Destroy royal navy ?

[Linkon]

It is a key move for Russia Restricted.

[K_Seel]

Its also a good move if you want to take England in the 2nd turn as Germany like I have done many times.

[MuthaRussia]

the best bet of germany winning is to by time, by destroying the royal navy…

[APolaris]

Always destroy all British and American ships you can with Germany, and only if you desperately want to hit Karelia this turn should it be an exception - and then, only if there’s a chance you’ll keep at least enough land units to hold the territory anyway or you’ll be better off hitting ships anyway. The way I do it: If the French sub survives have hit hit the US transport so it can’t attack Africa or Europe this turn. French fighter always hits the British transport off Canada’s coast (I do this even is the Russian transport goes to back it up, on rare occasions I may include the fighter from Finland-Norway). One fighter against the Med. battleship since I use the battleship and transport to hit Africa or Caucasus depending on the board position, and the odds are good enough for me to take that kind of risk (you will take down the battleship in more than half of all combats, and even though it often costs the fighter it’s better than losing a battleship or the only transport that gives access to Africa, Caucasus and Middle East in my opinion. Remaining fighters should I think join the bomber and, if it somehow survived the Russian turn, the sub in the Baltic Sea.
The transport in the baltic sea I view as flexible in the rare event that, like the sub, it survives the Russian turn. If you can attack Karelia it might be useful to transport 2 infantry with it. Otherwise I’d use it as “Cannon Fodder” agains the Royal Navy just to save planes; the more planes you keep the more you can kill ships again or use them in land attacks, and it would just get killed by the British planes anyway so it’s not useful past the first turn.
If all of this happens it does more than take down ships - it allows you to attack Karelia more easily. Why is that? Because if Britain and the US both cannot attack France you might as well throw all of your land units first turn into Eastern Europe, since Western needs no defense until the next turn. As always you can take the tanks from WE and move them to EE, but more importantly, you can move all infantry from Germany and, if any remain, Italy, to EE instead of having to move them to WE and WE is still easily possible to defend the next turn. I even go so far as to attack the British navy turn 2 or even 3, if I have planes left and they build one up, simply because, even though I’m trading planes for transports, I’m doing more: I’m keeping Britain from doing anything at all to Europe, thereby forcing Russia into a land war with Germany. They should lose this if Japan does its job right. And ALWAYS keep the bomber until last unit. Why? Because if it lands in WE it can hit American transports being built, bomb UK or Russian factories, or be used in European and African attacks in addition to helping with hitting the Royal Navy a second time… forcing the US to reconsider before using a simple build transports/infantry strategy in EUSA.

[MuthaRussia]

I think this vote is unaminous…If you vote to not destroy the navy, explain!

[APolaris]

I think by now it’s safe to say nobody will vote against it.

[El Jefe]

Daggum! The election was called even before it was over in my time zone(Eastern)!! :o

Must be those EVIL Extra-Chromosome Conservative Extreme Right-Wing Republicans manipulating elections again. :evil:

I’m gonna call JFK sos he can get his lawyers here pronto. :)

I’m keeping my butterfly ballot as evidence! :lol:

[Jennifer]

2 months late, but so what?

If, and I’m not espousing this on every game-just a way to stir it up a bit, you instead go for USSR in Karelia with everything you have you could cripple the Russian’s ability to join in the battle.

I view it more as a toss up between crippling the British or the Russians. You can cause more IPC damage to the British, but you could take more land with the Russians. (btw, even if you use your Luftwaffe in Russia, you better still take out at least the BB in the med, tranny in Canada and try to get a shot off with your sub from the Baltic.)

[Jennifer]

Another thought:

What are the odds of the UK purchasing an AC if you do not destroy both of her BBs?

It’s really the AC with two fighters that prevent Luftwaffe attacks on transports. A BB discourages it, but an AC with 2 fighters almost requires 3 fighters and 3 bombers to attack and you may not get the carrier or the fighters before your planes are destroyed. A BB is much easier to overwhelm.

[Guest]

The problem with attacking Karelia on G1 is that the Germans must do really well. This means they must take with 5+ ground units to have any chance of holding, and even then its not assured. Assuming the Germans will destroy only one transport the Brits can counter Karelia with 2inf 3ftrs bmb and a bb(perhaps). This gives them 16-19pips or roughly 3hits to which the Germans with 5arm AA should get 2-3 of their own, and one is likely an AA shot so really only 2. On round 2 the Brits attack with 1inf 1-2ftrs bmb, and get 2 hits. The Germans should return only 1 hit, and the Brits will likely want to take so as to allow the Russians to build. This usually ends up resulting in the complete destruction of German armor without any real guarantee they can rebuild it. What’s more the loss of 2 Uk ftrs isn’t a big deal as its likely the Germans will lose 1-2 of their own. In the end the Germans will spend far more Ipcs in units to take Karelia than the Allies will have to.

I also don’t agree that a bb is in any danger from the Luftwaffe if protected well enough. Consider how much cost there is to attack a bb 3-4trn sub. The Germans usually at best have 4ftrs bmb after G1 which means they should get about 3 hits. The Allied fleet though has a 1/3 chance of getting two hits. This means on the first round of combat alone the cost to the Allies will be ~16ipcs(as the Russian navy has no value), and the Germans lose 12-24ipcs. Also their is a hidden cost in sacking the German airforce this way in that they cannot rebuild them so once they are out they can no longer attack the navy period. So consider if the Germans pressed this attack to its logical conclusion and traded 2ftrs for a bb 3trns sub which is the best they could hope for. They now have only 2ftrs bmb, and as the Allies(US and Uk) I likely would not build anymore capital ships and dare the Germans to hit unescorted trannies. Consider that if the US builds 3 trns on US1 and Britain counters this move by building 3 of its own the Allies can have a total of 6-7 in one square at any one time. What’s more the American bb should move into play by US3 so on turn 2 I can dare the Germans to attack 7 trannies with 2ftrs bmb. If they do they likely trade 12ipcs for 16ipcs, or 24ipcs for 24ipcs. Either way the end result is that Germany does not have enough air to hold its fronts, that is EE, but also cannot attack unescorted trannies either. This is not a good scenario to put yourself in under any circumstances.

[Linkon]

Jennifer,

As GBR, given the GBR SZ BB, I would still buy the AC.

The extra BB moves to WUS SZ to cover the US trn purchases.

[Jennifer]

See, I was thinking the UK BB with 5 trannies is better then 2 trannies, a BB and an AC

[Guest]

Jennifer I think you are right. I would invite Germany to attacks bb 5trns with 4ftrs bmb if I were the Uk. This is because they Brits have a reasonable chance on the first round of combat of trading 2German ftrs for only 3trannies, and I assume that 1-2 of these will not even be theirs. American trannies are cheap enough to replace and Russian trannies do not have much value. Assuming the Germans don’t make a lot of mistakes. By the end of the secon round of combat the Germans have likely traded 2-3ftrs for only 5trannies. With this much loss of air they could have a real hard time holding EEuro and WEuro which makes it very easy for the Allies to win the game.

[dezrtfish]

I would be perfectly happy with 1 BB to defend my fleet. In fact I like the idea of daring the Germans to try to attack with only air, you are bound to come out ahead in terms of IPCs. I ONLY buy the AC if I have lost BOTH BBs.

[Jennifer]

I only buy the AC if I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the US will put fighters on it. (and by know, I mean if he doesn’t I can personally walk over there and kick his rosey little red tushy!)

Even then, sometimes I work with the US to forgo round one naval purchases with the UK. 60 IPCs makes a much nicer fleet, especially in Iron Wolf where you can use Destroyers, but even so…1 BB + 4 Trannies + whatever fleet the US can bring in (72 IPCs worth, give or take 2 IPCs) and you can bombard.

I dunno, I mean I prefer the US to make the carrier, they have more disposable income and they’ll need the carrier for the Pacific after Europe is gone.

[dezrtfish]

@Jennifer:

kick his rosey little red tushy!

:o Now that is the spirit of Anglo-American Cooperation!

Heheheh… You said tushy!