Global 2nd edition Q+A ( AAG40.2)

[boldfresh]

wait. here is what i mean.  if germany attacked spain and didn’t conquer it, can RUSSIA land aircraft there on it’s immediately following turn?

[Krieghund]

Kcdzim is correct.

You don’t “declare war” on neutral territories - you simply attack them.  Attacking a neutral territory immediately converts that territory to the opposite alliance.  All of the other neutral territories remain neutral (but become unfriendly to you), and you still can’t fly over them as long as they remain so.

@Boldfresh:

wait. here is what i mean.  if germany attacked spain and didn’t conquer it, can RUSSIA land aircraft there on it’s immediately following turn?

Yes, as Spain is now part of the Allies.

[boldfresh]

wait, please hang on there krieg. i have follow up questions.

[boldfresh]

if spain is immediately part of the allies, who controls those infantry?  or are you saying they get activated similarly to a friendly neutral and whoever activates it gets those infantry?  so they are like a pro-allied neutral that you can land aircraft in?

so that territory could be landed in by multiple allied aircraft of various powers but the infantry still remain uncontrollable to the allies until they are activated by a land unit?

and if germany were to attack spain it’s turn, you are saying that ONLY spain becomes “friendly” ie aircraft can land in it, but the other neutrals only become pro-allied (ie air cannot land in them right away OR on the turn they are activated)?

and if germany attacks spain but does not conquer it, it is true that german aircraft can fly over spain in noncombat?

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

if spain is immediately part of the allies, who controls those infantry?  or are you saying they get activated similarly to a friendly pro-allied neutral and whoever activates it gets those infantry?  so they are like a pro-allied neutral that you can land aircraft in?

so that territory could be landed in by multiple allied aircraft of various powers but the infantry still remain uncontrollable to the allies until they are activated by a land unit?

and if germany were to attack spain it’s turn, you are saying that ONLY spain becomes “friendly” ie aircraft can land in it, but the other neutrals only become pro-allied (ie air cannot land in them right away OR on the turn they are activated)?

and if germany attacks spain but does not conquer it, it is true that german aircraft can fly over spain in noncombat?

[gamerman01]

@Boldfresh:

if spain is immediately part of the allies, who controls those infantry?  or are you saying they get activated similarly to a friendly neutral and whoever activates it gets those infantry?  so they are like a pro-allied neutral that you can land aircraft in?

The allies control those infantry.  They can’t be moved, so it doesn’t matter - they don’t belong to a certain power.  It is NOT similar to activating a friendly neutral in this way.

so that territory could be landed in by multiple allied aircraft of various powers but the infantry still remain uncontrollable to the allies until they are activated by a land unit?

Right.

and if germany were to attack spain it’s turn, you are saying that ONLY spain becomes “friendly” ie aircraft can land in it, but the other neutrals only become pro-allied (ie air cannot land in them right away OR on the turn they are activated)?

and if germany attacks spain but does not conquer it, it is true that german aircraft can fly over spain in noncombat?

This was the original question, and he didn’t answer it.  kcd and I are thinking yes, but we can’t remember for sure.

[gamerman01]

@Boldfresh:

wait. here is what i mean.  if germany attacked spain and didn’t conquer it, can RUSSIA land aircraft there on it’s immediately following turn?

Yes, that’s exactly what I was trying to say.  In my example, it was USA attacking Spain.  Then Italy (and Germany and Japan) can land aircraft in Spain after that. (If USA failed to take it)

[boldfresh]

ok, but the infantry are to remain just a neutral standing army.  and that is true only of a true neutral that is actually attacked by the axis.  the rest of the neutrals become pro-allied neutrals.

[boldfresh]

so which allied country gets the INCOME from that friendly neutral?  this is mind boggling.  :lol: :lol:

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

if spain is immediately part of the allies, who controls those infantry?  or are you saying they get activated similarly to a friendly neutral and whoever activates it gets those infantry?  so they are like a pro-allied neutral that you can land aircraft in?

The allies control those infantry.  They can’t be moved, so it doesn’t matter - they don’t belong to a certain power.  It is NOT similar to activating a friendly neutral in this way.

these quotations are driving me nuts.  so are you saying that the allies will never truly control those infantry, and they can never leave the country.  so those white men just sit there until the country is conquered by the axis.  in the meantime, can the country’s income be tapped normally, by whichever allied nation sets foot in it first with a land unit?

[gamerman01]

You’re getting more confused…  Have you tried reading about unfriendly neutrals and true neutrals in the rule book?  That should help.

I can go over an example with you that should clear it all up.  Give me a second.

[boldfresh]

yes i read the rulebook it’s pretty sparse when it comes to neutrals.

[gamerman01]

“When a neutral territory is invaded, its standing army units are immediately placed in it.  Use any nationality’s infantry units to represent this neutral force.  In each case, appoint one of the players on the opposite side to control the neutral’s units.  This player places the neutral units on the board and manages them when they conduct combat.  Don’t mix or confuse the neutral units with the units of another power, including the power managing the neutral’s pieces on the board.”

This is needlessly detailed (no offense, Krieg).  It’s just saying that defending neutral armies stay neutral.  I mean, what does it matter who removes the neutral infantry as they get killed?  There are no decisions to make - no casualty choices.

“Capturing an unfriendly neutral gives the capturing player the IPC income of the territory.  The invading power places its national control marker on the territory, and its national production level is adjusted upward by the value of the captured territory.”

Note that if you fail to capture it, then obviously you don’t control it, so you don’t get the income.

“If the attack upon the neutral territory is unsuccessful (the territory is not captured), it’s no longer considered neutral and becomes part of the alliance opposing the power that attacked it.  For example, if Germany attacked Yugoslavia but failed to capture it, after the attack Yugoslavia would join the Allies.  Any remaining defending units stay in the territory, but can’t move.  The territory remains uncontrolled, but units from the side it’s now allied with can move into it and take control of it and its remaining units in the same way as if it were a friendly neutral.”
Without specifically saying it, this is saying that you can land aircraft in the territory (it’s friendly to your side now) but that of course does not give you control.  Also, if you did get a land unit into it, then the neutral infantry would join the power that took control.

I see I mis-spoke before when I said the country can’t be “activated”, because it can.  I’ll clear that up now.

[gamerman01]

@Boldfresh:

yes i read the rulebook it’s pretty sparse when it comes to neutrals.

But it answers most of your questions!  :-)

[Jeff28]

But when Spain now becomes allied to the other side, can’t the side that didn’t attack it move in and activate it or any other neutral and then move the infantry around just like activating any other friendly power?

Now I’m confused?

[boldfresh]

yes, i agree it answers most of my questions.  what i was confused about what what you were saying before.  so based on the rules explanation, if germany attacked spain but did not conquer it, spain becomes a friendly neutral upon which you are saying allied aircraft can land.  apparently friendly neutral is different from pro-allied neutral?  because the allies cannot land in pro-allied neutrals until the allies have entered the neutral with a land unit on a previous turn and hold the territory at the start of the turn of the power who is landing air in the territory…  man this is mashing my brain something fierce…

[boldfresh]

i question if it is clear that aircraft can land in the territory until it is entered by allied land units.  let me go back to see what krieg said again…

[gamerman01]

OK, so on G1 Germany invades Yugoslavia.

Say they hit and run, leaving 1 surviving infantry in Yugoslavia.
Before the noncombat movement phase, Yugoslavia is no longer neutral.  It is an alliied territory, but not controlled by any of the allies.  Germany could fly aircraft over Yugoslavia on G1 non-combat movement (doesn’t help them, but that’s not the point.  The point is, they can)

Yugoslavia is now considered a part of the Allies (but no one gets its income).  It’s not neutral anymore, so anyone can fly over it just as you fly over any Axis or Ally’s territory during normal game play.

On UK1, the UK COULD land aircraft in Yugoslavia.  It is now friendly to the allies.
As long as Yugoslavia is not conquered by an Axis power, an Allied power could activate it by getting a ground unit there.  They would then convert the surviving infantry to their own infantry, take control of the territory, increasing IPC income by 2 for that Allied power.

[gamerman01]

@Jeff28:

But when Spain now becomes allied to the other side, can’t the side that didn’t attack it move in and activate it or any other neutral and then move the infantry around just like activating any other friendly power?

YES, you’re right.  I’m sorry, I mis-spoke once before

Now I’m confused?

I mis-spoke when I said it couldn’t be “activated”.  See the red correction below, please.

[boldfresh]

@Krieghund:

Kcdzim is correct.

You don’t “declare war” on neutral territories - you simply attack them.� Attacking a neutral territory immediately converts that territory to the opposite alliance.� All of the other neutral territories remain neutral (but become unfriendly to you), and you still can’t fly over them as long as they remain so.

@Boldfresh:

wait. here is what i mean.�� if germany attacked spain and didn’t conquer it, can RUSSIA land aircraft there on it’s immediately following turn?

Yes, as Spain is now part of the Allies.

so based on this, there is a difference between a true neutral that has been attacked by the axis and the rest of the true neutrals.  the one directly attacked immediately can be landed in by allied planes (no land unit taking and subsequent turn required).  the rest of the true neutrals then become pro-allied neutrals immediately (which means air cannot land in them until they are activated by land units, and even then, not on the turn on which they were activated).

now, the final piece to the puzzle…  a territory that starts the game pro allied (can we say yugo), that the axis attacks with a hit and run and leaves say, 4 infantry remaining.  can the allies now land planes directly onto yugo?  or is this something that is specific only to a TRUE neutral that has been attacked but not conquered?