The map in playtest 9°
M0.Base1940v2.png
M1.OIL1940v2.jpg
Tweaking fleets to historical ratios
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This is totally accurate and posted in another thread about the same thing. All you got to do is take the OOB units and construct ratios that accommodate them. Doing this will discover a few instances where the setup is not accurate in some cases. You have to also downgrade the value of pre-dreadnoughts, but combine them with the Dreadnought count. Combine Battle-cruisers with Dreadnoughts ( the difference is closer to DN than Cruiser). Combine cruisers but note that PC and Other cruisers are typically less than an armored cruiser.
France:
Dreadnought 8
Pre-Dreadnought 14
Battle-cruiser
Armored Cruiser 19
Protected Cruiser 9
Other Cruiser
Destroyer 81
Submarine 70should have in game: 1 DN, 2 AC, 2 DD, 2 SS
2BB, 1 cr
UK:
Dreadnought 22
Pre-Dreadnought 40
Battle-cruiser 9
Armored Cruiser 34
Protected Cruiser 52
Other Cruiser 35
Destroyer 221
Submarine 73should have in game: 4 DN, 5-6 AC, 5 DD, 2 SS
2BB, 5cr
Italy:
Dreadnought 3
Pre-Dreadnought 7
Battle-cruiser
Armored Cruiser 7
Protected Cruiser 11
Other Cruiser 3
Destroyer 33
Submarine 23should have in game: 1 DN, 1 AC, 1 DD ( being very generous)
1BB, 1cr
Russia:
Dreadnought
Pre-Dreadnought 10
Battle-cruiser
Armored Cruiser 6
Protected Cruiser 6
Other Cruiser
Destroyer 25
Submarine 22should have 1 AC, 1 DD
1BB, 2cr
USA:
Dreadnought 10
Pre-Dreadnought 23
Battle-cruiser
Armored Cruiser 12
Protected Cruiser 22
Other Cruiser
Destroyer 50
Submarine 16Should have: 2 DN, 1 AC, 1 DD
1BB, 1cr
Aus-Hun
Dreadnought 6
Pre-Dreadnought 6
Battle-cruiser
Armored Cruiser 2
Protected Cruiser 3
Other Cruiser
Destroyer 18
Submarine 5should have: 1 DN, 1 DD
1BB, 1cr
Germany:
Dreadnought 15
Pre-Dreadnought 22
Battle-cruiser 5
Armored Cruiser 7
Protected Cruiser 17
Other Cruiser 16
Destroyer 90
Submarine 31should have : 3 DN, 1 AC, 3 DD, 1-2 SS
1BB, 2cr + Turk cr (gift)
Ottomans:
Dreadnought
Pre-Dreadnought 2
Battle-cruiser
Armored Cruiser
Protected Cruiser 2
Other Cruiser
Destroyer 8
Submarineshould have: 1 AC
2cr
I also have merchant marine totals by nation, ask and i can post that if need be.
Battleships cruisers What they have OOB
Britain: � 6 Britain: � 7 2BB, 5cr (BB under represented, but understandable)
Germany: � 3 Germany: � 3 1BB, 2cr + Turk cr (gift) (not to far off because UK is reduced)
France: � 2 France: � 2 2BB, 1 cr (over inflated, should be 1 BB, 2 cr)
Austria: � 1 Austria: � 1 1BB, 1cr (good)
Italy: � 1 Italy: � 1 1BB, 1cr (good)
Russia: � 1 Russia: � 1 1BB, 2cr (maybe 1 cr over, but matches the Turks)
USA: � 2 USA: � 2 1BB, 1cr (Atlantic fleet, so good)
Turkey: � 0 Turkey: 1 2cr (over sized but ok, one of them gifted from Germany) -
If you want to expand the history lesson you can also discuss LOCATION!
Example UK:
-> The Indian fleet did not possess any DNs!
-> UK sent a big pre-DN-fleet in the Meditteranean for Gallipoli, the main Grand Fleet was stationed in Scapa Flow.So - of course - no Indian DN!
One DN piece (representing the Pre-DNs) in the Med en route to Alexandria, 2 or 3 DNs depending on how many you want to give them in the Firth of Forth. -
Okay, here is something I don’t get. You divided total battleships by 10 to get roughly what should be in the game setup, yet you divided the total cruisers by 15. Why the different numbers for the two types of ship?
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“Okay, here is something I don’t get. You divided total battleships by 10 to get roughly what should be in the game setup, yet you divided the total cruisers by 15. Why the different numbers for the two types of ship?”
Well, mostly to keep it close to OOB, and because of the limited number of playing pieces included with the game. You could just as well divide by 10 instead of 15 if you want. For cruisers, you’d come up with:
Britain: 10.2 (10)
Germany: 4.7 (5)
France: 2.4 (2)
Austria: 1.1 (1)
Italy: 0.8 (1)
Russia: 1.4 (1)
USA: 3.3 (3)
Turkey: 0.4 (rounded up to 1 by tossing in their single DN and 4 PDNs)Assuming you have enough playing pieces, there is some benefit, IMO, to increasing the raw numbers, while keeping the ratios between nations the same. For one thing, it allows tactical flexibility. You can split off task forces to cover more threats, instead of having to keep all your eggs in one basket. Also, if you end up with a grand Jutland-style slugfest, having more ships present means rolling more dice. The more dice that are rolled, the closer the results will be to the statistical average. Games are less fun (to me, at least) if they are largely decided by a few lucky dice rolls, as opposed to deliberate strategy and tactics.
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Other issues with this is how do you account for British ships in the Pacific? How much of the fleet was over there in WWI?
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http://www.gwpda.org/naval/fdrn0002.htm
Royal Navy ships stationed outside of Home Fleet or the Mediterranean in August, 1914.
NB: this includes ships of the Royal Australian and Royal Canadian Navies.Summarized below:
Australia/New Zealand/China/East Indies: 1 battlecruiser, 14 cruisers
South America: 1 cruiser
North America: 7 cruisers
So that would leave about 80 cruisers between the Home Fleet and the Med. The vast majority (pretty much all) of the British battleships were stationed with the Home Fleet or in the Med, with all the Dreadnaughts operating from the British Isles. This made sense, given the size and relative quality of the German fleet in the Baltic. The construction of the German fleet was one of the causes of the war. The British saw it as a direct challenge to their naval supremacy, which they relied upon to maintain their far-flung empire. Germany (and Italy) were not unified until late in the 19th Century. So they were late to the colonial conquest game. It was assumed Gemany wanted to acquire an empire, but with all the most lucrative and strategically located colonies in Africa and Asia already taken, the only way to achieve this would be to grab some colonies from Britain, France, Belgium, Holland, etc. This made the British (and everyone else with colonies) nervous.
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Interesting, thanks!
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So, what about adding 2 dreadnoughts each to the UK & German home fleets?
(along with reducing the French Biscay BB, and maybe the Russia, and adding one to the US fleet)
Would this ruin the game balance, or would the 4 new ships effectively cancel each other out?
Would it make German dominance of the Baltic too easy, or would the UK be able to nip in and smash the rest of the HSF if the Germans sent a task force to the east?
Would a decisive R1 Jutland effectively decide the game right at the beginning?
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Okay, here is something I don’t get. You divided total battleships by 10 to get roughly what should be in the game setup, yet you divided the total cruisers by 15. Why the different numbers for the two types of ship?
It would be more logic to divide by 4 or multiples of that. So 8, 16, 32 would be more appopiate numbers.
UK:
Full Cruiser Squadron = 4 Ships
Full Destroyer Flottilla = 8 ShipsDIfferent number are correct as more powerful ships are accompanied by larger numbers of lesser types.
Say 4 DNs, 8 CR, 16 DS -
I was thinking something along the lines of this. Note that I cut the number of German subs in half (They had less than 30 when the war started). I also put one of their cruisers off the coast of Africa (This represents ships they had there plus the West Indies, as well as the Far East Squadron, which historically made its way to the Atlantic to cause mischief). I also gave the Germans a transport, because it seems implausible they wouldn’t have one. I did not do likewise for the US, since they would not yet have paid the cost of diverting civlian ships to military use. I also subtracted 1 British cruiser and half the US Navy to represent units assigned to the Pacific. Does anyone see any obvious game breakers here?
Austria-Hungary
• Sea Zone 18: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Russian Empire
• Sea Zone 12: 1 Battleship
• Sea Zone 21: 1 Cruiser
Germany
• Sea Zone 5: 1 Submarine
• Sea Zone 7: 1 Submarine
• Sea Zone 10: 3 Battleships, 2 Cruisers, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 24: 1 Cruiser
France
• Sea Zone 15: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 16: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 2 Transports
British Empire
• Sea Zone 2: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 9: 4 Battleships, 3 Cruisers, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 19: 2 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
• Sea Zone 29: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
Ottoman Empire
• Sea Zone 20: 1 Cruiser
Italy
• Sea Zone 17: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport
United States
• Sea Zone 1: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser -
Seems a little too many UK BBs for balance; I’d have 3 in the home fleet, 1 in the med.
OR split up the home fleet with some ships in SZ 8? (and start a German BB in SZ11?)
The German cruiser off Africa I’d place in SZ 26, within striking distance of the British Med fleet:
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France should not have 3 transports
Just split the uk home fleet into 2-3 SZs like in G40
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Too many DNs makes shore bombardment FAR too strong!
I agree with Flashman for UK:
3 DNs Home Fleet, 1 in the Med;
all other nations accordingly!Without detailed check IL’s numbers seem fine!
(I would distribute submarines differently though) -
If you add all sorts of new ships, you need a mechanism to protect the navy from annihilation like allowing ports to safeguard ships from naval combat.
Once a super naval power sacks a poor nation of her navy, the propensity to rebuild over time is impossible. I would have ships in port some protection, either total immunity from naval combat or all ships in port take double hits.
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Perhaps allow ships to be built on land territories as an option. So you can build up a fleet in safety.
While on land, it can’t be attacked, it also can’t move any farther than into the adjacent sea zone.Likewise, if you lose that land territory, you lose that ship as well.
You could start with more ships on the board, if you move some on to land (imagine they are in a dry dock)I don’t think I would allow ships to WILLINGLY move on to land, but only allow new ships to be built there.
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Well you don’t need to use the language “ships on land” just ships in port. If the attached land area is taken the ships are dislodged in the adjacent SZ.
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I guess saving IPCs is how you build a bigger fleet. Sit on a bunch of money, then plop out a bunch of boats.
An easy way to lose the game.
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Don’t the minefield rules already effectively protect ships next to their home port? Or do you think a 1 in 6 chance of losing a ship during movement is an insufficient deterrent? I suppose you could also give ships “in port” a defensive bonus or some sort. Maybe defending cruisers take two hits to destroy, and battleships three? Or, if that is too powerful, perhaps the port acts as a naval version of a tank, and the first hit each round of combat against the defender is ignored?
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If you want to expand the history lesson you can also discuss LOCATION!
Example UK:
-> The Indian fleet did not possess any DNs!
-> UK sent a big pre-DN-fleet in the Meditteranean for Gallipoli, the main Grand Fleet was stationed in Scapa Flow.So - of course - no Indian DN!
One DN piece (representing the Pre-DNs) in the Med en route to Alexandria, 2 or 3 DNs depending on how many you want to give them in the Firth of Forth.History & geography!
Just so you know, Scapa Flow is right in the middle of the Orkney Isles at the north point of Scotland, the Firth of Forth is the mouth of the River Forth at the north end of Edinburgh.
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Don’t the minefield rules already effectively protect ships next to their home port?
They really don’t, all they do is provide ‘road apples’ for enemy fleets
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