Kill America First

[Paksos]

How would you go about a KAF strategy I you’re playing the Axis?

[Cow]

do a basic g1. g2 make like you do sea lion. G3 go to gibraltar, use italy to kill any blockers, shazam. that simple.

[builder_chris2]

@Cow:

do a basic g1. g2 make like you do sea lion. G3 go to gibraltar, use italy to kill any blockers, shazam. that simple.

yup it is that simple.  against a noob.  i’ve done it just like that.  but against anyone else…wont happen.

[captainwalker]

I’m currently playing allies in a game in which my opponent did a succesful J1 attack on Pearl and the Phils. US counter-attacks have failed and the US has had to put all their resources in the Pacific just to build up to take Hawaii back.
If he had moved a German fleet to Gib, instead of doing a G1 on Russia,then he could have attacked Eastern US and most likely taken it…which would have taken the US out of the game.

[Commando Brado]

It seems the US player doesn’t know what they’re doing. Also, how would the Germans move their navy to Gibraltar on Turn 1, without taking out the Brit navy and not get counter-attacked by the Brits? Check out my game in the Forum for the optimal US move. And losing Hawaii is no big deal. You lose the NO and 2 IPC’s for the territory but if you move the US correctly. Japan will lose their navy off Hawaii. Basically, attacking the US before Turn 3 is a bad idea!

[Cow]

You should rephrase that to “attacking hawaii to east usa before turn 3 is a bad idea.”

If you want to win in the pacific as Japan, I suggest going to war round 1 or round 2. I prefer J1 DoW, best opener there is, none of this waiting for the game to begin bs.

Politics is bs. I am so over it when I play the axis. I just G1 and J1 or G2 and J1, latest I ever go is G2 and J2… which is once a blue moon. The only time I ever J3 is so that Germany could do a sea lion (if USA does not have bombers in range of uk then I will DOW J2).
~

Anyway, to take usa, it is usually G4 with very odd circumstances or post sea lion (after you take UK) - this works because you have 8-11 transports or something like that and naval already out there… after you push the Russians away, you can sail for America.

[BJCard]

Well, you’d probably have a German CV, 2 Ftr, 1 BB, 1 CA, 1 DD, 1 SS, 10-11 Transports.  Ideally, you’d have the Italian bomber on Gibraltar with a couple italian DD/SS with the Germans.  The Italian Bmr and ships can be a can opener for US/UK blockers in the Atlantic.

From Gibraltar the Germans can hit WUS, CUS, or Mexico.

This only works if Japan goes full KAF like they are doing in the AAP1940 forum.  For the first two turns seeing Japan go hard against her, the US will probably build heavy in Pacific.  Only on the third turn would the US see the ‘Cat out of the bag’ when Germany moves to Gibraltar.  If Japan can still hit WUS and Germany hits CUS (or EUS if possible).

[Eqqman]

@BJCard:

Only on the third turn would the US see the ‘Cat out of the bag’ when Germany moves to Gibraltar.  If Japan can still hit WUS and Germany hits CUS (or EUS if possible).

I would argue that a savvy player would expect a German attack the minute Japan seriously threatens the USA.  The Pacific `40 stand-alone USA hit won’t work in Global due to the fact that the USA will get $20 more to spend on units once Japan gives its DoW, and the USA has the extra units from C. & E. USA that can move over.  I think the KAF plan in Global requires German help to be successful.

EDIT: Although I should say, that doing this without German help can still be effective.  Use the TTs to do Sea Lion instead and the USA will be too busy with Japan to interfere.

[BJCard]

Right, agree with you Eggman.  This is an “Axis all-in on KAF” with turn 2 being point of no return.  Yes if the US prepares for the KAF then Germany can just do Sealion.  This is similar to the old “Canadian Shield” tactic in Revised… Only possible once per player.

[BJCard]

Well, of course you have to kill all the UK fleet- sacrificing air if necessary.  Typically, the UK is going to buy all infantry or 6 inf/ 1 fighter turn 1 then when seeing a 10 Transport buy, probably buy all infantry.

This gives the UK 3-4 fighters, a DD, and a bomber to hit the fleet- if they don’t scramble turn 1.

Italy can be in Gibraltar turn 2 - remember this is a go for broke strat.  If the UK sees an imminent sealion, they may not even attack sz 97 (taranto)- thus you have a complete italian fleet that can be with the germans off gibraltar turn 3.

[ghr2]

How does a UK1 92 stack work with a KAF?

[knp7765]

Well, more than likely the Italians will throw everything they have at the UK fleet in SZ 92 to keep them from bothering the Germans. In that case, depending on how well the battle goes for the Italian fleet, Italy may not have ships to clear US blockers for Germany.
If that happens, it will delay Germany’s attack on E US another round to G 5 and may make their attack fail since by that time US will be at war, making the extra NO money and be able to spend it all on the Major ICs in E US and C US.
Of course, if that happens, Germany could probably still do Sealion.

[ghr2]

how does italy send more than their 3 planes?  uk blocks the fleet.

[BJCard]

Normally the UK does the Taranto Thing (most likely) or holes up at Cairo.  They cannot know you are doing KAF.  Obviously if they know its KAF ahead of time then they can stop it.

[ghr2]

In my games, its 70-80% 92 stack with the remainder being Taranto Raid.  A good 92 stack allows the UK to: defend from sealion, protect Egypt, and threatens the italian navy.  It usually involves a blocker or 2, and either airbase gib, or stack algeria depending on the situation.

[BJCard]

Wow a stack at 92?  I tried that once and lost Cairo and the Mideast fairly easily.

[Eqqman]

@BJCard:

Wow a stack at 92?  I tried that once and lost Cairo and the Mideast fairly easily.

Yeah I’ve been finding that leaving Italy their BB + 2 TTs is a worse outcome than having the UK Med fleet hit in a SZ97 reprisal.  It might be a smarter play in J1 DoWs when the US can immediately send some help to knock Italy down.

[BJCard]

@Eggman:

@BJCard:

Wow a stack at 92?  I tried that once and lost Cairo and the Mideast fairly easily.

Yeah I’ve been finding that leaving Italy their BB + 2 TTs is a worse outcome than having the UK Med fleet hit in a SZ97 reprisal.  It might be a smarter play in J1 DoWs when the US can immediately send some help to knock Italy down.

Agreed.

[ghr2]

92 has the simultaneous advantage of blocking all of the italian NO’s, holds egypt, and protects from sealion.  The only problem with a 92 stack, is that u can’t grab ethe right away, but italy usually leaves it anyway.  Egypt becomes stacked turn 1, and turn 2, u have 5-6 more planes flying in(unless germany goes for a sealion).  Egypt won’t fall if you play smart.  And this also can allow a turn 1 persia grab with the 98 transport if you dont  need to stack algeria.  The only times I do 97 now, is if there is somehow 100% zero sealion chance, french 93 fleet dead G1, or if Germany has enough air in range if 92, along with me not being able to hold algeria well enough with out compromising sealion defense.

The worst thing that can happen, is if italy stacks hard in alex, sudan, tj, and syria.  He may briefly have Iraq for a turn, but since he gives up his navy for that(loses the chance for other NOs) I would take that trade anyday.

[BJCard]

I don’t see how SZ 92 holds Egypt.  It seems like a very limiting position.  You can’t send your fleet anywhere in the Med from there without fear of German air strike.  It does prevent Italy from taking Gibraltar, I suppose.

Italy played right can simultaneously block your fleet in SZ 92 from hitting SZ 98 when they are ready to take Egypt (Can be as early as Turn 2 if the UK fleet is in 92).  It is also dangerous if German air fly to Africa turn 2.

Massing at SZ 98 with an airbase on turn 2 (with the starting aircraft in the med) does prevent Italy from hitting Egypt.  With an IC turn 2 (or 3) in Egypt, the Axis will not be able to take it for a long time, if at all.

If the land situation in Africa is dealt with early, the UK can build more navy at SZ 98 (perhaps even transports), or send mobile units to help in Russia or India.