mel… I guess I should’ve remembered there’s more that one.
US versus China for world position
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LOL> Jordan just raised gas prices and the country just went bonkers. Huge protests in the streets, and they got it cheap.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-11-15/jordanians-call-for-more-protests-over-price-hikes.
You think they pay $5.00 or something.
Unleaded 90 octane 0.800 JD / liter
Unleaded 95 octane 1.015 JD / liter
Diesel, Kerosene 0.685 JD / liter
Cooking Gas 10 JD / cylinder1 Jordanian dinar = 1.4124 US dollars
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IL, for the most part that article talks about the price of gas as in cooking and heating fuel. The rest of the world talks of petrol whereas its gas to us north americans. A rise of 54% of a basic commodity like heating and cooking fuel that has inelastic price/demand curve disproportionately affects poor people. The average Jordanian probably spends a great deal more of their budget on heating and cooking fuel then petrol considering the average Jordanian doesn’t have a car. A good political move to take advantage of it.
You think they pay $5.00 or something.
Il, I’m not sure who you are referring to or who the ‘they’ is since the only person so far to mention Jordan is you. Now Iran had some demonstrations lately over petrol subsidy reductions, petrol there is dirt cheap!
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Mr Crunch,
In the middle of the second page, for example, you said the way around one of the problems with China was …
"I said it before and will say it again, instead of gutting US environmental laws (and labour laws), enforce them on Chinese companies and products. "
This is the sort of thing I shared when I observed that your solutions sound like the Bullying that folks complain about when they talk about the power and influence of the US. You asked (on page 5) that I provide an example, so there you are.
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Fuel went up only 10%, The cost of cooking oil/gas did go up by 50%, but what they pay already is very low compared to us.
They= people of Jordan.
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Mr. Dinosaur. Placing tariffs on products that are dumped below market costs or that are produced with slave labour is hardly bullying in the same way that over throwing a government in order to support commercial interests is, such as what happened to Iran in 1953 at the hands of the…I will be gracious…at the hands of the west. Some people in some countries in the middle east feel the US is keeping unpopular rulers in power such as Bahrain, if that were true that would classify as bullying. But not buying say unsafe products that kill your citizens cause they are made of poison…not bullying. Protecting domestic workers because China is willing to poison their country and have unsafe working conditions ain’t bullying in my books, its treating another nations people as you would treat your own. Bullying is when you enforce a double standard, support a tyrant against his own people. Russia is acting like a bully for its actions in Syria, so is China. Of course that is not much of a double standard if you ask the people of Chechnya or Tiananmen square I suppose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d’%C3%A9tat
dinosaur, you asserted that I suggested that the US be the world’s police force, it was to this I asked you to cite your references, not comparing environmental tariffs to bullying.
A slow moving game of chess.
US pivots, China bristles
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20387131
I believe the US is moving its pawns into position, a well played game. A chess analogy and in no way a maligning comment on the US, rather a bit of appreciation for a game well played.
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Some people in some countries in the middle east feel the US is keeping unpopular rulers in power
And they support this view because they have other axes to grind, mainly an anti-western crusade
But not buying say unsafe products that kill your citizens cause they are made of poison…not bullying.
Id rather have bullying than killing people so cheap goods could be sold.
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@Imperious:
And they support this view because they have other axes to grind, mainly an anti-western crusade
http://gbk.eads.usaidallnet.gov/data/files/us_military_historical.xls
Foreign military aid FY2010:
Bahrain $19.7 million
Egypt $1.3 billion
Israel $2.8 billion
Jordan $303.8 million
Oman $10.4 millionCan you understand how even unbiased people might come to associate the United States with Middle Eastern governments?
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Israel $2.8 billion
And they support this view because they have other axes to grind, mainly an anti-western crusade or hate Israel and since we are her friend , we become their enemy.
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Why couldn’t they support that view on it’s own merits given the last 70 years of US involvement in the Middle East?
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Tying back to the OP (since I didn’t mean to derail), I was trying to find figures on Chinese foreign military aid (i.e. from China to elsewhere).
Interesting article about US/Chinese interest in Pakistan.
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/sorry-pakistan-china-no-sugar-daddy
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Alright. I’ve edited this topic heavily, and tried and remove both the political aspects earlier in the thread, as well as the heated debate that happened in the middle of the thread. This topic is concerned with China and US and how they are developing themselves currently as world super powers. This thread is not concerned with bashing America, nor necessarily with bashing China. If we talk about human rights implications, that is fine, but understand that allowing that line of discussion is in line with discussing how that affects their position instead of making generalizations about the people groups, cultures, etc.
I am not bringing this topic back to appease members. I am not bringing this topic back to spite members. I never considered the topic a total failure, i.e. a politically charged topic bound to result in debate. I just realized I had let go of my duty as a moderator to keep track of it, and subsequently it had gotten out of hand. I will be monitoring this thread as I do all general discussions.
Post away.
GG
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@Guerrilla:
Alright. I’ve edited this topic heavily, and tried and remove both the political aspects earlier in the thread, as well as the heated debate that happened in the middle of the thread. This topic is concerned with China and US and how they are developing themselves currently as world super powers. This thread is not concerned with bashing America, nor necessarily with bashing China. If we talk about human rights implications, that is fine, but understand that allowing that line of discussion is in line with discussing how that affects their position instead of making generalizations about the people groups, cultures, etc.
I am not bringing this topic back to appease members. I am not bringing this topic back to spite members. I never considered the topic a total failure, i.e. a politically charged topic bound to result in debate. I just realized I had let go of my duty as a moderator to keep track of it, and subsequently it had gotten out of hand. I will be monitoring this thread as I do all general discussions.
Post away.
GG
BURN IT!!! BURN IT ALL!!!
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@Young:
BURN IT!!! BURN IT ALL!!!
I’m with garsshopper on this one, BURN IT TO THE GROUND!!!
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Hey, read the subject, this ain’t no Fahrenheit 451 sequel! :mrgreen:
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Everyone knows they are doing it but nobody dares to ask them to stop?
China military unit 'behind prolific hacking
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Everyone knows they are doing it but nobody dares to ask them to stop?
China military unit 'behind prolific hacking
I imagine we have imbedded units trying to break into their infrastructure and gain definitive proof. It kind of shows that they have a significant weakness in some R&D if they are having to cheat their way into the 21st Century. Holding debt is only one piece of the domination puzzle. Otherwise, why risk the espionage? Especially with the possible reparations.
GG
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Especially with the possible reparations.
If only there actually was a penalty. Ever hear of Nortel? Used to be Canada’s #1 tech company.
It was actually when US newspapers started reporting on the personal wealth of Chinese leaders that the hacking story started getting traction.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/01/31/new-york-times-hacking/1879585/
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In the Nortel case, was it ever connected to the Chinese government? Granted, I do think the US is more likely to react if they found out it was an Aerospace or Defense Contractor somewhere in the AngloAmerican Sphere, but China can just call foul on their constituency, which they cannot find.
GG
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GG, the articles I cited directly pointed the finger at China. China can claim it’s the actions of their private citizens….who have to bypass the great firewall of China.
China is targeting “Aerospace or Defense Contractor somewhere in the AngloAmerican Sphere”
Happens every day
Just in today’s headlines:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21556611
An old article but funny Microsoft software runs US aircraft carriers….
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GG, the articles I cited directly pointed the finger at China. China can claim it’s the actions of their private citizens….who have to bypass the great firewall of China.
China is targeting “Aerospace or Defense Contractor somewhere in the AngloAmerican Sphere”
Happens every day
Just in today’s headlines:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21556611
An old article but funny Microsoft software runs US aircraft carriers….
I understand that, as far as the original article. The Nortel article doesn’t state it was the government, “just hackers apparently based in China carried on a decade-long campaign of stealing technical papers, R&D reports, employee e-mails, and other sensitive documents from the network company.” No governmental ties, or none stated. You seem to be stating that the Nortel case was an example of no penalty being ascribed to a government, yet in all honesty it would be against individuals within the government’s jurisdiction doing illegal activity.
In the unit 69318 case, they haven’t definitively proven that, so of course no sanctions. I don’t doubt the Anglo-American sphere are trying to imbed operatives to figure out if there is a link. The second the US has a lock for that the Chinese government hacked into Lockheed and stole plans for the F-35, I have no doubt there will be embargoes to pay for Chinese goods.
GG
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