Research & Development Discussion - Delta+1

[JimmyHat]

Whats hard about this is that we are making a rule that has the intent of breaking the game.  Isn’t that what tech does?  Hence why it needs so much additional information, like countries that cannot tech, cannot tech while not at war, etc.  Perhaps putting a limit on saved money is the way to go, this rule is a muddy puddle already so why try and clear the water?

[Jennifer]

@JimmyHat:

Whats hard about this is that we are making a rule that has the intent of breaking the game.  Isn’t that what tech does?  Hence why it needs so much additional information, like countries that cannot tech, cannot tech while not at war, etc.  Perhaps putting a limit on saved money is the way to go, this rule is a muddy puddle already so why try and clear the water?

I think Technology Finishes the game.  What breaks it is not having technology - personally if I wanted to play where you cannot do technology research, I would be happier giving everyone all the technologies right out of the starting gate.  It feels gimped without having technology.

[Guest]

@Cmdr:

5. Improved Naval Bases (Combine the following):

• Improved Warships
  ** Battleships now contain an Anti-Aircraft Gun.  For each defending battleship, you may now fire at up to 3 attacking aircraft during opening fire.
  ** Submarines now cost 5.
  ** Aircraft Carriers may now recover fighters when damaged.
  ** Cruisers now cost 9 IPC, move 3 spaces (regardless of if there is a naval base to launch from or not.)
  ** Destroyers may now shore bombard at 2 or less.
  ** Transports may now carry and two ground units, regardless of type.

Jenn, how come getting this naval technology gives you 6 things and all the other techs have just 2 things?  It seems like a lot

Also, would it reduce confusion if we stick to technologies that are in the optional OOB tech system in the Europe 1940 manual?  In the case of naval technology, that would be “super submarines” and “improved shipyards”.  As far as I can tell, all of the other ones you have are close to what is in the rulebook, but not these naval ones.

[Guest]

@Cmdr:

Free dice are determined by the following chart:

• $10 - 49 IPC = 1 Roll

• $50 - 89 IPC = 2 Rolls

• $90 - 119 IPC = 3 Rolls

• $120 - 149 IPC = 4 Rolls

• $150 - 224 IPC = 5 Rolls

• $225 + IPC = 6 Rolls

Jenn, is it necessary to give so many free dice to countries with ridiculous piles of IPCs?  How about if it was:

• $10 - 49 IPC = 1 Roll

• $50 - 99 IPC = 2 Rolls

• $100 or more = 3 Rolls

50 and 100 are easy to remember round figures.

[Jennifer]

Well, I had the one thought that you get one part (which part we can determine later) with free dice, but purchased dice gives you all of it (and the only way to get all of it.)  I don’t think the comment originally got much traction, except some profanity from someone I’d rather not mention - like ever again, if I can help it.  Perhaps we should revisit this and determine which of the technologies are the weaker half, if neither are weaker which is more defensive in nature, and then make that the “free” dice technology.  We could denote it with green letters and have the rest in blue letters to denote that.  If so, I would say that paid dice rolls qualify for full technologies (both halves) but free dice rolls only count for their half - even if you already have all 6.  This violates the KISS theory and I expect Jimmy to nail us for the idea, but I think it’s a valid idea.  I also feel if we stick with KISS, it should be all or nothing then.

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In regards to the warships, we can look at the text.  I tried to incorporate as many ideas as I could from all the ones mentioned in the Delta 1 thread and the Delta 1 R&D thread except if they doubled up on each other (like carriers being carrying 3 fighters and being able to recover fighters when damaged.)  In those cases I just made a judgement call and waited for someone to complain.  However, the actual technology should effect each ship type, just as it does in the regular rules.  Question is, should it improve the ship or should it reduce the cost?  Many of the ones listed don’t decrease the cost at all, just give the ships a bit more functionality. In fact, only Submarines and Cruisers have a price reduction at all, the rest only have increased abilities.  Example:  Transports still cost 7 IPC, but now can carry two tanks, or Battleships still cost 20 IPC, but can now fire as if they were an Alpha 3 AA Gun.  etc.

I just wanted to raise that issue - I did not want people thinking you got a price reduction AND a new ability, and this technology is really the only one that effects sea going vessels - the rest are all Air and Land power technologies.

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As for threshholds for tiers, I have no problem with changing it.  We’re talking a minor adjustment and you are right, it’s easier to remember for every 50 IPC you get 1 technology die roll for free.

$10 - 49 IPC = 1 Roll
$50 - 99 IPC = 2 Rolls
$100 - 149 IPC = 3 Rolls
$150 - 199 IPC = 4 Rolls
$200 - 249 IPC = 5 Rolls
$250 + IPC = 6 Rolls

(Just for completeness, I’d go to 6 rolls, since there are 6 technologies - it makes a nice symmetry.  Obviously, if you earn 250 IPC, then you won the game, there are only 241 IPC worth of land values that the Axis and Allies control.  Even if you factor in Neutrals and National Objectives, you pretty much control the whole board at those levels.)

[Guest]

@Cmdr:

Well, I had the one thought that you get one part (which part we can determine later) with free dice, but purchased dice gives you all of it (and the only way to get all of it.)

I was thinking you could get to choose which of the two you want.  If I was UK I might want the radar; if I was Germany I might want the rockets.

$50 cash on hand per die would be simple enough.

[Young Grasshopper]

Free R&D Dice Scale

This was Jen’s suggestion back on page #16.

$10 - 49 IPC = 1 Roll
$50 - 89 IPC = 2 Rolls
$90 - 119 IPC = 3 Rolls
$120 - 149 IPC = 4 Rolls
$150 - 224 IPC = 5 Rolls
$225 + IPC = 6 Rolls

This is my Recommendation using her suggestion.

$10 - 49 IPC = 1 Roll
$50 - 89 IPC = 2 Rolls
$90 - 119 IPC = 3 Rolls
$120 - + = 4 Rolls

This is what I edited from her suggestion.

$150 - 224 IPC = 5 Rolls
$225 + IPC = 6 Rolls

Does everyone agree on using my edited free dice scale using Jen’s first suggestion?  :x

[Guest]

That looks fine to me.
Sorry if this was agreed to earlier (I kind of lost track of things in this thread for a while).

[Young Grasshopper]

Qualifications for using the R&D Phase

1. You must be a nation at war.
2. You must be in control of your own capital (eliminates China as a nation that researches)

Does everyone agree?

[Young Grasshopper]

Using the R&D free dice scale

1. The research and development phase should stay where it is in the turn sequence, and the free dice scale should represent all cash on hand.

2. the research and development phase should stay where it is in the turn sequence, and the free dice scale should represent income as shown on the tracker + NOs.

3. the research and development phase should stay where it is in the turn sequence, and the free dice scale should represent income as shown on the tracker + NOs + up to $5 of cash on hand.

4. the research and development phase should be moved to second last in the turn sequence (before collect income), and the free dice scale should represent income as shown on the tracker + NOs.

5. the research and development phase should be moved to second last in the turn sequence (before collect income), and the free dice scale should represent income as shown on the tracker + NOs + up to $5 of cash on hand.

Please pick one, so we know where everybody stands.

[Young Grasshopper]

Using the R&D free dice scale

This is my choice….

5. the research and development phase should be moved to second last in the turn sequence (before collect income), and the free dice scale should represent income as shown on the tracker + NOs + up to $5 of cash on hand.

[Young Grasshopper]

The Development Chart

TBD after the above issues have been addressed and finalized.

Agreed?  :x

[Young Grasshopper]

@Young:

Qualifications for using the R&D Phase

1. You must be a nation at war.
2. You must be in control of your own capital (eliminates China as a nation that researches)

Does everyone agree?

I AGREE!

[Guest]

I agree on the Qualifications and I would also endorse option 5.

To be clear, I believe what is meant by “cash on hand” here is up to 5 IPCs saved from the Purchase & Repair phase; not money earned this turn.  So technically tech development would be done during the Collect Income phase after convoy raids and before IPCs are collected for the current turn?

I also agree that there needs to be quite a bit of fine tuning of the actual tech dev chart, especially the naval ones and mech infantry.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Young:

The Development Chart

TBD after the above issues have been addressed and finalized.

Agreed?  :x

I AGREE!

[Young Grasshopper]

**ATTENTION

Please refer to the previous page in this thread (page #19) for survey questions (beginning at reply #277) that require your input, Thank you.**

Looking for answers to the survey from:

Young Grasshopper
Cmdr Jennifer
JimmyHat
Vance
Special Forces

[Young Grasshopper]

@Vance:

I agree on the Qualifications and I would also endorse option 5.

To be clear, I believe what is meant by “cash on hand” here is up to 5 IPCs saved from the Purchase & Repair phase; not money earned this turn.  So technically tech development would be done during the Collect Income phase after convoy raids and before IPCs are collected for the current turn?

I also agree that there needs to be quite a bit of fine tuning of the actual tech dev chart, especially the naval ones and mech infantry.

You are correct, and I have modified the option to be specific.

Please…. lets not bring up the chart right now. LOL

[Guest]

Agreed.  :wink:

[Young Grasshopper]

Purchasing R&D dice

1. Each additional dice will cost somewhere between $10 and $5 each

2. Additional dice must be purchased using some variation of the 4-6 rule similar to the revised edition

[Young Grasshopper]

@Young:

Purchasing R&D dice

1. Each additional dice will cost somewhere between $10 and $5 each

2. Additional dice must be purchased using some variation of the 4-6 rule similar to the revised edition

#1 for me, at $10 each