Alpha +3 = UK1 Factory in EGY breaks the game?

[Gargantua]

I don’t play for London, it’s almost always an eastern front game, unless the UK is being an idiot.

I find more often than not, going sea-lion is a big mistake.

That said, most of the time London spends it’s efforts trying to keep the Axis out of the middle east - after securing it’s capital.

What I consider, is how I could “beat myself” or someone of similar calibre as the Axis.  I’m just not seeing it.  The economic climb they face is huge, and they suffer detriment immediately.  Despite the focus.  Russia can make short work of the Germans regardless of when they attack.  It’s all just the “delay” game.

The Pacific is a litte more exciting, but with the bulk of US attention going there, as you regularily, and so grandly put Jennifer, how are the japanese supposed to pull it off?

The axis just don’t have enough time to meet the gains they need to meet to stay in the game and win it. IMO.

[Jennifer]

I dont see Russia as that strong.

G4 invade Russia with large stacks in Baltic, E. Poland and Arkhangelsk.
J4 invade Russia with massive forces in Amur and landings in the north.
I4 reinforce German defenses so any attack is a losing proposition for the Russians.

Press in from there.

[Gargantua]

G4 invade Russia with large stacks in Baltic, E. Poland and Arkhangelsk

The Russians can easily have as many men and tanks positioned in or Leningrad or Belorus or wherever during your proposed invasion.  Not to mention the fact that you admittedly are moving your navy to a position of which it will take no less than 2 turns to return from, because you are not proposing the invasion of Leningrad.

Your said “large” stacks, are 3 medium stacks by definition, because they will all face a significant larger stack.

On relatively equal footing, your opponent then pools his resources to make his super stack crush your “large” but really medium stack, and you lose a bunch of units and your edge for nothing.

Medium stacks are the biggest mistake anyone can make in Axis and Allies, especially on the Russian front.

That’s a MAJOR fail.

J4 invade Russia with massive forces in Amur and landings in the north.

I am a big advocate of Japanese invasion of Russian Territory, but why J4?  This is another axis fail.  the average game length dictates that you should invade by J2 at the latest.  Why are you waiting to attack the Russians as soon as your at war with everything else on the board?  What are you thinking here?

I4 reinforce German defenses so any attack is a losing proposition for the Russians.

So instead of building units to conquer the middle east / africa, and secure Italies OWN nation objectives, which require all of it’s income (save for money spent on aircraft)  You propose to build infantry, abandon the bulk stalwart of the Italian game, and mush a few extra infantry to the eastern front?

All three of these suggesstions are utterly insane, and only bolster my point that allies can force the win on a VERY regular basis, with strict playstyle.

[Jennifer]

And yet, I have not had an issue in any game with those three suggestions.

Russia CAN attack, but they will have to do so with a significant portion of their forces and any survivors will be utterly destroyed.

Japan waiting until Round 4 allows them to take out India and China.  Then invade Amur and those pesky 6 Russians can do nothing but flee for their lives.

Italy can do both, hit Africa AND send a moderate force to reinforce the Germans or take a forward position and allow German planes to land.

[Gargantua]

What does Italy’s “moderate” force amount to?

And how can Russia be counter attacked? If they plaster your entire naval landing at Archangelsk?  Oh wait they can’t.

You might get Leningrad for a turn.  But who’s covering your south eastern flank?

So you are saying by J4 They can have Crushed India, AND China?  and be back off the coast of Japan to Annihilate the Russians???

[Jennifer]

Italy only needs 15 IPC to open a forward landing base for the Germans.  You are REALLY over estimating what Italy needs.  And for the record, they start with plenty of units to cover that investment. (3 Infantry, 1 armor, gives them 3 Infantry to lose taking E. Poland, Belarus and Bryansk. For example.  That leaves them an armor to “take” the land and allow 11 German aircraft to land.)

Russia CAN hit one of the German stacks, but not well enough to prevent a counter attack from destroying them.  We’re talking pretty early in the game, not a Russia that got a few rounds of European territories because Germany hit England, we’re talking a strong incursion in three major areas.  Say (for argument’s sake) 10 Infantry, 4 Artillery, 4 Armor, AA Gun.  That forces the Russians to use both of their starting Armor and all three planes.  Sure they will probably win, but with 30 German units in position to counter attack either E. Poland or Baltic States, it’s not a great position for the Russians.  THey could hit Arkhangelsk and probably survive with a few units, ASSUMING, they had enough in Novgorod to begin wiht. (They probably did not.  However, the German incursion there is much smaller, perhaps only 6 Infantry, 3 ARmor, AA Gun requiring 4 transports.)

The idea is to give Russia too much to handle before they are ready.

A Japanese invasion would most likely hit Novosibirsk, Amur, Siberia, Soviet Far East, Timguska, Kazahk and anything that might be blitzable.  Yes, Russia gets 6 useless easily killed Infantry in Mongolia, but really?  That’s the biggest f’ing nerf the allies had, now they cannot get 2 free tanks or 4 free infantry IN POSITION to do some good.

[Stalingradski]

Gargantua - let’s play. I’ll show you exactly how Germany and Italy can beat Russia. I didn’t say will - there are too many variables in the game.

Maybe you’ve noticed that playtesters the world 'round have not come to the same conclusions you have? Maybe… just maybe… you haven’t played against opponents capable of giving Russia a run for their money?

Look back a few threads (German Opening) at my plan for Barbarossa, and tell me in as much detail how you’d counter it, if you’re not willing to play me.

Like it or not, this game is pretty balanced.

[Gargantua]

Do you have abattlemap? with the alpha + 3 setup?  If you do please start a game, and PM me the URL.

You’ll see what I’m talking about.

[Stalingradski]

I’m in! And thanks.

I’ll start a game later tonight - wife and daughter just came home. We’re going to a wedding tomorrow (Infrastucture from the Harris site and this site - his time came!), so I won’t have much time til Sunday and thereafter.

It’ll be good for me to get a different perspective, and see different Russia play.

[Gargantua]

I look forward to battling Herr General.

Enjoy the pregame festivities! :P

[Kobu]

@Stalingradski:

Gargantua - let’s play. I’ll show you exactly how Germany and Italy can beat Russia. I didn’t say will - there are too many variables in the game.

Maybe you’ve noticed that playtesters the world 'round have not come to the same conclusions you have? Maybe… just maybe… you haven’t played against opponents capable of giving Russia a run for their money?

Look back a few threads (German Opening) at my plan for Barbarossa, and tell me in as much detail how you’d counter it, if you’re not willing to play me.

Like it or not, this game is pretty balanced.

What playtesters are you talking about? We are the playtesters.

[Jennifer]

@Kobu:

@Stalingradski:

Gargantua - let’s play. I’ll show you exactly how Germany and Italy can beat Russia. I didn’t say will - there are too many variables in the game.

Maybe you’ve noticed that playtesters the world 'round have not come to the same conclusions you have? Maybe… just maybe… you haven’t played against opponents capable of giving Russia a run for their money?

Look back a few threads (German Opening) at my plan for Barbarossa, and tell me in as much detail how you’d counter it, if you’re not willing to play me.

Like it or not, this game is pretty balanced.

What playtesters are you talking about? We are the playtesters.

I think he is talking about Larry’s friends who play with him over a table.

[Gargantua]

I think he is talking about Larry’s friends who play with him over a table.

Wow that’s dirty Jen…

[Stalingradski]

Kobu - fair enough point, but I think there’s more than the eight or so people who regularly troll these sites playtesting…  :)

Thousands of people own and play the game, and most of them aren’t here.

[Gargantua]

Yea, and most of them arent playing Alpha + anything…

[Stalingradski]

Fair enough, sir.

[Jennifer]

Mantle, there are quite a bit of increases to the Axis that make Russia easier.

1)  No more 12 IPC if Japan attacks.
2)  What Russia does get if Japan attacks is easily crushed under the jack-boot of Japanese imperailism
3)  No more sea lion means no more need to build transports.
4)  Submarines do more convoy damage now, reduced naval expenditures.
5)  Lots of free AA Guns.  Does Russia lose planes (and htey will eventually) or do they lose Armor (which they have to lose instead of planes) or do they retreat? 
5.1) If they retreat, Germany makes more, Russia earns less.
5.2) If they lose planes, Germany has less defense to break, Russia can ill afford to replace planes, Germany has to lose an awful lot of planes to need to replace them, and if they find they do need to replace them, they earn significantly more and can afford it.
5.3) Likewise arguement for armor.  Russia can not afford to lose 1 or 2 armor each round retaking land.  Germany can.

How does Russia respond to:

6 Infantry, 2 Armor in Arkhangelsk
10 Infantry, 3 Artillery, 3 Armor, AA Gun in Baltic States
10 Infantry, 3 Artillery, 3 Armor, AA Gun in N. Ukraine
20 Infantry, 5 Artillery, 6 Armor, 5 FIghters, 5 Tactical Bombers, Strategic Bomber, AA Gun in E. Poland
2 Infantry in Belarus

?

They cannot.  They do not have enough firepower to bring to bear on all those points.  Therefore, they have to choose and whatever they choose, they will lose more, in proportion to what they can build, than Germany will.  With moderate investment by the Italians, the forward German headquarters can inch forward territory by territory while the Russians deplete themselvess against moderate stacks of German forces, or if they retreat, the Germans can surround Moscow faster, thus, reducing the number of units defending it.

Japan, following up, can sap the strength from the East.

[soldaatvanoranje]

If Italy’s weakness is your worry, why not get their big brother involved in the Med?

I guess Italy would be massively helped by either a German Southern France or German Balkan with a minor IC putting some warships into the Med.

[Stalingradski]

A German Minor IC and Airbase in Greece is very, very nice… I’ve done it in my last two Alpha 2 games. Once the Allies get powerful around the Eastern Med, Italy and Germany can tuck into SZ97, with the cover of six Axis aircraft of your choice. A German Sub or Destroyer per round (or as needed) in the Med becomes a real thorn for the good guys.

[Guest]

I notice that a strategic bomber stationed in Greece could hit a Egypt or Iraq.  It could also hit Stalingrad for that matter.  Persia is out of range though.