesthetic. The rules are coming in at around 4-6 pages tops, so i dont want alot of special considerations that will take the game into more than 2 hours of playing time. The strategy of crossing the T will be emphasized as ships have modifications on firing front or back (broadside is best). I will also allow for subs and blimps for germany in a bid to come up with a what if scenario. (actually subs and zeps were deployed but didnt see the battle action. The german high seas fleet was at a 3/2 disadvantage and the shortcoming will be made up with better fire control, ability to execute better fleet maneuvers, some qualititive differences with their battlecruisers and dreadnoughts ( better ability to stay afloat, better weaponry).
of course destroyer smokescreens and torpedo attacks will have their place. I may even have smaller blocks for the destroyers or have their values (quantity stated as a change marker) rather than delininate individual ships. Ill also make it compatible with miniatures if peeps want to bust out a/a minis for this battle game.
A few comments are neccesary to wrap this thing up. I need some input so as not to miss any important facts about the battle. I know you havent seen the strategic board, but take my word for it that nobody will complain!.
One thing i wanted to do was convert this for those peeps that want to use their plastic pieces unstead of the wooden counters.
Dreadnought (DN) british use revised BB, German use revised BB
Battlecruiser (BC) use original axis and allies battleship
Battleship (BB) (not sure yet this piece isnt in the battle… yikes!)
Old battleship (OBB) use diplomacy battleship, if not ill find a substitute
Armored Cruiser (AC) Use destroyers from revised
Light Cruiser (CL) Use battleships from eagle games attack
Destroyer (DD) use cruisers from eagle games Attack
Torpedo Boats (TB) use destroyers from eagle games attack
It would be easier for most people to able to play the game if the pieces needed to play came from as few games as possible. Most gamers on this forum are likely to have Axis and Allies Original and Revised (maybe even several copies of each). But the majority of players will not have Axis and Allies Original, Revised, Diplomacy and Attack. How about making all the pieces needed in order to play from AA original, AA revised, and Attack?
-Dreadnought(DN)- The British could us the AAR British battleship piece and the Germans coud use the AAR Russian battleship piece. This would keep the piece identical in design.
-Battlecruiser(BC)-use the AAR Japanese battleship
-Battleship(BB)-use the AAR USA battleship
-Old Battleship(OBB)-use the AAR German battleship
-Armored CruiserAC)-use the AA original battleship
-Light Cruiser(CL)-use battleships from eagle games attack
-Destroyer(DD)-use cruisers from eagle games Attack
-Torpedo Boats(TB)-use destroyers from eagle games attack
You can delete the “battleship” because unfortunatly on a purist level they were dreadnoughts and older ships of this class were called pre-dreadnoughts or old battleships but not battleships. Ill revise the numbers and it should look better. I got some really good rules coming up that will add alot of fun things including additional “what if pieces” Should have it ready by dec 30
Any other ideas??? how bout this… what would you rank each of those admirals? provide a number less than 15 for each admiral. Id like the german to be higher ranked than the english counterparts.
Germany:
Vice- Admiral Hipper
Vice-Admiral Scheer
Rear-Admiral Behncke
England:
Admiral Jellicoe
Vice-Admiral Beatty
@Imperious:
You can delete the “battleship” because unfortunatly on a purist level they were dreadnoughts and older ships of this class were called pre-dreadnoughts or old battleships but not battleships. Ill revise the numbers and it should look better. I got some really good rules coming up that will add alot of fun things including additional “what if pieces” Should have it ready by dec 30
Any other ideas??? how bout this… what would you rank each of those admirals? provide a number less than 15 for each admiral. Id like the german to be higher ranked than the english counterparts.
Germany:
Vice- Admiral Hipper
Vice-Admiral Scheer
Rear-Admiral BehnckeEngland:
Admiral Jellicoe
Vice-Admiral Beatty
It’s difficult to give a number ranking for each of these officers without knowing any specific factors that you might be using in order to assign a set value.
However, from what I know about them and just read:
Hipper:12
Scheer:11
Behncke:7
Jellico:9
Beatty:8
Jellico and Beatty could be argued to death over who was better overall.Â
Hipper and Scheer to a lesser degree.Â
I agree that the German Officers should be ranked higher than the British. They definately accomplished more, with less in the battle.
Thanks. Got the Jutland file. Should have time to look through it all tomorrow.
I have made many changes since… check what is posted here for additional details. I like your ratings and i was thinking along the same lines, except id boost all of them a little bit perhaps +5. just a thought.
Update:
Ruleset 100%
Counters are 100%
player maps are 100%
common player map ~100%
All done will post something within a week. playtesting going on
Wait till you see the ship counters! they are some of the best i have ever seen. Yes… even better than avalanche games “war at sea” series.
OK in 1-2 more days everything will be available for a free download so enjoy it. If you have any questions about how the rules work post them here.
OK the game is finished! rules can be found here:
http://advancedaxisandallies.com/images/JUTLAND.pdf
My web worker posted the wrong pictures for the pieces (missing german capital ships and too many extra u boats)… ill get this fixed so you can get the rest of the game… at least you can see what the game looks like:
http://advancedaxisandallies.com/page21.html
The larger map fits together, while you will need to print two (or more) copies of the small map… one for each player.
It is my gift to this forum with my compliments!
Wow, excellent job IL! Nice choice of design with the counters too.
Quick question on the numbers assigned to the top two German Admirals. What were some of the deciding factors used for assigning the numbers to Hipper and Scheer? Did Hipper get a 16 as compared to Scheers 12 mainly because he was more experienced? Or becuase of the position he held at the time of the battle?
The counters did not come out right… They are perfect but the dummy who scanned them did a vary poor job. All this will be corrected soon. Dont download anything till its perfect and it will be. THe decision for ratings was based on what i felt the game needed i used your template but added more numbers due to what i felt would develop in battles. I also used the ranks to influence this a bit. I can still tweek them if further playtesting warrants.
All is fixed and its now time to get your free boardgame… yes free! just download it and buy a few little items.
I’m about a year late, but this is really impressive! I look forward to reviewing the rules in more detail.
LOL… yea thats been a long time ago. The game plays very well with basic search and engagements.
using the Zeppelins, subs and carrier make for additional fun.
