Heavy Bombers…

[Mallery29]

I think the Basic game is different from global….how do Heavy Bombers work in Global?  It’s not the 3 dice is it?

[Eqqman]

As I recall, they are extremely nerfed.  You roll 2 dice and pick the best result.

EDIT: verifying with the 2e Europe manual, page 41, that’s exactly how they work.

[knp7765]

Yeah, we have a house rule that Heavy Bombers roll 2 dice and use the result from BOTH dice. Possible 2 hits in combat. In SBRs both dice are added together for total damage, however we don’t add the +2 to the total.
I agree with not giving Heavy Bombers 3 dice like in Classic. That was a bit overwhelming and was almost a game winner by itself. However, I think they should get 2 dice considering the expense it can take to get them. Besides, a Heavy Bomber carries a larger bomb load so it should cause more damage. Picking the best result of 2 dice seems more like a “smart” bomb.

[Guest]

The moment US get heavybombers they should buy heavybombers only.  :-)

[Mallery29]

@ErwinRommel:

The moment US get heavybombers they should buy heavybombers only.  :-)

Problem for the Allies is that Germany just got it  :evil:

[Cow]

Heavy bombers are still good despite nerf.

[Guest]

Yea, you got to hate a unit that hits 8/9 :-)

[Lieutenant Stove]

I’d rather get heavy bombers than jet fighters… at least you get one almost guaranteed hit.

[gamerman01]

@knp7765:

In SBRs both dice are added together for total damage, however we don’t add the +2 to the total.

Dude, on a lot of rolls, that’s actually weaker than the default rules.

[builder_chris2]

@Mallery29:

I think the Basic game is different from global….how do Heavy Bombers work in Global?  It’s not the 3 dice is it?

in G40, regular bombers work that you roll 1d6 and add 2 to the damage.  so they do 1d6+2

the rules for the strategic bombing do say that heavy bombers just roll 2d6 and pick the best of the two.  BUT…we play they still get the +2  so they should be getting 2d6 (pick the best roll) and add 2.

thats not the rule for heavy bombers?

[gamerman01]

You’re playing it right, chris.  Take the best of 2 dice, and then add 2 to that.  So your range is still from 3 to 8 damage.

[knp7765]

@Gamerman01:

@knp7765:

In SBRs both dice are added together for total damage, however we don’t add the +2 to the total.

Dude, on a lot of rolls, that’s actually weaker than the default rules.

Yeah, I know there is a possibility of rolling snake eyes so you only get 2 damage. However, there is also the possibility of rolling boxcars for 12 points of damage. We just didn’t feel right adding another 2 points to that.

[gamerman01]

I believe any time one of your dice is a 1, it would be less damage

1,1 = 2 damage instead of 3
1,2 = 3 damage instead of 4
1,3 = 4 damage instead of 5
1,4 = 5 damage instead of 6
1,5 = 6 damage instead of 7
1,6 = 7 damage instead of 8

Let’s see…. so any time one of the dice is a 2 and your other dice is >1, it’s doing the same damage

2,2 = 4 damage, would be 4 anyway
2,3 = 5 damage, would be 5 anyway
2,4 = 6 damge, would be 6
2,5 = 7 damage, would be 7
2,6 = 8 damage, would be 8

I’m not suggesting that you add 2 to the total of 2 dice.
I’m merely pointing out that on several different rolls your rule is actually causing less damage than the 2nd edition rules  :-)

So any time one of the 2 dice is a 1, you are actually nerfing heavy bombers even further.  Any time one of the dice is a 2, you are not making them any deadlier than the normal rules.

Anyway, I’m not sure you realized that it’s not just with snake-eyes that you’re doing even less damage.
6 out of 36 possible rolls you are actually doing less damage, and 5 out of 36 rolls you are not increasing the damage at all.
Which means 25/36 rolls you are increasing the damage by 1 to 4 points.

Your house rule does increase damage a little bit on average.  It just strikes me as funny that your remedy to reduce the nerf on heavy bombers actually increases the nerf 1/6 of the time on SBR  :-)

[ch0senfktard]

@Gamerman01:

I didn’t analyze it thorougly to make sure, but I believe any time one of your dice is a 1, it would be less damage

1,1 = 2 damage instead of 3
1,2 = 3 damage instead of 4
1,3 = 4 damage instead of 5
1,4 = 5 damage instead of 6
1,5 = 6 damage instead of 7
1,6 = 7 damage instead of 8

I’m not suggesting that you add 2 to the total of 2 dice.
I’m merely pointing out that on several different rolls your rule is actually causing less damage than the 2nd edition rules  :-)

Yes, however…
knp’s rules: 2-12 damage
actual rule: 3-8 damage

So, he’s likely to cause more damage than the official rules allow.

[gamerman01]

You’re right - I was editing my post while you were typing yours.  I was never intending to say it didn’t do more damage on average, just that it’s funny that 1/6 of the time it does even LESS  :lol:

So here’s my suggestion, knp.  When you roll a 1 in SBR damage, make it +1 to the total of your 2 dice, and then you will always have the same damage or more as the nerfed 2nd edition “heavies”!  :-)

Read my post again, fktard - I had edited it - thanks

[gamerman01]

My bad - my math was incorrect.

You will get the same or less damage with your house rule more often than I had previously thought!

You will get 1 less damage 11/36 of the time (you will roll a 1)
You will get the same damage 9/36 of the time (you will roll a 2, excluding when you also roll a 1)
You will get 1 more damage 7/36 of the time (you roll a 3, excluding 1’s and 2’s)
You will get 2 more damage 5/36 of the time
You will get 3 more damage 3/36 of the time
You will get 4 more damage 1/36 of the time

Weighted average calculation:
-1 * 11
0 * 9
1 * 7
2 * 5
3 * 3
4 * 1

Total is 19.  Divide that by 36 and you have .53 more damage on average.  Now that’s probably what you wanted, and that’s great, but I’m only saying that

11/36 times it does LESS damage, and 9/36 times it makes no difference.

Please don’t take offense - I’m not trying to make you look stupid and me look smart, I just enjoyed tackling the math problem and puzzle of figuring out the difference between best of 2 dice and add 2, and total of 2 dice.

Thanks

[knp7765]

@Gamerman01:

Please don’t take offense - I’m not trying to make you look stupid and me look smart, I just enjoyed tackling the math problem and puzzle of figuring out the difference between best of 2 dice and add 2, and total of 2 dice.

Thanks

Well, I’m glad you don’t want me to look stupid, because I certainly don’t need your help to do that….DUUHHH! (ha ha)
Actually, you bring up a good point. It is incredibly frustrating when you finally get heavy bombers, do an SBR, get through interceptors and AA fire, just to end up rolling something like a “1” and a “3” for your trouble.
I think I will make the following adjustment to my house rule for Heavy Bombers:
If either one of the dice rolled comes up a “1”, then add +2 to the total damage.
If either one of the dice rolled comes up a “2”, then add +1 to the total damage.
This will ONLY be for the result of one die coming up with a 1 or 2, NOT BOTH.
So if you manage to roll 2 ones, you will still just add +2 to total damage for a total of 4 damage points.
If you manage to roll 2 twos, you will just add +1 to total damage for a total of 5 damage points.
Threes and higher get no bonus.

[gamerman01]

NOW you’ve got HEAVIES!  :-)  :-)
Happy I could help