IS Kill Japan first viable

[AlphaAeffchen]

Hi guys,

I Play A&A for over fifteen yeras now. My playgroup only plays Global 40 second Edition since it wa released because ist the best A&A ever (we only play with lowluck rules and no bidding).

I have an upcoming game next weekend. I will play the allies (i play them alone so i have the full control). I have a huge problem.

The Axis always attacks the USA on turn 1 in hawai and the philipines. My question is do ich have to react with kill Japan first or should i buy for the Atlantic. The other problem is sometimes they combine it with sea Lion. So i have do buy defensive with England which Wngalnd inefficient (mainly inf first and second round).

Last time i tried Grasshopers spain beachhead strat. It didnt work because Japan got too big and totally out of control. And Germany could hold their homelands and italy long enough. Can someone help me how to react when Japan does a first round attack in the seazone at hawai.

Also i need advise how should i play kill Japan first, because if the japanese player is smart he plays very defensive and he can do also a land offensive (its possible even if you play kill Japan fisrt).

Any suggestions?

[Ozymandiac]

@ShadowHAwk:

Dont try to kill japan as US go for their navy and put some subs in SZ6 to convoy him.

Without their navy Anzac and UK-Pac can easy clear out the rest as japan isnt making that much money and they are both in the 20’s

That should give US freedom to go after germany.

I would say that’s the very definition of KJF.

[AlphaAeffchen]

To kill the Navy of Japan is the definition of Kill Japan first. Can someone pls give me detailed answers how i react to an attack from japan first round in the seazone of Hawaii. Also its not easy to kill Japans navy when they buy ships which they easily can. Especially when they do a turn 1 attack in the swazone of Hawaii……

[AlphaAeffchen]

@ShadowHawk,

Ok they wipe out the complete American fleet at Hawaii. They are there with 2 Carriers fully loaded with fighters. One battleship, one submarine, 2 destoyes, 1 cruiser and one Transport.

Ohh they only loose planes which Japan can totally afford because they move their planes from Japan and other isles or the other carrier in tactical movement to refill the carriesrs at hawaii.

An american atttack on this flleet is suicide and gives america nothing even if they can sink some ships there is nothing left from the USA which is a Desaster for them in the pacific, because it takes to much time to rebuild the fleet.

Also I thin they conquer Hawaii first turn (but definetly 2nd turn) but im not sure because its 3 months ago….

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

It should be virtually impossible to capture Hawaii on J1.  The Americans can have 2 infantry and 2 fighters to defend against an infantry and a tank. If you lose this <1% battle than just start over: the dice are not in your favor.  If Japan stacks everything in SZ26, they can’t be counter attacked.  Otherwise you have a chance to trade even value of units.  For the Allies, an even exchange is a win since you are out-earning the Axis.

There are times when you can’t push back the Axis fleet for the first couple of rounds.  The Allies can land a large number of planes on the Island.  You can get 3 additional American + 3 ANZAC planes there on the first round.  Yes, this can be defeated if Japan dedicates all of there efforts to conquering Hawaii.  Meanwhile China will be nearly impossible to control because of the combined efforts with India.  The economy of UK Pacific can easily reach 20+ if Japan is focusing a majority of their efforts on Hawaii.  Add in a potential 12 PU for China and those two nations can hold their own on mainland Asia.  If Japan can’t control Mainland Asia and control the Money Islands, they will lose the economic battle.  The country starts with 26 PUs and needs to quickly get that up to the 60-70 range if the Axis is going to win.

This is why most Axis players don’t dedicate much, if any, effort to capture Hawaii in the early stages of the game.  Some will feign an attack to force the US to retreat their fleet to safer waters.  Others will sink the fleet at Pearl Harbor and retreat back to Japanese waters on J2.  A majority just focus on targets nearer to Mainland Asia where they can use the massive airforce to threaten Allied fleets along with the flexibility to target land armies.

[WILD BILL]

@AlphaAeffchen:

@ShadowHawk,

Ok they wipe out the complete American fleet at Hawaii. They are there with 2 Carriers fully loaded with fighters. One battleship, one submarine, 2 destoyes, 1 cruiser and one Transport.

Ohh they only loose planes which Japan can totally afford because they move their planes from Japan and other isles or the other carrier in tactical movement to refill the carriesrs at hawaii.

An american atttack on this flleet is suicide and gives america nothing even if they can sink some ships there is nothing left from the USA which is a Desaster for them in the pacific, because it takes to much time to rebuild the fleet.

Also I thin they conquer Hawaii first turn (but definetly 2nd turn) but im not sure because its 3 months ago….

Ok like Arthur said the Japanese aren’t taking Hawaii J1, and that works to your advantage. If they put that fleet in sz26 (1ss, 2dd, 1ca, 1bb 2cv, 4ftr) I would have to hit it with everything the US has. You have 1dd, 1ca, 1 bb, 1cv, 5ftrs, 1tac, and a bmr that can hit it. Yea you have crappy odds, but its not a fight to the finish, you’re only looking to go a couple rounds. The thing is to hit him, and then retreat your air, and maybe a damaged bb (land on Hawaii), and then let the Anz finish him off with 3ftrs, and a cruiser (planes land on Hawaii). The Japanese can only absorb so many hits before it starts to hurt, and if they take a hit on a carrier you can retreat with the US and watch his planes crash into the sea because they have no place to land because he didn’t take Hawaii (less for the ANZ to deal with).

The last thing that the Japanese want to do is start buying expensive ships, and that is what the US lives for. Once you take out the biggest part of the Japanese navy it should be all down hill from there.

What we see more often is the Japanese hit the Pearl fleet, and NCM the carriers, bb and ca to Wake, but they make sure that a Japanese dd survives the attack on sz26 to block out the US sz10 fleet from hitting the Wake fleet.

[AlphaAeffchen]

Hey guys,

thx for your answers. I will try your strategy and attack the japanese fleet. I just have one more question should i go for Kill Japan first in this Scenario. Or should i invest my money in the Atlantic? The upcoming rounds?

[WILD BILL]

I 100% agree with Shadow that mutual destruction is a win for the allies (even though you might lose more in IPC value). You need to be committed with the US, and be willing to go 2 rounds then re-evaluate. The first round you will be killing off the Japanese support ships, and dinging the BB. It’s the 2nd round of combat that will force the Japanese to make some tough decisions, and open up the door to continue the attack, or leave it for the Anzac to finish it. Keep in mind the Anz only have 4 units, and they all attack at 3.

Even if the Japanese manage to keep a carrier or battle ship alive they are severely handicapped the rest of the game. I also agree that you should probably build on the Pac side for a turn or two to gain control before switching to the Euro side. UK should probably prepare as if a Sea Lion is on the table too. Once the axis get hit hard on the Pac side, they may feel that risking Sea Lion is a good option to re-gain the advantage (especially when you consider your post that says that’s what they like to do).

Let us know how it goes, and make sure you don’t tip him off. Post a picture of the Japanese players face when you set-up your counter attack on sz26 and he realizes that he is screwed (especially once you point out the 1-2 punch w/Anz)
WB

[Young Grasshopper]

I also wonder how much the low luck system you’re using is effecting your games… aggression can be tamed with uncertainty.

[seancb]

Bombers tend to send the remainder of the Japanese fleet where it belongs on rd 2. Also if they run you can simply turn them around to Germany for the real fun party.

[AlphaAeffchen]

Hi guys,

many many thx for your help. We play saturdaynight. I drive to my hometown tommorow by train. I will post on tuesday how it worked. By the way they really like to combine this japanese attack with sealion. I always buy mainly inf for Uk the first two rounds perhaps one fighter…. Again many thx for your help. I play axis and allies so long but i still have  to learn so much  :-D

[seancb]

Agree with Shadow. Don’t deviate from inf and fighter for UK1. You can go all infantry and one arty if you want. Usually the Sea Lion goes to Scotland first so make sure you move all units to London. You will have a good idea if Sea Lion is coming. If he doesn’t show it, I do Taranto. The only German open (just about every time now) is to not buy any units on the first turn. This can confuse and stifle just about any Allied player and leaves your options completely open.

[simon33]

Make sure you buy a third fighter for Calcutta UK1 and leave 3 fighters there, assuming two bombers are in position to hit it which they should be. I also recommend a tank.

I’ve just played a couple of games against Omega1759 who has a very aggressive assist China as Russia strategy - runs hard as into China for a few turns to slow Japan. Worked pretty well. I thought I had an assist China philosophy in Global 1940 until I played him!

Recently, I’ve been scrambling to SZ111 and SZ110 usually unless it is really unfavourable. Normally, scrambling results in a reduction in TUV loss and as others point out, TUV parity is generally a victory for Allies.

Low luck makes Taranto less of a gamble for the UK so it likely to be worth while even if all the London and Scottish fighters are dead after a scramble. Don’t forget to buy 6inf 1ftr if you do this or Sea Lion will be too easy.

J1 DOW allows freedom in the Atlantic so I’d be inclined to threaten Norway US3 via Iceland with the starting TT if possible, which it should be.

[simon33]

As others have said though, it depends a lot on what they’ve left in SZ26. Could actually be 3CVs as well as the Cruiser, BB, 3DDs and maybe a sub. If that happens, it might be better to give up on Hawaii for a few rounds. You can fly the planes to Queensland to help in the money islands, India and China battles.

[WILD BILL]

Yea, if they have all 3 carriers in sz26 all bets are off (need to go def). If that is the case though you will probably still be holding the Phil Isl (w/navy sunk), and can save the Phil ftr (fly to Queensland or Burma?)

[AlphaAeffchen]

Hi,

so here is my Report: Well I won both games  :-D.

1 game: They attacked the seazone of Hawai. I did your counterattack and they immideatley surrendered (Japan has no chance when half of their fleet is destroyed).

2 game: Japan played more defensive. Germany went for a sealion in round 4. I made Germany cost this attack so much that they never really could get back to old strength. The USA  went full atlantic and shiped everey round 5 infantry and tanks (about 10units). We didnt finish that game but the axis players surrendered because they saw that they couldnt hold the waves anymore. Also russia was far from beeing captured (Japan was in russian territory but alone no thread for russia). Thx for your help. We play next time at christmas (this time i will play the axis).

[simon33]

Congrats. Allies are said to be almost impossible to win with, without a bid and even more on low luck.

I think USA helping in the Atlantic is really important so long as they do enough to avoid losing in the Pacific.

[Omega1759]

@simon33:

Make sure you buy a third fighter for Calcutta UK1 and leave 3 fighters there, assuming two bombers are in position to hit it which they should be. I also recommend a tank.

I’ve just played a couple of games against Omega1759 who has a very aggressive assist China as Russia strategy - runs hard as into China for a few turns to slow Japan. Worked pretty well. I thought I had an assist China philosophy in Global 1940 until I played him!

Recently, I’ve been scrambling to SZ111 and SZ110 usually unless it is really unfavourable. Normally, scrambling results in a reduction in TUV loss and as others point out, TUV parity is generally a victory for Allies.

Low luck makes Taranto less of a gamble for the UK so it likely to be worth while even if all the London and Scottish fighters are dead after a scramble. Don’t forget to buy 6inf 1ftr if you do this or Sea Lion will be too easy.

J1 DOW allows freedom in the Atlantic so I’d be inclined to threaten Norway US3 via Iceland with the starting TT if possible, which it should be.

:-D

Don’t forget the UK1 DOW and aggressive offensive play with them (this gets the US out of the war for a while which is unfortunate but the killed Japanese units and the bonus UK Pacific/Anzac is worth it). Basically the goal is throw so many punches at Japan that their land forces collapse (meanwhile distracting them from taking the DEI). By the time they are ready to go after the DEI, Anzac will have many planes and the US will be into the war. At that point, the Japanese player has to choose between DEI and leaving sea zone 6 unprotected.

On land, China will be a viable force.

It’s a high risk / high reward strategy, it’s hard for Japan to deal with but Japan can be extremely resilient.

Once Japan is slowed down, UK Pacific can shift pretty promptly to reinforce the Middle East and Russia. Russia can fall back and survive but leaving Caucasus, Stalingrad uncontested is not an option.

Meanwhile, the US needs to force Japan to spend some on naval build (build subs that Japan needs to hunt down, be in a position to kill the destroyers), but should be able to form a pretty large Atlantic fleet to put pressure on Germany.

If Japan’s economy isn’t taking off, the US will need to spend a lot less in later rounds and Russia gets its dividend that way.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Without a bid, I think that a UK1 DOW is risky unless Japan does a non-traditional set of moves on round 1.  If Japan has his 3 transports unloading ground units on Kwangsi, those forces plus the 21-strong air force can annihilate anything the Allies can assemble in Yunnan.  I see a +50 TUV swing when I ran a typical calculation.  Japan will be free from worries of a US counterattack for a while, and can continue to collect the 10 PU bonus for a couple more rounds.  That just seems to be too much of a benefit.

If Japan did not drop off six units in Kwangsi on J1, a UK1 DOW is much more viable.  Also, the strategy could work out if you used a bid to strongly reinforce Mainland Asia with a bunch of infantry.

[Omega1759]

@Arthur:

Without a bid, I think that a UK1 DOW is risky unless Japan does a non-traditional set of moves on round 1.  If Japan has his 3 transports unloading ground units on Kwangsi, those forces plus the 21-strong air force can annihilate anything the Allies can assemble in Yunnan.  I see a +50 TUV swing when I ran a typical calculation.  Japan will be free from worries of a US counterattack for a while, and can continue to collect the 10 PU bonus for a couple more rounds.  That just seems to be too much of a benefit.

If Japan did not drop off six units in Kwangsi on J1, a UK1 DOW is much more viable.  Also, the strategy could work out if you used a bid to strongly reinforce Mainland Asia with a bunch of infantry.

Absolutely! Although you don’t necessarily need to hold Yunnan for this strategy to be successful (it definitely helps), you just need to contest it.