Very fun new axis strategy. Germany takes india

[Kreuzfeld]

seems a lot of trannies, how about this;
g| major in rumania,  g2 10 mechs/tanks in rumania, g3 take move to grece and take turky, G4 go to iraq, UK now thinks you are going for egypt, you might change your plan and take middle east and egypt and maybe cauc, G4 take east persia, G5/G6 hit india

This is ofcourse dependant on heavy italian canopeners so you can move 2 areas each turn

fun thing about this is that you dont waste 130 IPC on naval, and uk might be guessing wrong about the direction of these forces.

[shrinks]

I finished this exact game last night and it worked very well. But I really liked that tank and mech idea with the italian can-openers

[Cow]

well you usually don’t get to buy 10 transports g2. UK usually has a bomber on malta after uk1. It typically ends up being a carrier buy somewhere in the mix and 7 transports ish.

[pete6982]

This is why I prefer to play to 12 global cities for an axis win.

[zanetheinsane]

Not sure what the Allies are doing in this game, but UK can easily transport troops over from Egypt to India unless Japan is sitting Navy on it. If Japan is sitting Navy on it US could easily go 70%+ Pacific and just take Australia back.

How much are you sending to India? Because with a J2 DOW UK can at least make a grab at money islands. They could easily have 20-30 infantry waiting on India for you (I’m assuming you’re bringing Germany’s planes with you?)

If Germany is sending that much south what is Russia doing? If I saw a G1 factory buy in Romania that means I get to splurge a little bit as Russia. Maybe some mechs, maybe an extra plane. That’s 10 less German infantry I have to worry about. As Russia I generally tend to accumulate and posture so that I have a valid counter-attack against Germany, but if I see them heading south with that many forces I’d almost consider just marching my ass through eastern europe and maybe taking Italy (I have done this before).

People that underestimate Russia’s economy are often surprised when the 30+ dudewall with 30+ artillery comes marching up to their front door.

I mean, if you send everything at India you can’t stop Russia from holding Leningrad, probably taking Norway, Poland, Greece. If you split your forces are you sure you can hold out against the might of Russia and still wipe out the infantry stack that India will surely be building up?

[Kreuzfeld]

I in general don’t like stratigies like this, the are dependent on the opponent not looking carefully your options and missplays. The assume your opponent plays wrong, these plans are usually fairly easily countered,

As russia I would place my stack of unit in bryansk awaiting the attack once I see the factory in rumania, of the beginning units, 7 inf, 2 art, 2 mechs + 2 tanks within reach would be placed there (or within range of rostov),

When russia see a factory in rumania, he would probably build either 11 inf + art or 3 inf + 7 art in ukraine and moscow., on R2, after seeing the 10 trannies, the natural place to place this stack would be in rostov, and building 3 infs in ukraine, 3 arts in stalingrad (or inf if art was built on the first turn) and 4 arts in moscow (or 4 mechs or 1 tank 1 ftr, or 1 bomber 1 mech)

so when you are landing in cauc in G3, the russian counterattack on you will be between (best case) 18 inf, 6 art, 2 mechs, 3 tanks, 2 ftrs and 1 tac, worst case it will be  13 inf 9 art, 2 tanks, 3 ftrs 1 tac.

in both cases the stack that lands in cauc is killed instantly, you have a maximum of 20 land + 4 italian ftrs, and win 32%- 23% chance of winning  of the combats (in the best cases, assuming ussr built no planes and you move 10 inf + 10 tanks, which you dont have), cripleing your entire army and losing your game right there. leaving you with an average of 1 italian fighter after the combat

This plan is dead if the russian plays as defensive as possible, this is how I would play the russians against a factory in rumania, and this is how I would respond to the

[Cow]

I rarely if ever see australia liberated after lost to Japan. It is pretty easy for japan to defend just by buying 3 inf a turn there. Problem is it usually requires the main fleet to be far away from Japan. It is more feasible to convoy japan and take kwangtung/ that other vc away.
~
There is nothing wrong with this strategy. Even if things go awry you can still get solid income from the  middle east as far as europe goes.

It is just the # of spaces between caucasus and india that make it suboptimal. Also the Major Facto and naval investment are issues to it as well. It is a pacific win or bust.

I just prefer to buy all naval and go convoy East USA if I am going to pacific or bust.

[knp7765]

This does sound like an interesting plan. Personally, I would have gone through NW Persia, Persia, E Persia into W India rather than Kazakhstan into Afghanistan into W India so you can get that extra NO money for NW Persia and Persia. Also, you could easily drop off 1 infantry along the way in a NCM to Iraq for an extra 3 infantry, 2 IPCs in territory and 2 IPCs in NO.
The thing with a plan like this is that everything has to go right for it to work. If something does go wrong – like Russia stacking on Rostov and hitting the German force in the Caucasus as soon as it lands, or the US Navy slamming into the Japanese fleet and liberating Sydney, or the US convoy raiding SZ 6 while liberating Hong Kong, Manila and/or Shanghai – then you are really stuck out on a limb. You have to commit too many resources to this plan so there is no going back once you start it. Japan could end up losing most of her navy while Germany could end up getting steamrolled with too much of their army lost in the Caucasus.

[WILD BILL]

This is an interesting theory that has a chance to work (maybe a trick one timer). I think the play of Russia could doom it from the beginning though as mentioned above. They may not see what your true intentions are (India) right from the beginning, but would certainly start bulking up to the south once the major is placed on Romania. We see some games where the Germans build like 3-4 transports in the Black Sea to assault Caucasus then on to the Mid East oil, but if you build 10 transports in the Black Sea I think the gig might be up. The thing is what can they do to stop it. UK could definitely (even unknowingly at first) mess-up your plans.

I was wondering that in the right situation if after building a major IC in Romania G1, say 7 transports in the Black sea on G2 to move slow moving units (probably a carrier to protect your transports), you then take Turkey G3 to unleash your transport fleet. Take Turkey with tanks and German inf walking down from Bulgaria plus air power and German amphib (G1 have inf/art in Berlin migrate towards Romania to load transports G3). Probably start building to def Berlin against inevitable Russian invasion at this point. Maybe have Italy clear Greece and strafe Turkey to preserve German units? With access to the Med G4 capture Egypt (if not already in Italian hands). Then through the Suez into the Mid East G5 (maybe even build an IC in Mid East for reinforcements?). G6 amphib India along with any faster moving units plowing through axis Turkey and the Luftwaffe. Both Italy & Japan might be able to aid with taking out road blocks, lending you ships to def your German navy, or air units to protect ground units or perform air sweeps etc….

Much would depend on when the US comes into play and where they spend their income (J2 or J3 attack). If when Turkey is attacked, the Germans could also kill/claim Sweden and set-up for Spain becoming allies.

Taking Sidney isn’t a cake walk either (they will see the transport fleet and pull in all resources), but with the full brunt of Japanese power it will probably fall (but I wouldn’t plan on having a lot of ground units left after the amphib). Once you kill off an Anz blocker ship J2 (and there will probably be one) the US is at war w/full income. If you go full force to Caroline Isle though, they will most likely back off the smaller the US fleet to San Fran giving you some time before they come at you full force. The Germans attacking Turkey G3 may confuse them though, and they could make some mistakes not seeing the strict neutrals come into play very often.

I’d say it’s probably easier to have Japan help with a VC win on the Euro side. Look like they are going full India crush, then side step India too migrate into the Mid East with intentions of taking Egypt, and maybe Stalingrad.

BTW this is also the reason that I don’t like how you can get a VC win on Pac (6 VC), and Europe (8 VC) because it generally involves an axis power completely selling out their side of the board to help their partner win on the other. Either the Japanese air strike Moscow to soften them up, losing the entire Japanese air force. Not caring if you just sacrificed your fleet because your buddy is going to win the game etc… So unhistorical it makes me LOL. With that said though, both the Japanese and Germans had their eye on the Jewel of the Commonwealth Empire (India). They even had some join ventures planned early in the war. Including a German (spy’s) led government coup to spark a revolution, aided by a Japanese naval blockade/invasion (thinking was that India itself wanted to be free of their suppressors). The Japanese infighting with-in changed their mind (ships were turn back), and decided to go island hopping instead. Although India fought very effectively for the Commonwealth, there were many POWs from the African campaigns that tuned to the dark side.

[Karl7]

Germany taking India was a classic strategy in the classic edition.  The difference there was of course the amount of spaces from Germany to India: 5.  Now its like 11, depending.

In G40 India is weak.  I’ve never seen India hold against a concerted Japanese thrust.  I think sending the Germans on such a wild diversion would probably be too costly in that it would allow the USSR and other allies time to pile on in Western and eastern Europe.

[WILD BILL]

I think your right Karl, most of Europe would probably fall to the allies, but could the Germans hold Berlin long enough for the Pac win? It can even be difficult for the Japanese to drop India with everything they have at their disposal, so could the Germans do it turn 6,7 or 8? I do like to explore different paths though (keeps the game fresh). Some off the wall strat can be a lot of fun compared to the old basic full blown Barbarossa etc… You may not win, but hey you got them back peddling for a few turns, and almost pulled it off. The only thing at stake is who supplies the beer for the next game, and I own a Party Store  :-D

[Cow]

Once australia is lost, liberating it with usa rarely if ever happens. I have lost sydney as USA before and I have taken it as Japan before. What happens is the americans convoy japan and work on other vcs. It is too easy to defend australia with Japan. 1) lots of air to park 2) 3 inf a turn.

So yes you want to rush a convoy on Japan so you can take back the other vcs within 2-3 spaces from japan seazone (there are 3).

[Jennifer]

For the record, and I didnt read everyone’s post so dont yell at me if I am repeating you, but Japan need not worry about protecting their new transports purchased on round one.  There is literally nothing that can possibly hit them in any direction or manner.

Other that that, I am wondering what the point is on taking India with Germany.  Other than the “cool…” factor of course.

[Cow]

Jen, I can’t recall anyone talking about defending japan transports… You do need to defend round 1 transport buys if you DOW J1, just takes a couple destroyers and 3 fighters…

The point of getting it with germany is so that Japan can get Hawaii or Sydney and claim a pacific VC win quickly.

The blatantly obvious flaws have been pointed out so far. Russians attack germans after they land in caucasus… that was the big flaw.

I prefer to convoy East USA with germany… just my preference if I am going all out for the pacific win.

[Jennifer]

Go back and reread the opening post, he talked about splitting the Japanese fleet up round 1 to protect the 3 new transports.  Can’t remember if he said to DOW J1, but I don’t think he did.

Okay, diverting attention so that Japan can focus Australia makes some sense, but it’s not that easy.  Too easy for the United States to run down some warships, planes and ground troops, and move them back up to Hawaii.  You need more subterfuge - or at least when I win in the Pacific (which is darn close to the only time I win with the Axis lately) I need to be sneaky and sleazy and underhanded to do it.

[Cow]

Why do you have such a hard time winning with the axis? It is so easy.

[Jennifer]

I must only play the best allied players then.  Of course, it could also be that I hate doing what everyone else does so I do new stuff.

[Cow]

Yeah I don’t always do sea lion feign armor/mech take russia round 6-8 and J1 DOW. Sometimes I J2 DOW. Sometimes I go through with sea lion. Sometimes I convoy East USA with Germany and go all out for the pacific win.

You just need to have a plan for how you are going to obtain a VC win. There are only so many VCs so strategies are somewhat limited in that sense.

The intention of this strategy is to secure a fast pacific win in under 10 rounds. It is much like the convoy east usa strategy.

I would consider this “new stuff.” I prefer the term “fun strategy.” If I only cared about winning with the least amount of risk sign me up for sea lion feign to barb and J1 or J2 DOW.

[Spendo02]

@Cmdr:

Other that that, I am wondering what the point is on taking India with Germany.  Other than the “cool…” factor of course.

I didn’t see the time frame that Germany intends to take India, but I would surmise that its a ploy to allow Japan to fry other fish in the Pacific for an Axis win in the Pacific?

Although if the German Air Force is anywhere other than in Europe I’d presume the US would make full investments into the Pacific to prevent the Axis win in the Pacific.